power steering pump no bleed screw 56 Series 62?

[hawkfan]

I rebuilt my power steering pump due to it whining and the rebuild corrected that issue.  I filled the pump and hoses with trans fluid.  After following the directions in the manual on how to bleed, is says "Crack ope air bleed screw on housing side tower".  My PS doesnt have this bleed screw.  I don't have power steering now so I believe I'm air bound.
Any suggestions on how to bleed the system that doesnt have a bleed screw?

Thanks
Brian

[J. Gomez]

I rebuilt my power steering pump due to it whining and the rebuild corrected that issue.  I filled the pump and hoses with trans fluid.  After following the directions in the manual on how to bleed, is says "Crack ope air bleed screw on housing side tower".  My PS doesnt have this bleed screw.  I don't have power steering now so I believe I'm air bound.
Any suggestions on how to bleed the system that doesnt have a bleed screw?

Thanks
Brian

Brian,

Congrats you have found one of the many errors on the '56 Service Manual. 

You are correct there are no bleeding screws on either the P/S pump or the steering box. The best option to remove any trap air on the system is to skip step 2 and continue with the next steps.

One easy way I have found is to move the steering wheel to full end-to-end (wheel off ground engine off) and keep the tank full, this way the steering box will pull the fluid in and vent the air. You can repeat the same steps on section 2 to fully bleed the system.

HTH

Good luck..!

[PHIL WHYTE CLC 14192]

On the old mid-century Cadillac forum we solved the problem of the rebuild kits and the non functioning power steering pump. One of the big O rings in the kit is thicker than the original and you will have no power steering if you use that O ring no matter how much you bleed the system. Phil

[hawkfan]

I was just thinking.  Would it make a difference if I tried to all of bleeding sequence of the system with the power steering reservoir cover bolted tight down in place?  I'm thinking the air has no place to escape?
Thoughts?

Thanks
Brian

[J. Gomez]

I was just thinking.  Would it make a difference if I tried to all of bleeding sequence of the system with the power steering reservoir cover bolted tight down in place?  I'm thinking the air has no place to escape?
Thoughts?

Thanks
Brian

Brian,

Best if the reservoir cover is off while you do the process, "BUT" not while the engine running else you will be cleaning a big mess. You can just leave the cover lose a bit with the bolt on if you need to run the engine.

On the old mid-century Cadillac forum we solved the problem of the rebuild kits and the non functioning power steering pump. One of the big O rings in the kit is thicker than the original and you will have no power steering if you use that O ring no matter how much you bleed the system. Phil

Oh yes I totally forgot about the rebuilt kit issue having just one tick "O" ring, thanks Phil for the brain cell nudge.   

[Lexi]

I once had a power steering rebuilder advise that you can remove the lid while running but perhaps that was only with a reduced volume in the reservoir,  Probably best to take Jose's advice and leave loosely on, just in case The proper securing hardware to the fluid reservoir's lid does have a small air bleed hole in it though. See pics for a '56 saginaw pump from my car and its external vent. So there should be a way for air to get out. If it were me I would run it then loosen and see what I could get away with while following the shop manual's instructions, (cranking wheel back and forth while elevated). Clay/Lexi

Edit: Safety note, I believe transmission fluid is flammable, (i.e. our power steering fluid), so keep from getting it on your exhaust manifold. If your engine is up to operating temperature and it hits that manifold it could ignite. I had my 1956 CDV some 40 years ago go up in flames when transmission fluid backed up out of the dip tube onto the manifold and ignited. Nearby wire insulation melted with massive short circuiting as a result. My car went up in flames while I was driving her. Took me all summer to repair the damage and a wiring harness from a scrapper.

[hawkfan]

Thanks for the input.  What if by doing the bleeding process and turning the wheels with the car on blocks doesn't solve the issue?  Is there another option to try?  Is there a chance that when I rebuilt it I may have put a part on incorrectly?  I took a bunch of pics so I believe I reassembled it correctly but it possible I made a mistake.

Thanks
Brian

[PHIL WHYTE CLC 14192]

Brian, please see my comment above about the kits having the wrong O ring.

[hawkfan]

The only o-rings on my pump are on the faces of each end housings.  Are those the o-rings that your talking about?  They are pretty flattened out.  The internal drive portion didnt make any o-rings.  It is just a shaft with a bearing on each end and the pump portion that has these metal inserts that move in and out in an eliptic housing to create the flow.
Maybe the PS pump I have is not original?

[fishnjim]

since you didn't do the steering gear, then that should be full, if you didn't let hoses drain, but if air got in it'll take some bleeding too.
You can turn the pump pulley by hand with the belt off.   It should turn easy, just make sure it's turning the right direction or connect a brake bleeder to the return line and pull the fluid through while topping up.   
I just let mine sit and monitored the level before I started it back up.  It would go down an inch every day for a while, no leaks.  Once level was stable then I did the full wheel turns method with it running.   
The gaskets that were supplied the first time, were faulty, and it was leaking below the reservoir(on to manifold).   Since I could not find the proper ones, I had to make from sheet rubber of the right thickness.   I found an old Saginaw catalog with thw original rebuild kit pictured.
Yes, you can put parts in backward but not likely in the pump.  I did it after I changed the gaskets and had to do over.   
It only takes one vane stuck to kill the whole deal.   I'm still struggling with mine after rebuild, so don't expect necessarily an easy go.   The kit parts are just not "good"(my opinion).   I have not found any that supply new "vanes", which used to come with them. That's how I got in this current fuel mess.  Mine worked, then quit on road test.   I was setting up to test the pump pressure, to see what unit was involved, when the fuel pump went again, so it's still sitting but today it comes off the jack stands and gets fired up.   You should have around 7-800 psig from the pump.  You need a hydraulic tester to do this.
You can bench test the pumps, if you have a set-up but most don't need or want that expense for one pump.
Trans fluid is called for and that's "combustible" not "flammable", by definition. ie, it'll burn but requires a higher ignition temperature.   Were as gasoline is a "flammable".   DOT determines classification.
The kit o-ring issue I think is cleared, as they only supply two identical size now.  No one couls tell me the correct size, other than it was "thicker".   They're something like 3/32".   That's why I decided to test the pressure to make sure the pump was performing to spec.

[J. Gomez]

The only o-rings on my pump are on the faces of each end housings.  Are those the o-rings that your talking about?  They are pretty flattened out.  The internal drive portion didnt make any o-rings.  It is just a shaft with a bearing on each end and the pump portion that has these metal inserts that move in and out in an eliptic housing to create the flow.
Maybe the PS pump I have is not original?

Brian,

Sorry my desk was a total mess with electronic gear yesterday so I had to shuffle my keyboard around while replying to your post and my limited data on my comments.   

Yes, Clay corrected me that there is a hole on the lid with a groove washer to vent the P/S.

The only "O" rings are on both the front body and rear cover P/S pump to seal the pump ring.

The rebuilt kits we are referring came with two different size (thickness) "O" rings the smaller one was for the later Saginaw pumps. Installing the wrong "O" rings (thicker ones) will increase the gap between the pump ring and body and cover causing the flow control valve to stay open and thus not building the pressure.

I'm attaching a tech doc that I compile when I rebuilt both of my P/S a few year back, hope this will help you.

It only takes one vane stuck to kill the whole deal.   I'm still struggling with mine after rebuild, so don't expect necessarily an easy go.   The kit parts are just not "good"(my opinion).   I have not found any that supply new "vanes", which used to come with them.

Jim,

The MPL (up to '59) shows two kits one is the tank gasket kit 18.2098 and the pump repair kit 18.2053 which just included the rotor and vanes, so the gasket kit did not have the vanes and the repair kit did not have the gaskets.   

[hawkfan]

Thanks J. Gomez for the build sheet.   I took the pump back apart and I may have found the issue.  The "Vanes" may have been reinstalled incorrectly.  Now I noticed one edge of the vanes has a radius'd edge and the opposite edge is more of a sharp corner.  The opposite end of the vane has squared corners.  I had the vanes installed some with the radius up and some with the radius installed towards the rotor.
I assume the squared corner edge goes to the center of the rotor and the rounded edge surface goes to the pumping action side.  Me question is:  Does the rounded corner face towards the direction of the rotation or the opposite of the rotation or does it even matter?

Thanks
Brian

[J. Gomez]

quote author=hawkfan link=topic=164929.msg496051#msg496051 date=1623600792]
Thanks J. Gomez for the build sheet.   I took the pump back apart and I may have found the issue.  The "Vanes" may have been reinstalled incorrectly.  Now I noticed one edge of the vanes has a radius'd edge and the opposite edge is more of a sharp corner.  The opposite end of the vane has squared corners.  I had the vanes installed some with the radius up and some with the radius installed towards the rotor.
I assume the squared corner edge goes to the center of the rotor and the rounded edge surface goes to the pumping action side.  Me question is:  Does the rounded corner face towards the direction of the rotation or the opposite of the rotation or does it even matter?

Thanks
Brian
[/quote]

Brian,

Not a problem..!

Well there you go having the vanes with the flat surface facing the pump ring the pump did not built the pressure, hope it did not cause any damage to the ring wall.    You can take a look at the ring wall to make sure there is no sharp edges before putting everything back.

Yes, the flat edge on the vanes will go inside the rotor and the rounded edges will face the outside towards the pump ring wall.

If I recall the round edge on the vanes are the same on either direction, but you can see if that is the case when you place the pump ring with the rotor and hand rotate the shaft.

Just as FYI the rotation of the pump should be stencil on the side of the pump ring, you can see the arrow on your last picture.

Good luck..!

[hawkfan]

OK I'm back in business!!!  Two things.  I reinstalled the vanes with the rounded corner facing the direction of rotation.  My housing has a casted arrow on the side of the rotor ring.  Also.  My common sense back fired on me on the assembly of the flow control valve  which I installed backwards!  My common sense told me the end with the hex head should go into the housing.  Big mistake!  Reversed the control valve and corrected the vanes and all is well!
The assembly drawing was a huge help!!!!

Thanks
Brian