1970 Fleetwood Brougham says hello

[don.piotrek]

Hi All,

just joined today all the way from Europe.
Quite surprisingly and accidentally I became the owner of a 1970 Fleetwood Brougham in Nottingham Green Firemist.
This is my first GM, as I own already some Fords from the 1960s and Fiats from 1960-90s.

The Fleetwood is in rather good condition, missing some details and presenting some rust under the vinyl top. All of the cars I have ever owned, I try to bring them back to the factory specs and conditions. With Fords it was easy thanks to the Marti Works, where based on the door tag I could receive a full report on the car factory options. Do you have something similar for Cadillacs? Would love to see a kind of VIN decoder to tell me whether the green on black interior is original, the power seats were put in factory or was it changed/ added at some point.

The previous owner said the car is an even more unique as it is the "d'Elegance" version. Never heard of it, neither could find any info about this package for 70 Fleetwood.

Other question is about the vinyl top. I had it in my two Fords and one of them was terribly rusted out underneath. I am afraid the same can happen here, as the car spent its entire life in cold and humid Seattle, WA. I saw The Ark has his vinyl top redone, although at least from the pics, it seemed much better condition. What if my C-pillars are rusted completely? Would the car collapse , or is it a body-on-frame structure?

Thanks

[Roger Zimmermann]

Welcome here! Life with your "new" Cadillac may not be easy in Poland, but I may be wrong.
Bubbles under the vinyl roof means rust as you experienced it on your Ford. As the car is on a separate frame, it will not collapse when the "C" pillars are more or less gone, but it will be labor intensive to repair that.
If you publish a picture from the plate which is located on the firewall, the code for the trim will tell the original interior trim. It could be that the power seats were standard on the Fleetwood Brougham, therefore no code will appear for that on that plate.
When I removed some elements from my '72 de Ville, I found some documents. Sometimes a build sheet is under the rear seat or behind some decorative trim element. You will certainly get more answer here from the people who are ready to help.
Good luck with your "new" car and, please, publish pictures!
Interesting: last week, I got an email from someone in Switzerland wanted to sell parts from a 1970 Cadillac. If I have your email, I could resent his message with the pictures.

[D.Smith]

 
Marti Works.  Do you have something similar for Cadillacs? Would love to see a kind of VIN decoder to tell me whether the green on black interior is original, the power seats were put in factory or was it changed/ added at some point.

The previous owner said the car is an even more unique as it is the "d'Elegance" version. Never heard of it, neither could find any info about this package for 70 Fleetwood.

Congratulations on your purchase!    Please post photos for us.  Definitely a photo of the body tag so we can decode it for you.      Sadly Marti reports are not available for Cadillacs.   

The was not a d'Elegance option for the Fleetwood until 1973.    So the seller was incorrect.

A rusted out exterior skin on the rear roof will be costly to repair but is not structural.   There are inner layers that support the roof. 

You should buy a factory service manual.    A body manual is always good to have as well.
The optional specifications books are great too.   All are available on eBay.   

[colorado4x4]

Welcome to the world of 1970 Cadillacs.   For $50.00 the GM Heritage center will send you  the build sheet for your car.  I am having a problem posting a links in a message, but go to gmmediaarchive dot com  and root around in there for vehicle information kits and build sheets.

[Cape Cod Fleetwood]

HI saw The Ark has his vinyl top redone, although at least from the pics, it seemed much better condition.
Thanks

The Ark required extensive body work to the roof after the top was removed. Both lower corners of the rear glass were giant holes from rust, there were rust holes along the sides and bottom as well. There was a lot of $heet metal work done before paint and the new roof being installed. You probably need the headliner replaced as well, do that at the same time, as you will find corrosion under the sound insulation. And I really recommend sourcing the "Brougham" script and correct Cadillac script that goes on the exterior sail panel ASAP. They are rare and expensive. Who ever does the work make sure they do the correct 'halo' paint job on the roof trim. Please post pics of your Brougham and welcome to the club.

[chrisntam]

Oh yeah, we gotta have pictures.

[dochawk]

This week looks like my turn to spend drooling . . .

(I hope it doesn't give you more rust!)

[don.piotrek]

Thank you all for the kind words and the first hints.
The car is still in Seattle, stuck awaiting pickup by the forwarding company, so not sure what exactly will be needed. I expect to have it in my driveway only around January - this is how long it takes to have a car shipped from the US to Poland.
The only pics I have so far, are the ones from the listing.

Welcome here! Life with your "new" Cadillac may not be easy in Poland, but I may be wrong.
(...)

Hi Roger, thanks, I hope the life won't be that difficult. The only two issues I expect are the gas prices and the average size of parking spot

(...)
The was not a d'Elegance option for the Fleetwood until 1973.    So the seller was incorrect.
(...)
You should buy a factory service manual.    A body manual is always good to have as well.
The optional specifications books are great too.   All are available on eBay.   

Thanks, this is what I understood from uncle Google about the d'Elegance option. And already scanning ebay for some useful stuff. like the manuals, etc.

Welcome to the world of 1970 Cadillacs.   For $50.00 the GM Heritage center will send you  the build sheet for your car.  I am having a problem posting a links in a message, but go to gmmediaarchive dot com  and root around in there for vehicle information kits and build sheets.

Now this is what I expected to read! Many thanks for this one, will submit my data there.

The Ark required extensive body work to the roof after the top was removed. Both lower corners of the rear glass were giant holes from rust, there were rust holes along the sides and bottom as well. There was a lot of $heet metal work done before paint and the new roof being installed. You probably need the headliner replaced as well, do that at the same time, as you will find corrosion under the sound insulation. And I really recommend sourcing the "Brougham" script and correct Cadillac script that goes on the exterior sail panel ASAP. They are rare and expensive. Who ever does the work make sure they do the correct 'halo' paint job on the roof trim. Please post pics of your Brougham and welcome to the club.

Gosh, I couldn't tell that from your pics. And I am really dissapointed to learn the new headliner will be necessary. This job alone will double the cost of the car

[Cape Cod Fleetwood]

Thank you all for the kind words and the first hints.
The car is still in Seattle, stuck awaiting pickup by the forwarding company, so not sure what exactly will be needed. I expect to have it in my driveway only around January - this is how long it takes to have a car shipped from the US to Poland.
The only pics I have so far, are the ones from the listing.
Hi Roger, thanks, I hope the life won't be that difficult. The only two issues I expect are the gas prices and the average size of parking spot
Thanks, this is what I understood from uncle Google about the d'Elegance option. And already scanning ebay for some useful stuff. like the manuals, etc.

Now this is what I expected to read! Many thanks for this one, will submit my data there.

Gosh, I couldn't tell that from your pics. And I am really dissapointed to learn the new headliner will be necessary. This job alone will double the cost of the car

I paid 2K cash for The Ark. The roof job, professionally done, parts and labor, was 6K. And your roof is toast. Parts (vinyl roof, headliner, new script) are VERY hard to come by here (SMS has the correct materials, read the posts here about SMS, its where I got mine), and 'here' is where its all made, you might want to consider leaving the car here and having a pro shop do the work for you. The rear end is too low, its the air ride system. You can delete the system with the proper springs from Detroit Spring and the proper Monroe shocks, I've done this to The Ark. I actually replaced springs and shocks all around, it wasn't that much. The interior seems to be in excellent condition. Its corrosion that's caused that lower chrome panel to detach, this won't heal itself, it only gets worse. Recommend addressing that ASAP. Late last spring The Ark's engine was removed and professionally rebuilt, the only things 'stock' are the block and headers. Removal, rebuild, dyno, engine bay detail, replacement and shake down - 10K. I had the tranny rebuilt/restored last month, it wasn't that much, under 2K. Drive shaft has been reconditioned, every pump is new, etc. I would decide now if you're going to 'save' this car or simply drive it until it dies. 

[don.piotrek]

I paid 2K cash for The Ark.

That was a fair price. But as I learned so far it was 4 years ago, right?
Mine was twice that expensive three weeks ago.

I know the rust spreads badly since there is even a tiny spot of it. This will definitely be my first job on the car. As you wrote, it might be more difficult here in Europe to have it done. After renovation and maintenance of my other two US classics, I am already in an argument with most of the repair shops around, as they are mo*ons and charge lots of money for very poor service. To cut the costs, I always have the larger parts shipped in shared sea containers, and remember getting the new vinyl top for the Mustang took few months.

For the suspension, I like it how low it sits. Might be difficult driving down into the garage, but the look is nice. Had the same with my T-bird, due to rusted springs and when I had them done, the cool look was gone, had to go back to the repair shop and ask for lowering again.

The engine overhaul is a no-no. Been there, done that and if the car runs, I better not touch anything apart the oil filter and the battery.

[wrefakis]

looked at this one on craigs list myself
love to have a firemist fleetwood
problem with these is not only under top the frames can and do rust
great cars love my black one but nottingham would match my convert

[don.piotrek]

looked at this one on craigs list myself
love to have a firemist fleetwood

Was this exact car posted on craigslist? Do you remember what was the asking price? Yours looks great, the black color makes it more elegant.

My car was picked up yesterday and is on the way to the harbor to be loaded into container... one step closer to me

[Cape Cod Fleetwood]

That was a fair price. But as I learned so far it was 4 years ago, right?
Mine was twice that expensive three weeks ago.

You STOLE that car for 4K. Put the money into it to do it right, you'll get it back if you sell.
An engine over haul isn't usually necessary, I had an issue.

[wrefakis]

think it was 5000$?  problem is 5 is 20 before you are halfway done

[Big Fins]

Yep! My $10k is already at $14k if you include the shipping. My labor as always is free.