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Pictures Needed! 1957 Dual Quad Ignition Coil Bracket

Started by Dan S, July 20, 2021, 10:53:23 AM

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Dan S

I would like to know if anyone has pictures (or could sell me one) of the firewall mounted ignition coil bracket that I believe is used for the '57-'58 eldorado dual quad engines. I am in need of one but have been unsuccessful trying to buy one and none of my sources have pictures. I have only been able to find some engine bay pictures online that show a partial view. I can make one if I have some good photos of the bracket and also the location on the firewall.

fishnjim

Several pix online - just google.
However, I see two versions, one mounts left one right, behind the air cleaner.   Refer to the athenticity manual for correctness.   Looks like just a common coil flush mount strap.
Dave "eldo" King would know or may have...     

Roger Zimmermann

Maybe this picture can help. The coil is attached to a bracket at the firewall. Sorry, I don't have a better picture; who would ask such trivial question?!
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Dan S

Your picture is the Brougham. The eldorado mounts in a similar place behind the air cleaner on the firewall, but is a different bracket. It is a two piece ignition coil mount containing the standard coil clamp bolted to what looks like an "L" shaped bracket. I have the coil clamp as that is a pretty standard part. If needed I will go by the few pictures I can find and just make a correct-looking "L" bracket, as it is behind the air cleaner and difficult to see once everything is assembled. Most of the pictures online are Broughams.

Dan S

As far as who would ask such a trivial question, the answer is someone who leaves no bolt unturned. This car is an extremely well detailed restoration.

fishnjim

I don't know if this one is "right" but available.   Looks like the regular old coil mount with two holes was used?   Another similar one showed up as "universal".
https://www.autopartsway.com/partlist.cfm?cadillac/1957/eldorado/allsmd/allen/allb/ignition/brackets,-flanges-and-hangers/ignition-coil-mounting-bracket/pagenum1/tabs

Another way to skin this cat, the coil maker would most likely supply the mounting brackets, so look in an ignition catalogue from the period and the bracket might be listed/pictured with the coil.  I can't look for several days to see what I got.   Unfortunately, these cars are rare, many survivors($$$$) and that makes finding parts/parts cars ridiculous.   The ACDelco archive is not accessible anymore, last I knew.   There should be some unfilled holes on your firewall for the bracket, so that's also a clue of what to look for.   
I think there's a separate shop manual for the eldo, so it might be shown in there.
I assume you ran the list of usual restorers asking for that part...
Otherwise, it's hit or miss until someone lists one.   

Roger Zimmermann

Quote from: Dan S on July 20, 2021, 02:17:15 PM
Your picture is the Brougham. The eldorado mounts in a similar place behind the air cleaner on the firewall, but is a different bracket.
This is correct, the picture is from my Brougham. The bracket for the "regular" '57 Eldo models has a different part number, therefore you are right, this is not the same bracket.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Paul Tesone

Will these help ? P tesone CLC#6876

Dan S

Quote from: fishnjim on July 20, 2021, 08:45:46 PM
I don't know if this one is "right" but available.   Looks like the regular old coil mount with two holes was used?   Another similar one showed up as "universal".
https://www.autopartsway.com/partlist.cfm?cadillac/1957/eldorado/allsmd/allen/allb/ignition/brackets,-flanges-and-hangers/ignition-coil-mounting-bracket/pagenum1/tabs

Another way to skin this cat, the coil maker would most likely supply the mounting brackets, so look in an ignition catalogue from the period and the bracket might be listed/pictured with the coil.  I can't look for several days to see what I got.   Unfortunately, these cars are rare, many survivors($$$$) and that makes finding parts/parts cars ridiculous.   The ACDelco archive is not accessible anymore, last I knew.   There should be some unfilled holes on your firewall for the bracket, so that's also a clue of what to look for.   
I think there's a separate shop manual for the eldo, so it might be shown in there.
I assume you ran the list of usual restorers asking for that part...
Otherwise, it's hit or miss until someone lists one.

Thank you. Yes I have checked with my parts sources already, which are most of the major Cadillac restoration suppliers and anyone else I can find through places like Hemmings.

The link you sent is the coil "clamp" which I already have. At this point I am just ready to fabricate something since it is nearly impossible to see behind the air cleaner, and from the pictures I have seen, the bracket does not look complex. I have shop manual and parts catalogs and haven't found any pics or diagrams.

Dan S

Quote from: Paul Tesone on July 21, 2021, 04:01:32 AM
Will these help ? P tesone CLC#6876

Interesting. I haven't seen that style of mount before. Is this a '57?

Roger Zimmermann

Yes, because '58 has the tri-power.
This installation was maybe done because that bracket was lost!
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

57 Eldo Seville

#11
See attached photos.  The coil mounting clamp appears to be turned 90 degrees in the Brougham.
Dave Morris
CLC#28497
1957 Eldorado Seville
2020 CT5-V

Paul Tesone

Dan - your response to my picture stating that you haven't  seen that style of mount got me to thinking . I went to my restoration picture album to see if I had any engine bay pictures before I turned the car over to my restoration shop . Attached are the only two pictures I have . I was VERY surprised to find that my restorer re-mounted the coil in a slightly different location . It was originally mounted just to the side  of the passenger side firewall blister . He mounted it more toward the middle of the firewall . Not too far distant from the original , but definitely a different location . Also , there is a resistor ( is that what you call it ? ) attached to the coil mounting bracket of the pre-restoration that is not present on the post-restoration . It looks like the original bracket has a slot  near the top - perhaps to accommodate the attachment of the resistor . ..... So I guess the question now is - "is the coil/mounting bracket as seen in the car when I received it , original , or did someone change it/them sometime before I bought the car" ? I don't know . The other question will now be for my restorer . He and I were both determined to do a restoration with authenticity being of prime importance . Perhaps , in doing his research , he found something to justify repositioning the coil . I'll ask , but he might not remember . I'll let you know ..... Paul Tesone CLC # 6876 .

Roger Zimmermann

Paul, the round "thing" on the coil is a condenser used to eliminate the interferences for the radio.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Dan S

Quote from: 57 Eldo Seville on July 21, 2021, 12:40:53 PM
See attached photos.  The coil mounting clamp appears to be turned 90 degrees in the Brougham.

Thank you. This seems to be what I am looking for. We started with a pile of parts and a body in primer which had been worked on previously so I never had the chance to take pictures of the original car.

Dan S

Quote from: Paul Tesone on July 21, 2021, 01:03:58 PM
Dan - your response to my picture stating that you haven't  seen that style of mount got me to thinking . I went to my restoration picture album to see if I had any engine bay pictures before I turned the car over to my restoration shop . Attached are the only two pictures I have . I was VERY surprised to find that my restorer re-mounted the coil in a slightly different location . It was originally mounted just to the side  of the passenger side firewall blister . He mounted it more toward the middle of the firewall . Not too far distant from the original , but definitely a different location . Also , there is a resistor ( is that what you call it ? ) attached to the coil mounting bracket of the pre-restoration that is not present on the post-restoration . It looks like the original bracket has a slot  near the top - perhaps to accommodate the attachment of the resistor . ..... So I guess the question now is - "is the coil/mounting bracket as seen in the car when I received it , original , or did someone change it/them sometime before I bought the car" ? I don't know . The other question will now be for my restorer . He and I were both determined to do a restoration with authenticity being of prime importance . Perhaps , in doing his research , he found something to justify repositioning the coil . I'll ask , but he might not remember . I'll let you know ..... Paul Tesone CLC # 6876 .

This is interesting as well. Part of my problem is I did not have the complete original car to reference. So I am not 100% sure where the coil is supposed to be, and a lot of the holes were filled in when the body work was done. I wonder why your coil would be mounted differently than the coil in "57 Eldo Seville" pictures above.

Paul Tesone

Roger - thanks for the clarification . I knew that's what it's purpose was . I just didn't know what it was called . As I have said many times in the past , I've gotten pretty good at writing checks to restore these cars , but my technical knowledge remains limited . ... Dan , your guess is as good - no better - than mine regarding the difference in  coil position between mine and the Seville . But , since I'm in the process of having another Biarritz restored , I would be interested in any information you come across . .... I presently have a post on the Forum about that Biarritz's 1957 trim tag . I'm about to post some information that might prove interesting and helpful to you . Check it out . If you think I can help in any way , don't hesitate to contact me ...... Don't forget to take and post progress pictures . ...Paul Tesone CLC #6876 .

Dan S


Paul Tesone

Dan - In case you haven't seen them ,  I got those pictures posted on my trim tag post . P Tesone CLC #6876

fishnjim

The logical explanation is with the dual quads there no place to mount the coil on the manifold near the distributor, it's usual location, so it's relocated to the firewall.   You have a spherical "radius" of how long the coil wire is to make it work.   So if the replacement wire is a little short it won't fit the stock location.   
When I added 3x2 on my car, I had to "reengineer"/fabricate the coil bracket a tad to fit/clear.   So I suspect that's what your shop did. 
I wasn't sure a bracket is even necessary if in the stock location.   But there is such a bracket listed in parts(see below)
Now where is the "correct" position?
You'd have to find a "certified" unmolested car in some museum or other engineering documentation.   I'd first call one of the judges for these years.   They might have some info/leads.   This could take some time to resolve.   So I'd suggest to just leave it alone for know and address later.   No sense holding up a high dollar project for a simple coil location "silly millimeter".   
I'll continue to search as I feel like it and if something hard shows up, I'll post the info.   These are cars I don't follow, I don't like the looks as well as the regular models.   Rare isn't necessarily a good thing.