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1956-1976 Cadillac Sedan Deville

Started by Cadman-iac, September 04, 2021, 11:56:46 PM

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Cadman-iac

  I've often wondered why Cadillac continued to call their 4 door model a Sedan Deville when the new 4 door hardtop was introduced to the lineup. It seems to have caused a lot of confusion when talking about them, since they also continued to build an actual 4 door sedan.
I wonder what other names may have been tossed around before settling on the Sedan Deville.
Any thoughts about this?

Rick
CLC# 32373
1956 Coupe Deville A/C car "Norma Jean"

Alan Harris CLC#1513

My recollection is that that the first Sedan de Ville was the pillarless 4 door hardtop of 1955. The pillared model was still called a series 62 sedan. Later, Cadillac dropped the pillared 4 door sedan. All of the 4 doors were pillarless hardtops. The fancier trim level was the Sedan de Ville and the lower trim level was the Series 62 sedan.

Starting in 1965, the Series 62 became the Calais. At the same time, they reintroduced a pillared 4 door to go alongside the pillarless 4 door. Both the pillared and the pillarless cars were Sedan de Villes in the higher trim level and Calais sedans in the lower trim level.

Beginning in 1971, the pillared sedan was dropped. Both the Sedan de Ville and the Calais sedan were pillarless. In 1977, the Calais was dropped and all 4 door Cadillacs were Sedan de Villes, except for Fleetwood cars which used a longer body.


Cadman-iac

 So the 4 door hardtop was the first to be called a Sedan Deville?  I guess my confusion is because of the later years after they stopped making the hardtop models after 76, but they continued the name.
  However I thought that 56 was the first year for the 4 door hardtop, or pillarless model.
I was really disappointed to see the hardtop models disappear. When they came out with the 77 models, I remember thinking how ugly they were then. And now I own one!
I understand why the hardtop was eliminated, the safety records were not very good in a side impact, but you can't argue that they weren't good looking cars.
  I still don't understand why they had almost identical models with two different names. The series 62 and the Deville. Physically they look the same. So was it just the options that determined which model designation it got?
CLC# 32373
1956 Coupe Deville A/C car "Norma Jean"

Lexi

Cadman-iac, 1956 was the first year for the Sedan de Ville as well as the Eldorado Seville. Fleetwood is another Cadillac name that evolved in definition over the years. In retrospect it can be confusing. Clay/Lexi

signart

Art D. Woody

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

Have to remember that "DeVille" originally denoted 'hardtop' body style beginning in 1949 on the Coupe deVille which was also more luxuriously appointed than the Series 62 coupe. Same for the 1956 Sedan deVille which in addition to the more upscale interior, also got the longer coupe quarter panels & decklid.

However in 1957, all closed body styles became hardtops (exc Series 75) so the meaning of 'DeVille' no longer referred to the fact the car was hardtop body style but instead came to refer to trim level only. 
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Cadman-iac

Quote from: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on September 06, 2021, 09:17:55 AM
Have to remember that "DeVille" originally denoted 'hardtop' body style beginning in 1949 on the Coupe deVille which was also more luxuriously appointed than the Series 62 coupe. Same for the 1956 Sedan deVille which in addition to the more upscale interior, also got the longer coupe quarter panels & decklid.

However in 1957, all closed body styles became hardtops (exc Series 75) so the meaning of 'DeVille' no longer referred to the fact the car was hardtop body style but instead came to refer to trim level only.

   This is what has always been confusing to me.  I grew up with Chevrolet. My dad owned tons of them, and I have worked on them since I was old enough to reach under the hood.  And one thing I learned was that if it had a post that went from floor to roof, it was a sedan, and it could be a 2 or 4 door. If it only had half the post, when you put the windows down and you could reach between the windshield and the back window without hitting anything, it was a hardtop.

So when I see a Cadillac with the name "Sedan" attached, I think of a car with the roof supported by a post at the rear of the door, or doors.
And if "Deville" means "hardtop", then to my way of thinking, a Sedan Deville is an oxymoron like "military intelligence", or "jumbo shrimp".
I mean, I get it. A Sedan is typically a vehicle with more than 2 doors, and it was also used to refer to a 4 door convertible as well in the 30's and 40's. But you would think that there would be a given name for a given bodystyle to alleviate confusion.
  It's like calling everything just a "car". That encompasses an awful lot of territory.
  That's what I was thinking about when I posted this thread. It would be nice if they had stuck with the name/description that matched the vehicle style.
It would be like putting the name "Corvette" on a truck, it can be done, but it's not right. Does that make sense?

   Rick
 
CLC# 32373
1956 Coupe Deville A/C car "Norma Jean"

Lexi

It does to me. I was raised as you were and thought the automotive world was an orderly place. That is until I got older. Lots of variation out there with respect to body style terminology. Clay/Lexi

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

#8
Quote from: Cadman-iac on September 07, 2021, 01:06:54 AM
 

So when I see a Cadillac with the name "Sedan" attached, I think of a car with the roof supported by a post at the rear of the door, or doors.
And if "Deville" means "hardtop", then to my way of thinking, a Sedan Deville is an oxymoron like "military intelligence", or "jumbo shrimp".
I mean, I get it. A Sedan is typically a vehicle with more than 2 doors, and it was also used to refer to a 4 door convertible as well in the 30's and 40's. But you would think that there would be a given name for a given bodystyle to alleviate confusion.

Chalk it up to one of those gray areas where marketing terminology isn't always cast in bronze.

As an example, a true Limousine has partition between driver and rear compartment and Cadillac had always observed proper terminology in which the Series 75 without division window was called "8 Passenger Sedan"..that is up until 1976. Then in 1977, both models were called "Fleetwood Limousine" (Series 75 designation dropped) and they made the distinction by calling the model with division window "Formal Limousine" while the other was simply called the Limousine which technically it wasn't.

A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Barry M Wheeler #2189

To toss a little gasoline on the smoldering embers of history, how about when the 1941 Series 61 four door came out, it was not a 41-6119, but a 6109. And the Series 63 using the same body was a 6319D.

Speaking of which, that was the one time I bested Ron Van Gelderen. He would not believe that the Series 61 and Series 63 had the same hoods, doors, fenders, etc. In fact, the Series 6109D had the same interior trim as the Series 6319D. (Get out your Master Parts book and check the #s.)

Barry M. Wheeler #2189


1981 Cadillac Seville
1991 Cadillac Seville

Cadman-iac

Quote from: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on September 08, 2021, 07:40:41 AM
Chalk it up to one of those gray areas where marketing terminology isn't always cast in bronze.

As an example, a true Limousine has partition between driver and rear compartment and Cadillac had always observed proper terminology in which the Series 75 without division window was called "8 Passenger Sedan"..that is up until 1976. Then in 1977, both models were called "Fleetwood Limousine" (Series 75 designation dropped) and they made the distinction by calling the model with division window "Formal Limousine" while the other was simply called the Limousine which technically it wasn't.

  I have noticed that. Before joining the club I always thought that if it was longer than a stock vehicle, it was a limo, regardless of what they did to the interior.
  But I've since gotten an education from Clay "Lexi" about them. He's very well versed in the differences between the models and doesn't mind sharing his knowledge with others like me. (Plus he's got the best year of Cadillac ever built).

  It's a shame that they did away with the 4 door hardtop instead of making it safer. I've always loved the look of one with the windows down. Long and low the way a Cadillac should be.
Regardless of what they called it, they were beautiful.

So if I have this right now, the "Sedan Deville" moniker was new to the 56 model, and before that a 4 door was either a Fleetwood or a model 62.
Following the names and model numbers of any given vehicle line is sort of like trying to remember Nascar statistics and rules.
Just look at the model designations that are being used today by everyone. Now it's all about the "letters", two or three of them run together, and apparently no letter is avoided.

   Rick
CLC# 32373
1956 Coupe Deville A/C car "Norma Jean"

Lexi

Cadman-iac thanks, but the older I get the more I learn how little I know. Yes, Sedan de Ville was new for 1956 and was also Cadillac's best seller at 41,732 units sold, far out stripping all other models in sales that year. And yes, a 4 door Cadillac prior to the Sedan de Ville was either a Series 62 Sedan or a "Fleetwood" (which can refer to different models), for a period in time. To be more accurate; Fleetwood meaning a 60 Special, or a Series 75 of which by the mid 1950s there were 2 models to choose from. Interesting comments from Eric on how those models evolved. The evolution of the name Fleetwood in itself is a lengthy one and not readily quantified as the name continued to evolve over the years. Clay/Lexi

TC

Quote from: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on September 08, 2021, 07:40:41 AM
Chalk it up to one of those gray areas where marketing terminology isn't always cast in bronze.

I think Eric has given the best reason for the deviation from proper ID. Advertising and marketing.

Would a Cadillac buyer prefer driving around a budget priced Series 62 or "take a trip to France" in their Calais?

64\/54Cadillacking

#13
This is a great discussion. I love how my 64 SDV is a hardtop, with all the windows down it gives the passengers this wide open view of the road and allows for extreme air flow inside the car. Plus it just looks so cool, I think that's what made Cadillacs so nice and sleek, was because of the Hardtop sedans, vs say a 60's Lincoln Continental with their pillared sedans gave it a more stodgy conservative image. Although 60's Lincoln's are wonderfully elegant cars in their own right.

I have a question, not to hijack the thread, but why in the heck were Cadillacs called Series 62, 60 and 75's?

Do they mean anything? I always wondered why Cadillac called the Fleetwood also a "60 Special" while being a lower number compared to say the "62 Series" you would think the higher number would represent a higher trim or optioned car?

It baffles me and doesn't make any sense.

I do like however that Cadillac used the name "Fleetwood" and "60 Special" as one name prior to the 1960's like my 54 Cadillac.
Currently Rides:
1964 Sedan Deville
1954 Cadillac Fleetwood 60 Special
1979 Lincoln Mark V Cartier Designer Series
2007 Lexus LS 460L (extended wheelbase edition)

Previous Rides:
1987 Brougham D' Elegance
1994 Fleetwood Bro
1972 Sedan Deville
1968 Coupe Deville
1961 Lincoln Continental
1993 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series
1978 Lincoln Continental ( R.I.P.) 1978-2024 😞

D.Smith

#14
As pointed out the name "deVille" was first used to differentiate the hardtop coupes in 49 from the pillared 2 doors.  In 56 they added the hardtop four door thus the "Sedan deVille" was born.

The confusing part to some people is that from 57-64 both the Sedan deVilles and Series 62 four doors were all hardtops. 

Then in 1965 they added the formal roof version with fixed B-pillar to the deVille line.  So the pillarless hardtops were now called the "Hardtop Sedan deVille" vs the pillared "Sedan deVille" until 1970.

With only one roofline to choose after 1970 it was no longer necessary to differentiate them by name.   
Sedan deVille was all that was needed for a name.  So in 1977 when the body went from hardtop to pillared sedan, no name change was required.   

So it's really only 65-70 that the name difference applies.

Cadman-iac

#15
  Thanks for the clarification Dave, I didn't realize all the differences over the years.
    I think I see a small difference in the roofline between the two pictures you posted too. The car with the center post looks like the top is slightly longer than the car without the post. Is that correct,  or just how they appear in the pictures?
One looks like it has more distance between the window and the trunk lid than the other, but I'm not sure it's just an optical delusion from the different angles of the pictures.
Both beautiful cars though.

  Another difference between a hardtop and a sedan, as I was taught growing up,
is a sedan typically has a frame around the window, such as the 77 model. That pillared hardtop you show does not.
  So is it a sedan because it has 4 doors,  or is it a hardtop because it doesn't have any frames around the door glass?
It's a new category, a hardtop sedan. I can see why it would be confusing to someone going by the typical nomenclature for a given bodystyle.
   For example, how Arizona titles a Suburban. It's not listed as a truck or an SUV, they call it a station wagon. ???? What's up with that?

  Rick
CLC# 32373
1956 Coupe Deville A/C car "Norma Jean"