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1960 Sedan Deville 1962 engine transmission help

Started by midwestisbest, July 27, 2021, 05:42:47 PM

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midwestisbest

I have a '60 Sedan. I purchased this car without an engine or transmission about 4 years ago. Along the way, I purchased a '62 390 and transmission under the advice that it would fit, "no problem".

I now know the transmission mount will have to be modified (or fabricated).

Question is: Will the '60 driveshaft work with the '62 transmission?

If it will not fit, I have two choices:
1. Hire out a custom crossmember & driveshaft
2. Find a '60 390 and transmission

Any words of wisdom are welcome!

midwestisbest

UPDATE
A friend suggested I remove the 62 transmission mount and just use a 60 transmission mount.

Good news is that the 60 mount fits into the 62 mount cavity. But the mount plate would need modded.

wheikkila

If the engine and transmission you have is in good shape. I would make the minor mods to fit it to my car. You never know what you are purchasing. I can't tell you how many engines I purchased over the years that were in good working order. Only to be as bad as what I already had.
Thanks wayne

The Tassie Devil(le)

What engine are you looking at to put in front of the '62 transmission?

You have to remember that even though the '60 engine will bolt up to the '62 Trans, the Starter motors and Front trans covers are different.

The engines after 1960 have a shallower sump, by about 1", which allows the engines to sit lower in the frame, and this has a major bearing on the trans cover plate, and the snout of the Starter Motor.

I found this out when trying to put a '60 motor in front of a '62 Transmission, in my '60 CDV, and didn't find out till I went to fit the Starter, after the units were in the car.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

tmdeturck

I think he has a 62 engine to go with the 62 transmission.

The master parts book shows a different part number for the 60 vs the 62 complete driveshaft, but the yoke numbers look the same between 60 and 62... so either the difference is that little center seal, or possibly a dimension change on the shaft itself.
1963 Series 6229
1937 Series 6019

midwestisbest

#5
To be clear, I have a '62 Engine and '62 transmission I purchased in one piece to go in my '60 Sedan.

After discussing this with a friend, turns out I only need to use a '60 transmission mount and a '60 transmission mount COVER on my 62 transmission.

I was surprised to learn a '60 transmission mount and coverplate will bolt right up to a '62 transmission.


Bruce: What do you think this means since I"m putting in a '62 engine & trans into a '60 ? I would hope since the starter bolts up fine now, that it will fit on the frame okay.

Attached a photo of a '60 trans mount cover/plate that is NOT mine but is like one I am buying.
(courtesy Ron Threadgill)


The Tassie Devil(le)

Thanks for clearing that up.

By Cover Plate, I was referring to the one that is between the Starter Motor and the Bellhousing, and not the retainer for the Mount.

The thing about parts is that in a lot of cases, the makers don't really change peripheral stuff from model to model unless there is a major design change.

One only has to look at Speedo Cables as an example.   I know that the Speedo Cables for Chevrolet interchanged between 1937 to 1968, even though the material composition changed over the years.   The lengths were the same, as were the fittings.   Found this out when I was building my second Hot Rod, and Cadillac wouldn't be much different.

With Transmissions, the major change was between 1959 and 1960, which resulted in the vehicles floor for 1960 being a different stamping in the Trans Hump area, as the '60 and onwards trans case was smaller, which allowed Cadillac to reshape the trans humps for '60 to give more interior room to occupants.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

midwestisbest

    Thanks Bruce. I have a bit before I'll be installing the engine and trans. I think the only concern now is:


    • Will the FRONT crossmember seat the '62 engine & trans correctly
    • Will the driveshaft work correctly.
    • Will the engine sit correctly for normal operation & maintenance. (Clearance btw frame & belts)

Honestly, the thought has crossed my mind to just sell the '62 engine & trans and just look for a '60 engine & trans. Or a '60 engine & a new transmission. The '62 engine & trans was hard enough to find.
But I haven't crossed that bridge yet.


The Tassie Devil(le)

G'day Bill,

The only real thing I can help you with is that the engine mounts will be the same, '60 to '62, and using the standard '60 Mounts, there was no alignment problems.

I fitted a '62 engine in front of my '60 transmision, and everything bolted up, except for the Starter Motor problem, which I solved with the right parts.

I had to make a new front drive shaft to fit the '60 Trans, as the car had been fitted with a TH400 Trans, and the yoke was totally different.

Here is a couple of pictures of the '62 engine in the '60 chassis.

And yes, the car is RHD, but there were no clearance issues.   The reason for the non-original Air Cleaner was that there was a Holley Spread Bore Carby under it, and as I was running an electric fuel pump, a carry-over from when the 454 was in there, I used the original pump support as part of me home-made PCV system.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

midwestisbest

Great photos!

Where's the front crossmember? I see the three holes on each side where it would mount up....

I see the rear crossmember.

The Tassie Devil(le)

#10
The front Crossmember is underneath the front of the sump.

You can see the slots that the engine mount thread slips into as the engine is dropped down.   Just in front of the steering box.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

midwestisbest


This cross member in the attached photo just under the jack stand. I don't see it in your photos.


The Tassie Devil(le)

Bill,

The transmission crossmember, in a '60 Cadillac, or actually, a mount support, is a piece of spring steel, approximately 4" wide and 1/8" to 3/16" thick, bent at each end and bolted to the chassis with 2 bolts each end.

When I first got my car, I thought it was a crappy piece of steel that had been roughly made up to accommodate the Transmission conversion, but it turned out to be correct.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

59-in-pieces

Bruce,

Is the right hand drive a conversion or made that way out of the USA.

Have fun,
Steve B.
S. Butcher

The Tassie Devil(le)

G'day Steve,

The RHD conversion was done after the car arrived in Australia, and I believe it was around 1976.   This was the same time they swapped the original engine and trans for a 454 and TH400.   From what I could make out, they used a local RHD Power Steering Box out of a '68 Chev, which was the last of the RHD GM cars to be imported.   The dash, I believe, was a Fibreglass one made from a mould out of Sydney, with the rest of the conversion parts just chopped and changed around.

The last RHD Cadillac to come out of USA was probably in 1942.   That is until really recent times.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Roger Zimmermann

The cars for Australia had a lot of changes. The cross member under the flywheel housing (shown is the post from miswestisbest) was eliminated due the the added rods/levers needed for the conversion. The rear support for the transmission is a stamped U channel; it was discarded in favor for the spring steel support for whatever reason.
A spring steel support for an engine/transmission is for me totally absurd.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

The Tassie Devil(le)

One thing Roger is that no Cadillacs were imported by dealers, but privately, and therefore none of them would have been covered by Warranty upon departing USA shores, and all were converted when they arrived in Australia.

Any cars for export that Cadillac made after 1946, would have been only to LHD countries.   Cadillac never built or supplied any conversion parts for RHD.

I did not realise that there was the Crossmember in the picture was there but the Trans mount was changed at the 1960 model year from the "U" shape to the spring steel flat, and not sure why they did that, but it must have been for a good reason.

Looking back at what was in the car, this car that is, they probably removed the crossmember when they changed the engine.

I manufactures a completely new gearshift linkage when I put a 390/Hydro back in, and looking at the pictures, I think I can see the holes where that crossmember was.   But, I had no troubles with it missing, or at least, I didn't think there was any trouble

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

midwestisbest


UPDATE: I've acquired a '60 transmission cover & mount and they seem to fit perfectly in the '62 transmission.

I've attached some photos for reference. Still not sure the '60 crossmember will fit perfectly under the '62 engine & trans.