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1976 Timing Chain and Water Pump

Started by cadillac91, July 07, 2021, 07:34:51 PM

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cadillac91

1976 Cadillac - Three Questions:
1.  What is the best brand timing chain kit to buy?
2.  What is the best brand water pump to buy?
3.  Will I have trouble getting the studs out of the engine for the water pump and timing chain?  I don't want to break them off.

Thank You for your advice!

carlhungness

  Hi: Sounds as though you might want to have someone who has experience in
changing a timing chain at your side while you do the job. There are no studs, only bolts to remove the parts you need and it'd be a rare circumstance one of them snaps off. There are a couple of bolts in the water pump that may have been exposed to water so they'll be rusty and if you haven't ever removed any bolts from an engine, you may want to get some assistance.
   Timing chain brand isn't going to mean much, I've never heard of a new one failing.
   Swapping the timing chain is going to take some knowledge of where to 'set' the crankshaft when you go to remove the timing gears as all the dots have to line up, and if you don't know what I'm referring to get on YouTube and punch in the question of how to change a timing chain.
   Changing the timing chain isn't exactly a major operation, but it is one that will cause you lots of headaches if you get the plot 'out of time' so don't remove the gears/chain until you know precisely what you are doing and the YouTube videos will give you a pretty quick education.

Scot Minesinger

I agree with everything the first poster wrote.

I have replaced about 7 timing chains on the 472/500 block, the first time was just as successful as the last, because I followed the factory shop manual very carefully.  If you are patient and read, plus of course being somewhat mechanically inclined it should be fine.

As a word of caution, do not over-tighten the 3 or 4 1/4" bolts (watch inch-ponds, foot pounds torque specs), stripping female engine cover threads is a common mistake that is a pain to correct.  Frankly it never even came close to happening for me because I read and followed FSM directions, but have read about it numerous times.

The most unfamiliar and difficult part of the job is removing the hub off the crankshaft, which really only can be done easily with a 9/16" fine thread rod tool that will screw into the end of the crank shaft to both pull and press back on the hub.  A standard puller is unlikely to work and you will still need a means to press it back on, if you are thinking of hammering it back on - then hire someone to do this job.  You can buy the tool (see Cadillac shop manual) or make one (buy 9/16" threaded rod, nuts and washers from "Fastenal").  Also, be sure and carefully remove the existing gaskets, this can take hours.

If you do not want to remove the oil pan, OK there is a way around that.  The only way to remove an oil pan in the Eldorado is to pull the engine, so I get it, use the work around.  On the RWD the only tough thing is removing the exhaust "Y" pipe to remove the pan.  When the pan is off, now is the time to replace that leaking rear main seal.

There will be many "might as wells" along the way.  I would do this job during the winter "non-driving" classics season.

Good luck and we will be here for you if needed.
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

"Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364

For the timing set I would recommend CLOYES 93639X3 {#93139} Race Billet, as it is far superior to the standard sets and you only want to do this once.
As far as a water pump is concerned I have found that the Flow Kooler (brand) is well worth the money.  Better low speed flow and pressure.
As has been mentioned above, follow the factory service manual ABSOLUTELY and you can't go wrong. Again, the torque on the 5 small bolts that go into the timing cover from the water pump are listed in INCH POUNDS.
Greg Surfas
Cadillac Kid-Greg Surfas
Director Modified Chapter CLC
CLC #15364
66 Coupe deVille (now gone to the UK)
72 Eldo Cpe  (now cruising the sands in Quatar)
73 Coupe deVille
75 Coupe deElegance
76 Coupe deVille
79 Coupe de ville with "Paris" (pick up) option and 472 motor
514 inch motor now in '73-

carlhungness

How many inch pounds on the water pump bolts, don't have a manual yet. Good advice, appreciated. Will keep note of the brands you mentioned too.

TJ Hopland

I also vote for Cloyes and have not had a bad experience with flowkooler.

I think there are 3 different size bolts in the water pump and they all have different torques.  What catches some people is most everything on that torque page is given in foot pounds including 2 of the 3 water pump bolts but the 3 small bolts we are all talking about are given in inch pounds so if your brain is kinda on auto pilot and not really thinking you could just move on down the chart and try and crank those poor little things that are just threaded into the 'tin' cover well past even what lug nuts get.

After being burnt more than once on those bolts anytime I have a timing cover off one of these or an olds I weld nuts to the inside of the cover for those bolts.   Gives them a lot more to grab onto and you can't see it from the outside so no points lost if you are an original judge sort of person.  Its also nice that its hidden if you are not a good welder.

The trick if you don't want to remove the pan is to drive the locating pins into the block so you can lift the timing cover off the lip of the oil pan.   Once you get the cover off you then have to drive the pins the rest of the way through the block without dropping them in the pan so you can drive them back in after the cover is re installed.   

On and Eldorado you have to separate the engine and trans which means one of the 2 or both has to come out of the car to drop the pan.   The RWD cars the pan can come off but as noted the exhaust can be fun.     The reason you want to remove the pan other than it increases your chances of a leak free install is the oil pickup tube is likely packed full of the plastic from the cam sprocket and the valve guide seals.
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

The Tassie Devil(le)

When I did the Cam Gear fix on my '72 Eldorado, I removed the Sump, and there was one or two pieces plastic gear teeth visible in the bottom of the pan, BUT, the oil Pickup screen was different.

This was tightly packed within the confines of the housing, and took hours to get each and every piece out.

Looking back at these pictures, it was a wonder that the engine ran so well, and that the oil pressure was still reasonable.

So, I would recommend removing the sump and cleaning it, and the oil pump pickup if you find any pieces missing from the Cam Gear.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe