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76 Eldorado AC system

Started by Cadillacdave, October 19, 2021, 06:17:19 PM

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Cadillacdave

76 Eldo with 30K miles, all original. Compressor seems like it leaked all  of the R12 from the front seal. Dryer also looked like it has a leak.

Do I repair compressor with new seals, flush system and run 134a or go with a sanden replacement, new parallel flow condenser and new dryer? I realize the new compressors are made for 134a and the original A6 likely won't work as well with 134a.

jagbuxx #12944

A6 compressors are available as rebuilts. I've replaced them in my '70, '75(sold) and my '76. I run R12 I'm all of them
Frank Burns #12944
76 Coupe d'Elegance EFI Galloway Green Firemist
70 deVille Convert San Mateo Red
61 Coupe Deville Bristol Blue
41 Series 61 Deluxe Coupe 6127D Black
08 STS 3.6 1SC  Thunder Gray
16 GTI Gray
03 T-Bird Black
16 Grand Cherokee Summit, Granite
19 Tiffin Phaeton 40AH
07 Corvette Blue
20 MB S450 White

"Whatever the occasion, there
is no better way to arrive than in a Cadillac.

Cadillacdave

I have heard horror stories about rebuilt compressors. Maybe they are just stories! My compressor may just need a front seal. Not sure if R12 is readily available in my area. Most shops are pushing the 134a conversion.

TJ Hopland

I think basically you have 2 options,  go all original including rebuilding the VIR and R-12 or go all out conversion with a Sanden, VIR eliminator, and parallel condenser.    Its seems like anywhere in between is were there are more problems than successes.  I went the full conversion route and performance and reliability has been fine. 
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Cadillacdave

That makes sense. Either full conversion or all the way back to original.  I may go the conversion route, as you said you have had good reliability with yours. Thank you for the advice.

TJ Hopland

I'm no way any kind of AC expert and living in Minnesota maybe don't have the demands other climates may have but it worked for me.   I was pretty much missing everything under the hood anyway and my car isn't anywhere near a 100% show car,  its always been a driver.   

Mixed reputation and cost of A6 compressors was what concerned be about going the original.   Finding R-12 wasn't a problem.   VIR repairs and kits also had a mixed reputation and cost.   I think when I did mine which is a few years back now the compressor I would buy if I went the A6 route was in the $800 range and that was just the compressor.  There were cheaper options but the reviews got even more mixed to bad so I didn't want to go there.

I'm pretty sure a 76 is the same under the hood as 73 and I didn't have to modify anything.   If I or someone had all the original parts to go back on they would just bolt back on so it really didn't seem like there was a downside.

I bought the standard universal Sanden for around $200 and a universal bracket from MTS back when Marty was still there.   VIR eliminator and receiver dryer one came from vintage air and the other old air I think.   I wanted the receiver where one of the manifolds could rotate to make the fit better and the place with the VIR kit didn't have that style.

I found a local shop that stocked all the fittings and hose.  They sold it to me including the price of me bringing them back to be crimped once I fit it all up.   I also bought the biggest universal condenser they had in stock and I think all the little things like pressure switches and conversion fittings.

From memory I think I was at around $900 for all the parts which like I said was everything under the hood.   Only labor was crimping the hoses.   I did the rest but you would have similar labor costs even if you stayed original.   

Mine for sure doesn't look original and could look a lot better if had taken more time to route hoses and wires.  Maybe if I had gone with 90* fitting instead of a 45* in one spot hose would not be over the corner of the battery,  ya know little things like that.    You may even run into issues like that redoing stock hoses where a bend isn't quite like the factory ones were.

Like I said it worked for me and I would do it again.   It does seem like there are a few more options now for original than there were when I was looking and the brackets for the standard cheap sanden look to be more expensive now so maybe cost wise its not as different as when I did mine?

StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Big Fins

My 76 has the newer R134-a, cycling compressor, parallel flow condenser, VIR eliminator, factory evaporator and of course the R134-a refrigerant. I have no complaints whatsoever about the entire set up. The biggest difference is, the engine doesn't act like it lost 50 of it's horsepower when the compressor comes on. Everything came from Old Air. That was 6 years ago and it hasn't been touched since.
Current:
1976 Eldorado Convertible in Crystal Blue FireMist with white interior and top. (Misty Blue)
1969 Fleetwood Brougham in Chalice Gold FireMist with matching interior and top. (The Old Man) SOLD!

Past and much missed:
1977 Brougham de Elegance
1976 Eldorado Convertible
1972 Fleetwood Brougham
1971 Sedan de Ville
1970 de Ville Convertible
1969 Sedan de Ville
1959 Sedan deVille

Cadillacdave

Thanks guys. Thats what I want to hear, that you have done an aftermarket conversion and it is working (or not working). Sounds like both of you are satisfied with the Sanden compressor and the 134a set up.

V63

Yes, I just did 2 1976 era with "all new"  and have cold air when I want it.

I recognize the original system worked well as designed, but the problem today is the availability, quality and cost of replacement parts with the main ingredient...  R12 effectively obsolete.


Big Fins

Not obsolete, just insanely priced out of reasonable reach.
Current:
1976 Eldorado Convertible in Crystal Blue FireMist with white interior and top. (Misty Blue)
1969 Fleetwood Brougham in Chalice Gold FireMist with matching interior and top. (The Old Man) SOLD!

Past and much missed:
1977 Brougham de Elegance
1976 Eldorado Convertible
1972 Fleetwood Brougham
1971 Sedan de Ville
1970 de Ville Convertible
1969 Sedan de Ville
1959 Sedan deVille

"Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364

John,
Bought a 30# "jug" of R-12 a few months back. At $1,200.00 that works out to $40.00 per pound. I don't know but with a 3-3/4 pound system $150.00 is less than 2 times what i just paid for a tank of gas in my 75.  It's all relative.
Greg Surfas
Cadillac Kid-Greg Surfas
Director Modified Chapter CLC
CLC #15364
66 Coupe deVille (now gone to the UK)
72 Eldo Cpe  (now cruising the sands in Quatar)
73 Coupe deVille
75 Coupe deElegance
76 Coupe deVille
79 Coupe de ville with "Paris" (pick up) option and 472 motor
514 inch motor now in '73-

Big Fins

I remember buying it in K-Mart for $0.99/16oz can. When a pound was a pound, not 12 ounces.
Current:
1976 Eldorado Convertible in Crystal Blue FireMist with white interior and top. (Misty Blue)
1969 Fleetwood Brougham in Chalice Gold FireMist with matching interior and top. (The Old Man) SOLD!

Past and much missed:
1977 Brougham de Elegance
1976 Eldorado Convertible
1972 Fleetwood Brougham
1971 Sedan de Ville
1970 de Ville Convertible
1969 Sedan de Ville
1959 Sedan deVille

"Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364

John,
I'm down to 1-1/2 cases (18 cans) of $0.69 per can, 14 oz cans of the 4 cases that I bought in (I think) 1983.  Walking through one of the Big Box stores and thought "that might come in handy some day".
I figure I'll "age out" about the time my current stash of R-12 is gone.
Greg Surfas
Cadillac Kid-Greg Surfas
Director Modified Chapter CLC
CLC #15364
66 Coupe deVille (now gone to the UK)
72 Eldo Cpe  (now cruising the sands in Quatar)
73 Coupe deVille
75 Coupe deElegance
76 Coupe deVille
79 Coupe de ville with "Paris" (pick up) option and 472 motor
514 inch motor now in '73-

Big Fins

Still a nice supply on my shop shelf also. I was looking at it as I grabbed the cans of R-134a for the already converted '69. Too much work for a car that I won't have that long.
Current:
1976 Eldorado Convertible in Crystal Blue FireMist with white interior and top. (Misty Blue)
1969 Fleetwood Brougham in Chalice Gold FireMist with matching interior and top. (The Old Man) SOLD!

Past and much missed:
1977 Brougham de Elegance
1976 Eldorado Convertible
1972 Fleetwood Brougham
1971 Sedan de Ville
1970 de Ville Convertible
1969 Sedan de Ville
1959 Sedan deVille

JLanteigne75

Here's my A/C story (76 Deville):

I'm in Canada, so my options were limited for what I could do (i.e R12 and sanden compressor availability).

The compressor was shot when I bought the car. I removed all components, flushed them, and put in a rebuilt A6 (this includes a new desiccant in the VIR).  I used Redtek 12a refrigerant and ester oil per the amounts specified in the shop manual (fun fact, you can find the complete manual on the archives website).  I realized I had a VIR valve issue on the first charge, so I replaced both valves in the VIR.  If you need to replace the VIR valves, keep in mind that the o-ring kit and o-rings that come with the desiccant replacement DO NOT contain the o-ring that seals the top of the VIR to the main body.  You will need to buy that separate ($10 on ebay for me).

I got the compressor on amazon and the desiccant kit, o-ring, and retrofit valve kit on RockAuto.  The oil and redtek was available at my local parts store.  I got the new VIR valves and o-ring kit on ebay.

Successful so far for two months.

Jonny Lanteigne
1976 Sedan Deville Hardtop