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'57 Cadillac Eldorado Biarritz power steering pump and bracket

Started by Injection, September 28, 2021, 02:30:01 AM

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Injection

Hi there again!

I've been trying to solve the mystery on my own but it seems like now is the time to ask for some help.

Here's the story:
I've got a '57 Cadillac Eldorado Biarritz to assemble and there's a little confusion in power steering pump installation. There's two different pump brackets on the shelf and neither fits so everything would work as should. Smaller bracket is identical to the one that sits under a '57 non-A/C Convertible's hood, the bigger one looks like the one I see in my Master Parts List.

I'm unable to use the smaller bracket due to the oil filter housing being in its place. The bigger fits in it's place, but it won't allow any belt tensioning play for alternator.

Any suggestions, where should I start solving this mess?

Roger Zimmermann

The picture you attached is for a 1958 car with air suspension. For 1957, the set-up is different, but unfortunately I found no drawing or picture. I hope for you that an owner will publish pictures from the power steering pump.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Injection

Quote from: Roger Zimmermann on September 28, 2021, 03:40:02 AM
The picture you attached is for a 1958 car with air suspension. For 1957, the set-up is different, but unfortunately I found no drawing or picture.
Yes, I'm aware of that. In my MPL, there's no diagram of '57 power steering pump and bracket neither. I have googled a lot and seen many different variations where oil filter housing sits in at least three different positions in combination with A/C, non A/C, different carbs, air suspension, etc. Thus, there's different power steering pumps and brackets as well, which adds confusion.

Quote from: Roger Zimmermann on September 28, 2021, 03:40:02 AMI hope for you that an owner will publish pictures from the power steering pump.

What do you mean?

Injection

I just gave authenticity manual a look and it states that in '57 "The pump is mounted on a bracket fastened by two bolts common to the thermostat housing, and a third through the engine block." and "The arrangement was similar in 1958 except that the mounting is on a bracket bolted in common with the two upper left water pump mounting bolts.". Yes, it leads me to think that the oil filter housing sits in wrong position, which raises another question. So, if '57 100% uses "smaller" bracket, where should the oil filter be mounted?

Roger Zimmermann

1957 Biarritz had no air suspension.
I mean that an owner from a Biarritz will post pictures from his car, showing the power steering pump and how it's attached to the engine.
From the MPL, there is just one bracket for 1957, group 18.2035, part #1465822.
In the group 8, there is a "picture" from the engine, maybe this can help.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Injection

Quote from: Roger Zimmermann on September 28, 2021, 04:20:55 AM
1957 Biarritz had no air suspension.
I mean that an owner from a Biarritz will post pictures from his car, showing the power steering pump and how it's attached to the engine.
From the MPL, there is just one bracket for 1957, group 18.2035, part #1465822.
In the group 8, there is a "picture" from the engine, maybe this can help.

Yes, I'm aware of that.

Thanks for explaining. I got it right then. I am not an native English speaker, as you might already have understood. That's why I was asking. And yes, that would be really helpful to see.

Taken your advice I checked the illustrations and it seems that Biarritz has a oil filter housing rather similar to one seen on illustration of '59 than '57's.

Roger Zimmermann

As you probably noticed, my native tongue is not English!
With Google, I found several pictures which have the same support for the steering pump. The problem with Google is sometimes a different vehicle is appearing. If you look at those pictures, you will see that there is a specific bracket for the generator and the bracket for the pump has an elongated hole allowing the belt to be adjusted.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Injection

Thanks again!

I just got to conclusion, that MPL has the right answers if you ask the right questions. I seem to be missing the correct oil filter assembly and brackets to fasten it in the right place. Everything else fits in its place nicely now. Will see if I manage to find the correct parts or be able to reproduce them. Detailed pictures would help here again.

fishnjim

This was confusing because the non-A/C ;57 locations are opposite the '58.   
A/C brings in 3 belts.   They relocate the generator for the A/C compressor so they had to move the steering pump and oil filter.  Normal brackets don't fit.   These are the only cars like that.   So it might be tight to get some parts.   Dave King is the eldo guy, I'm surprised he hasn't chimed in.   Ask him.
I'm pretty sure there's a separate parts list and shop manual for the '57 Eldorados.   So it probably has pictures.   You can search and it should show.   There's a problem posting links with the new internet police software, or I'd show you.   
The regular parts list doesn't have all those parts. 
Guess: you might have non-A/C brackets on the shelf.   

Roger Zimmermann

Quote from: fishnjim on September 28, 2021, 08:27:43 PM

I'm pretty sure there's a separate parts list and shop manual for the '57 Eldorados.   
Only Brougham models have a separate shop and parts list. Regular Eldorado models are built the same way as the other serie 62 models.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

V63

The 1957-8 brougham illustration might be what you need with the only exception being the brougham had no oil filter on "top"  and the generator was much larger, all said the ps pump and brackets should be the same... assuming I'm remembering correctly🤷🏽‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️

57 Eldo Seville

Photos of a 1957 Eldorado power steering bracket.
Dave Morris
CLC#28497
1957 Eldorado Seville
2020 CT5-V

Injection

Thank you all for your replies!

I do have the correct power steering assembly mounted. Now that I have it sorted, may someone provide me a photo of '57 A/C equipped oil filter bracket and brace? I think I have the spacers already. Any dimensions would help as well.

57 Eldo Seville

#13
The blue support brace is bolted to an intake manifold bolt.  The black mounting bracket is hard to see behind the power steering pump hose but it is U-shaped and is attached at the bottom to cylinder head bolts.
Dave Morris
CLC#28497
1957 Eldorado Seville
2020 CT5-V

Injection

Quote from: 57 Eldo Seville on October 04, 2021, 10:43:23 AM
The blue support brace is bolted to an intake manifold bolt.  The black mounting bracket is hard to see behind the power steering pump hose but it is U-shaped and is attached at the bottom to cylinder head bolts.

Wow, thank you!

If anyone has any more pictures or is able to provide me any dimensions the would be very welcome.