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Vacuum vs electric trunk releases for early Eldorados 67 +

Started by dennisspeaks, September 04, 2021, 11:33:07 PM

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dennisspeaks

Can someone chime in and verify the difference between the vacuum and electric trunk release.  Does the vacuum one on 67 Eldorado Fleetwood only pop the trunk and does not pull it down?  This is my vacuum release.

Thanks,
CURRENT CLASSIC CARS
1939 Cadillac
1976 Eldorado convertible
1978 Toronado XS
1994 Deville
1989 Fleetwood
1989 Town Car
1982 Mark VI

PAST CARS
1978 Biarritz
1978 Eldorado
1978 Biarritz
1978 Biarritz
1974 Eldorado - RIP
1976 Eldorado Vert
1975 Sedan d'Elegance
1990 Sedan Deville -gave to son
1988 Fleetwood Brougham - gave to daughter
1968 GTO
1965 Olds 442
1975 Caprice Classic Sold

Cadman-iac

Hi Dennis,

  Those are actually two different options,  a trunk release solenoid, either vacuum or electric,  and a trunk pull down unit, which has always been electric as far as I know.  My 56 has electric for both, but I do think they tried a vacuum release unit, but I honestly don't know when or for how long.
I hope this has been helpful.

   Rick
CLC# 32373
1956 Coupe Deville A/C car "Norma Jean"

Cadillac Fleetwood

#2
Only the RELEASE is vacuum-operated in 1967 and 1968.  The vacuum cylinder and push-button in your set-up are vacuum. They were replaced by an electric switch and release in 1969-70.  All the rest is the same.

The pull-down is separate and independent from the release and is MECHANICALLY OPERATED.  No electric or vacuum is involved in the operation of the pull-down.  An electric switch and wire operate the TRUNK lamp on the dash. Your pull-down mechanism fits 1967-70 inclusive.

Early trunk pull-downs, think 1955-58, were electrically operated motors.  They became electric again in the mid '70s.  But the unit you have, which fits 1967-70, is MECHANICAL.  There is no electric or vacuum motor involved.

Charles Fares
Forty-Five Years of Continuous Cadillac Ownership
1970 Fleetwood Brougham
1969 DeVille Convertible
1989 Fleetwood

"The splendor of the most special occasion is rivaled only by the pleasure of journeying there in a Cadillac"

dennisspeaks

Thanks Charles for your explanation.  So the unit I have does both functions?  Will a later electric unit fit into a 67 Eldorado?

Thanks.
CURRENT CLASSIC CARS
1939 Cadillac
1976 Eldorado convertible
1978 Toronado XS
1994 Deville
1989 Fleetwood
1989 Town Car
1982 Mark VI

PAST CARS
1978 Biarritz
1978 Eldorado
1978 Biarritz
1978 Biarritz
1974 Eldorado - RIP
1976 Eldorado Vert
1975 Sedan d'Elegance
1990 Sedan Deville -gave to son
1988 Fleetwood Brougham - gave to daughter
1968 GTO
1965 Olds 442
1975 Caprice Classic Sold

Cadillac Fleetwood

A 1969-1970 electric release solenoid with integral latch, together with the electric push-button, and the interconnecting wiring harness from a 1969-70, will work in a 1967-68 Eldorado in place of the factory vacuum switch and vacuum solenoid.

Charles Fares
Forty-Five Years of Continuous Cadillac Ownership
1970 Fleetwood Brougham
1969 DeVille Convertible
1989 Fleetwood

"The splendor of the most special occasion is rivaled only by the pleasure of journeying there in a Cadillac"

Cadman-iac

Quote from: Cadillac Fleetwood on September 05, 2021, 12:47:37 AM
Only the RELEASE is vacuum-operated in 1967 and 1968.  The vacuum cylinder and push-button in your set-up are vacuum. They were replaced by an electric switch and release in 1969-70.  All the rest is the same.

The pull-down is separate and independent from the release and is MECHANICALLY OPERATED.  No electric or vacuum is involved in the operation of the pull-down.  An electric switch and wire operate the TRUNK lamp on the dash. Your pull-down mechanism fits 1967-70 inclusive.

Early trunk pull-downs, think 1955-58, were electrically operated motors.  They became electric again in the mid '70s.  But the unit you have, which fits 1967-70, is MECHANICAL.  There is no electric or vacuum motor involved.

Charles Fares

  Charles,

  How did the mechanical pull down unit operate then? Was it spring loaded somehow, or was there another method used?
I apologize, I guess I was mistakenly under the impression that the pull-down units were all electric from the beginning, as my 56 is, and the 77. However the 77  has a cable driven unit from a remote mounted motor instead of a direct drive right on the motor itself like the 56.
  The other years that I have had in-between didn't have that option on them, so I didn't know what they could have had available, thus my ignorance on what was used.

  Rick
CLC# 32373
1956 Coupe Deville A/C car "Norma Jean"

Cadillac Fleetwood

The pull-down assembly at the rear of the trunk is spring-loaded.  Fully raising the lid, and then lowering it to a near-closed position, i.e. 7/8", sets or "cocks" the unit to commence the pull-down. 

At the right trunk hinge are three other parts to the system: a roller with a rubber wheel, a metal track with detents in which the roller rolls, and a hydraulic cylinder.

The bowden-type sheathed cable connects the lower end of the hydraulic cylinder to the trunk pull-down. The hydraulic cylinder contains a spring, and an orifice through which fluid passes and acts to smooth out the pull-down as the cable pulls on the spring-loaded pull-down assembly.  Tension on the cable causes the pull-down to operate an bring the lid to a fuly-closed position,

Charles Fares
Forty-Five Years of Continuous Cadillac Ownership
1970 Fleetwood Brougham
1969 DeVille Convertible
1989 Fleetwood

"The splendor of the most special occasion is rivaled only by the pleasure of journeying there in a Cadillac"

Bob Hoffmann CLC#96

#7
Quote from: Cadillac Fleetwood on September 05, 2021, 02:27:20 PM
The pull-down assembly at the rear of the trunk is spring-loaded.  Fully raising the lid, and then lowering it to a near-closed position, i.e. 7/8", sets or "cocks" the unit to commence the pull-down. 

At the right trunk hinge are three other parts to the system: a roller with a rubber wheel, a metal track with detents in which the roller rolls, and a hydraulic cylinder.

The bowden-type sheathed cable connects the lower end of the hydraulic cylinder to the trunk pull-down. The hydraulic cylinder contains a spring, and an orifice through which fluid passes and acts to smooth out the pull-down as the cable pulls on the spring-loaded pull-down assembly.  Tension on the cable causes the pull-down to operate an bring the lid to a fuly-closed position,

Charles Fares
[/quote

l believe  there's  also a guide for the cable on the deck lid.
1968 Eldorado slick top ,white/red interior
2015 Holden Ute HSV Maloo red/black interior.
             
Too much fun is more than you can have.

Bob Hoffmann CLC#96

Guys, I think what started this whole discussion was Dennis was selling a power trunk conversion. No matter if the release is vacuum or electric, he needs this part I've pictured.  Dennis, if you don't have this part, feel free to contact me directly.
Bob
1968 Eldorado slick top ,white/red interior
2015 Holden Ute HSV Maloo red/black interior.
             
Too much fun is more than you can have.

Cadillac Fleetwood

Quote from: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on September 05, 2021, 07:34:45 PM
Guys, I think what started this whole discussion was Dennis was selling a power trunk conversion. No matter if the release is vacuum or electric, he needs this part I've pictured.  Dennis, if you don't have this part, feel free to contact me directly.
Bob

Bob, you are correct.  You asked the question about drilling out the welds for this part early on in the ad posting.  It became clear from subsequent posts that the Dennis had not done so, with the consequence that the welded-on mounting bracket was not present.

I have been discussing this trunk pull-down with a prospective purchaser for Dennis' parts, and our conversation, among other things, gravitated to the lack of this bracket.  I told the prospective purchaser that I would try to find a photo or illustration of same, such as from a Fisher Body manual.  But you have already done me an inestimable service by posting your photo, and for that I thank you most appreciatively.  A photo is worth 1,000 words, as they say!

Charles Fares
Forty-Five Years of Continuous Cadillac Ownership
1970 Fleetwood Brougham
1969 DeVille Convertible
1989 Fleetwood

"The splendor of the most special occasion is rivaled only by the pleasure of journeying there in a Cadillac"

dennisspeaks

Quote from: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on September 05, 2021, 07:34:45 PM
Guys, I think what started this whole discussion was Dennis was selling a power trunk conversion. No matter if the release is vacuum or electric, he needs this part I've pictured.  Dennis, if you don't have this part, feel free to contact me directly.
Bob

Yes you are correct Bob!
CURRENT CLASSIC CARS
1939 Cadillac
1976 Eldorado convertible
1978 Toronado XS
1994 Deville
1989 Fleetwood
1989 Town Car
1982 Mark VI

PAST CARS
1978 Biarritz
1978 Eldorado
1978 Biarritz
1978 Biarritz
1974 Eldorado - RIP
1976 Eldorado Vert
1975 Sedan d'Elegance
1990 Sedan Deville -gave to son
1988 Fleetwood Brougham - gave to daughter
1968 GTO
1965 Olds 442
1975 Caprice Classic Sold

dennisspeaks

Thanks Charles

Quote from: Cadillac Fleetwood on September 05, 2021, 08:14:39 PM
Bob, you are correct.  You asked the question about drilling out the welds for this part early on in the ad posting.  It became clear from subsequent posts that the Dennis had not done so, with the consequence that the welded-on mounting bracket was not present.

I have been discussing this trunk pull-down with a prospective purchaser for Dennis' parts, and our conversation, among other things, gravitated to the lack of this bracket.  I told the prospective purchaser that I would try to find a photo or illustration of same, such as from a Fisher Body manual.  But you have already done me an inestimable service by posting your photo, and for that I thank you most appreciatively.  A photo is worth 1,000 words, as they say!

Charles Fares
CURRENT CLASSIC CARS
1939 Cadillac
1976 Eldorado convertible
1978 Toronado XS
1994 Deville
1989 Fleetwood
1989 Town Car
1982 Mark VI

PAST CARS
1978 Biarritz
1978 Eldorado
1978 Biarritz
1978 Biarritz
1974 Eldorado - RIP
1976 Eldorado Vert
1975 Sedan d'Elegance
1990 Sedan Deville -gave to son
1988 Fleetwood Brougham - gave to daughter
1968 GTO
1965 Olds 442
1975 Caprice Classic Sold

dennisspeaks

Bob what I am not understanding is why would this bracket or what ever it is not already be on the car?  Wouldn't it be a straight swap if the 67 Eldorado and the car it is going into is a 67 Eldorado?  Wouldn't GM have made one trunk lid with everything and just add the options?


Quote from: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on September 05, 2021, 07:34:45 PM
Guys, I think what started this whole discussion was Dennis was selling a power trunk conversion. No matter if the release is vacuum or electric, he needs this part I've pictured.  Dennis, if you don't have this part, feel free to contact me directly.
Bob
CURRENT CLASSIC CARS
1939 Cadillac
1976 Eldorado convertible
1978 Toronado XS
1994 Deville
1989 Fleetwood
1989 Town Car
1982 Mark VI

PAST CARS
1978 Biarritz
1978 Eldorado
1978 Biarritz
1978 Biarritz
1974 Eldorado - RIP
1976 Eldorado Vert
1975 Sedan d'Elegance
1990 Sedan Deville -gave to son
1988 Fleetwood Brougham - gave to daughter
1968 GTO
1965 Olds 442
1975 Caprice Classic Sold

dennisspeaks

That's exactly why this forum is so helpful, saves a lot of headaches, time and frustration.

Quote from: Cadman-iac on September 05, 2021, 06:50:32 AM
  Charles,

  How did the mechanical pull down unit operate then? Was it spring loaded somehow, or was there another method used?
I apologize, I guess I was mistakenly under the impression that the pull-down units were all electric from the beginning, as my 56 is, and the 77. However the 77  has a cable driven unit from a remote mounted motor instead of a direct drive right on the motor itself like the 56.
  The other years that I have had in-between didn't have that option on them, so I didn't know what they could have had available, thus my ignorance on what was used.

  Rick
CURRENT CLASSIC CARS
1939 Cadillac
1976 Eldorado convertible
1978 Toronado XS
1994 Deville
1989 Fleetwood
1989 Town Car
1982 Mark VI

PAST CARS
1978 Biarritz
1978 Eldorado
1978 Biarritz
1978 Biarritz
1974 Eldorado - RIP
1976 Eldorado Vert
1975 Sedan d'Elegance
1990 Sedan Deville -gave to son
1988 Fleetwood Brougham - gave to daughter
1968 GTO
1965 Olds 442
1975 Caprice Classic Sold

V63

Quote from: dennisspeaks on September 06, 2021, 02:09:43 PM
Bob what I am not understanding is why would this bracket or what ever it is not already be on the car?  Wouldn't it be a straight swap if the 67 Eldorado and the car it is going into is a 67 Eldorado?  Wouldn't GM have made one trunk lid with everything and just add the options?

The bracket was part of the option and the body was fitted only if the option was selected. Only the pull down feature equipped vehicles will have this correct bracket.

The mechanical cable pull down was first offered in 1962

dmack8264

Quote from: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on September 05, 2021, 07:34:45 PM
Guys, I think what started this whole discussion was Dennis was selling a power trunk conversion. No matter if the release is vacuum or electric, he needs this part I've pictured.  Dennis, if you don't have this part, feel free to contact me directly.
Bob

Hi Bob
Please call me today about the selling price for this item. 949-300-6369
thanks
Doug

dennisspeaks

Bob, Thanks for clearing that up in my mind.  I appreciate it.

Quote from: V63 on September 06, 2021, 04:57:21 PM
The bracket was part of the option and the body was fitted only if the option was selected. Only the pull down feature equipped vehicles will have this correct bracket.

The mechanical cable pull down was first offered in 1962
CURRENT CLASSIC CARS
1939 Cadillac
1976 Eldorado convertible
1978 Toronado XS
1994 Deville
1989 Fleetwood
1989 Town Car
1982 Mark VI

PAST CARS
1978 Biarritz
1978 Eldorado
1978 Biarritz
1978 Biarritz
1974 Eldorado - RIP
1976 Eldorado Vert
1975 Sedan d'Elegance
1990 Sedan Deville -gave to son
1988 Fleetwood Brougham - gave to daughter
1968 GTO
1965 Olds 442
1975 Caprice Classic Sold