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Help! Can anyone tell me the proper name for this part?

Started by 53Mark, October 24, 2021, 04:43:46 PM

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53Mark

Greetings,

This is my first post and I'd like to start by thanking everyone who unknowingly helped me over the last 2 years in restoring my car. Your collective experience has been a big help. Can anyone tell me (1) what is the proper nomenclature for this part and (2) any idea where I can find one? This piece fits right up against the door sill plate on my 1953 Fleetwood 60 Special. Somehow I am missing the one for the front passenger side.

Thanks,

53Mark

fishnjim

My parts list doesn't cover '53 much.
I think this is the right item.   Need to check with an earlier parts list.

53Mark


scotth3886


Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

Looks like it might be called some sort of border trim or "carpet-to-sill[plate] border molding/trim" or "carpet to door opening molding/trim". Usually I would expect to see some sort of windlace (fabric) in that location but I confess I'm not that familiar with early '50s Cadillacs.
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Jay Friedman

In my 1935-55 parts manual these are called "Retainer, Floor Carpet, At Side of Scuff Plate", in Group 34.4350.  For the 53 Fleetwood 60 Special, Model 6019X, there are 3 different ones: Part number 461 5525, right front; Part number 461 6256, left front; Part number 461 5525, rear both sides.
1949 Cadillac 6107 Club Coupe
1932 Ford V8 Phaeton (restored, not a rod).  Sold
Decatur, Georgia
CLC # 3210, since 1984
"If it won't work, get a bigger hammer."

Lexi

Wow. So much confusion I ran into trying to look this up. Same old problem in that we have to know what GM called these parts back in the day. If not, a diagram would help. No such luck in that department, but I used a 1956 Cadillac MPL and it only went back 2 years to 1954 for the part Jim noted. So that may not be the correct listing.

Jay's findings are intriguing and may very well be on the mark. But just in case, I found the following listing that referenced a "sill" plate...

Group 35, under the heading; "PLATE, SCUFF, DOOR SILL", (35.1255). Listed as part #460 4910 for the "Right Front" side, to fit, among other year and models of Cadillac, a 1953 6019X.

So Jay's "RETAINER, FLOOR CARPET, AT SIDE OF SCUFF PLATE", (also in my 1956 MPL), looks promising, but group 35.1255 at least mentions "sill" plate, (but that may be referencing the trim at the bottom of the "kick panel" or of the lower door trim itself). My brain is now hurting.

I would say that if Jay's parts manual included diagrams with these parts numbers, that would "ace" it, and such trim does indeed "retain" carpet. Unfortunately I did not see any diagrams in the 1956 MPL to zero in on this area, so I am not 100% certain what part it referenced, based on what I have here.

Clay/Lexi

Jay Friedman

Clay's made some excellent points. 

I looked in my parts manual, and while there are lots of diagrams of upholstery and doors, none seem to show this plate. 
1949 Cadillac 6107 Club Coupe
1932 Ford V8 Phaeton (restored, not a rod).  Sold
Decatur, Georgia
CLC # 3210, since 1984
"If it won't work, get a bigger hammer."

scotth3886

#8
If you're searching today in 2021, sill plate would be the way I'd think. 

In fact

https://www.ebay.com/itm/402626626342?hash=item5dbe6ac326:g:jWUAAOSwutVfvssR

Roger Zimmermann

However, the PO is not searching for the sill plate but the small molding next to it, called, as Jay wrote, retainer, floor carpet.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

TonyZappone #2624

The only other car I have seen that retainer "rod" was on '53 Buick Skylarks.  Having owned a number of them, most of them had been lost to time
Tony Zappone, #2624
1936 Pierce-Arrow conv sed
1947 Cadillac Conv cpe
1958 Cadillac conv
2016 Cadillac CT6 Platinum
2022 Chrysler Pacifica Pinnacle

fishnjim

The "scuff plate" is the outer piece at the door threshold.   "next to scuff plate" is correct regardless of year.
It's a carpet hold down, but to search for one, you have to widen your search terms.   Need the correct PL to find the OEM #.   But won't due much good, if no NOS.

This was common in that early post war period, my 49 "P" has a separate strip for the carpet, but does not screw down, friction fit.   They don't use them by the mid '50s, carpet just tucks under.   Maybe the old jute backing is much different and the edges might roll up or something?   
Push come to shove, this could be made by a trim shop/stainless repairer.

Lexi

That makes sense, hence my disclaimers. Without a diagram these "blind search" scenarios can be rough sledding. Recently went through a similar scenario trying to find the GM name for that tiny gas tank "ferrule" found in '50s Cadillacs. Of course they didn't refer to it as a ferrule. That would be too easy. As for this door sill/carpet hold down part I seem to recall seeing listings for some that required screws and others that were friction fit I presume (no screws). Even if no NOS parts available, the Master Parts List can advise what years and model a particular part fits, thus broadening your search for used. An interchange manual function of sorts. Clay/Lexi

Jason Edge

#13
Quote from: lexi on October 25, 2021, 01:55:03 PM
Wow. So much confusion I ran into trying to look this up. Same old problem in that we have to know what GM called these parts back in the day. If not, a diagram would help. No such luck in that department, but I used a 1956 Cadillac MPL and it only went back 2 years to 1954 for the part Jim noted. So that may not be the correct listing.

Jay's findings are intriguing and may very well be on the mark. But just in case, I found the following listing that referenced a "sill" plate...

Group 35, under the heading; "PLATE, SCUFF, DOOR SILL", (35.1255). Listed as part #460 4910 for the "Right Front" side, to fit, among other year and models of Cadillac, a 1953 6019X.

So Jay's "RETAINER, FLOOR CARPET, AT SIDE OF SCUFF PLATE", (also in my 1956 MPL), looks promising, but group 35.1255 at least mentions "sill" plate, (but that may be referencing the trim at the bottom of the "kick panel" or of the lower door trim itself). My brain is now hurting.

I would say that if Jay's parts manual included diagrams with these parts numbers, that would "ace" it, and such trim does indeed "retain" carpet. Unfortunately I did not see any diagrams in the 1956 MPL to zero in on this area, so I am not 100% certain what part it referenced, based on what I have here.

Clay/Lexi

Unless I am missing something Jay has nailed it for you about 7 replies prior. The Master Parts Book full name for the sill plate is DOOR SILL SCUFF PLATE, so the reference to "scuff plate" is referencing what many of us just call the sill plate. See attached picture showing MPB naming convention for "sill plate". NOTE. This is only posted to show the full name of the sill plate - DOOR SILL SCUFF PLATE.

Also, it is my understanding he is looking for the trim at top of his first picture that runs next to and on the inside of the door sill plate. Since this is on the inside of the sill plate I would assume it would be to hold down whatever flooring was used on these cars (sorry, I'm an idiot regarding these earlier cars), so the MPB entry "RETAINER, FLOOR CARPET, AT SIDE OF SCUFF PLATE" pretty much nails it as far as I can see.
Jason Edge
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Lexi

Group 35.1255, appears not to be what the poster is looking for. I agree that what Jay mentioned as well as your last comments are correct. The confusion seems to be that this year of Cadillac uses a "2 part door sill", so to speak. I think he is looking for the more narrow piece, which seems to have a different part number. Tony and Roger note that this narrow trim that runs along side the door sill is an additional piece. So it looks like the door "sill" is a 2 piece affair, with different part numbers, in this case. The long narrow strip pictured above is the screw on type as mentioned in the MPL. Jay did mention that as being under Group 34.4350, which lists part #461 5525, (RH Front), for a "53-6019X". If you needed the entire door sill assembly, you would then order from group 35.1255, (see your image attached), which I believe is the larger piece that I previously referenced. So, unless we have missed something I am placing my money on Jay's original opinion on Group 34.4350, as well. Any comments from the original poster 53Mark? Earth to Mark, Earth to Mark? Clay/Lexi

Jason Edge

#15
Quote from: lexi on October 26, 2021, 01:38:54 PM
Group 35.1255, appears not to be what the poster is looking for.
I didn't say it was! I posted the Scuff Plate entry (Parts Group 35.1255) to show that the Master Parts Books calls the sill plate a "DOOR SILL SCUFF PLATE" since there seems to be confusion between  DOOR SILL and SCUFF PLATE.
I went back and added a scan from the group that Jay had already provided (Parts Group 34.4350).  This part is called the Side of Scuff Plate Floor Carpet Retainer. It is not the sill plate.
In basic terms you have the door sill (parts group 35.1255) and the carpet retainer (parts group 34.4350) that runs next to it.

Jason Edge
Lifetime Member
Executive Vice President
CLC 1963/64 Cadillac Chapter Director - www.6364Cadillac.com
CLC Carolina Region Webmaster - www.CRCLC.org
CLC MRC Benefactor
email - jasonedge64@outlook.com
1964 Coupe DeVille - Sierra Gold - http://bit.ly/1WnOQRX
2002 Escalade EXT - Black
2013 Escalade EXT Premium Edition - Xenon Blue
2022 XT5 Luxury Premium - Dark Moon Blue Metallic

David King (kz78hy)

Quote from: lexi on October 26, 2021, 10:06:08 AM
That makes sense, hence my disclaimers. Without a diagram these "blind search" scenarios can be rough sledding. Recently went through a similar scenario trying to find the GM name for that tiny gas tank "ferrule" found in '50s Cadillacs. Of course they didn't refer to it as a ferrule. That would be too easy. As for this door sill/carpet hold down part I seem to recall seeing listings for some that required screws and others that were friction fit I presume (no screws). Even if no NOS parts available, the Master Parts List can advise what years and model a particular part fits, thus broadening your search for used. An interchange manual function of sorts. Clay/Lexi

I have those fuel line ferules. 
David King
CLC 22014  (life)
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53Mark

Thank you all. I think Jay got it right, but all the other details greatly appreciated!