1971 Eldo convertible roof hard to raise or lower

[Roger Zimmermann]

A 90 years old French owner of a 1971 Eldorado is asking for help: the roof cannot be opened or lowered without manual help. He let control the electric motor; the company which tested it said that it's in good condition. However, during the process of lowering/raising the top, the relay near the motor is getting hot.
Without experience with that kind of convertible top, I can only assume that the relay is bad or that the roof mechanism is misadjusted.
One supplier is selling a stronger motor for the top, but I cannot find the relay #9875101 which was also used on 69-70 60/40 seat.
What would you suggest?

[R Pope]

At what point does the top struggle? Mine also need some manual help on meeting the front windshield until I realized the 3rd bow guide (a plastic part) was missing. Fixing this helped the scissors get into the proper angle. Check the side cables as well, they tend to pull out on the bows. 

[Roger Zimmermann]

Thanks for the answer. Please understand that I'm at about 400 miles from that car and I just can either supply a motor or relay. I'm aware that those roofs can jam if not everything is in good condition but I cannot ask that 90 years old man to check something he has no idea. However, it came on my mind that something similar to your experience may be the cause of the malfunction.
I saw in the body manual that some exterior force is needed at the front bow to close the roof.

[benji808]

Does he know you have to manually unhook the roof from both driver and passenger sides before lowering (hooks at corner of windshield/sun blocks)? No context for the gentlemen's car knowledge, so checking the obvious. And yes to previous comments - probably need a slight manual pull down/adjust to lock the hooks in once the roof is fully extended in the closed position.

Based on my understanding, the relay seems unlikely- I think the relay would either work or not work, nothing in between (unless it's shorting out so the motor stops and starts, in which case I would check wiring before replacing the relay).

Motor seems more probable - I have moderate to low confidence in someone "testing" it and saying it works, unless they were testing in car with a direct power supply. It might be getting power and switching on/off correctly, but gunk in the unit, worn teeth, etc could all cause issues that wouldn't appear if electrically bench testing, unless you disassembled and inspected.

All that being said, it's tough to diagnose these scissor tops without inspecting. Very heavy roof, and fascinating setup. Lots of small things that could be off, and even when well adjusted they may work more slowly in cooler weather, for example.

Can he make a video of the roof opening and closing and call out where he is perceiving an issue?

[Roger Zimmermann]

Can he make a video of the roof opening and closing and call out where he is perceiving an issue?

Ah! Ah! He cannot even send a picture over email!
Anyway, thanks for your comments. I don't know what was checked on the electric motor; it's my understanding that either it's running or not. How was it checked? I don't know. If the reduction gears are worn, it may be an issue.
On the other side, if the contacts from the relay are pitted, they have some electrical resistance and may generate heat.

[hornetball]

I always raise and lower with the engine running so the electric motor has 14VDC rather than 12VDC.  I also keep hinge points lubricated.

[chrisntam]

I raise & lower my '70's top not only with the motor running, but at a fast idle too.  Most available voltage available is prolly a good thing.

[winger888]

/quote]

Yes at least on mine

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

On my own '72, there is minimal force required to seat the front header bow on the windscreen.

Plus, I can raise and lower the top without the engine running, BUT, I am running an 800CCA Battery.

Halfway lowered it a coupe of weeks ago, and definitely no trouble, even though the car hadn't been used for nearly 2 years.   But, that was because of COVID-19, and movement restrictions.

When lowering the roof, after I have unlocked it, I always manually lift the header bow clear of the locating points above the screen.

Bruce.

[Big Fins]

Also, look into the drive cables. They may be fraying internally and binding within the casings.

As previously noted, lubrication and adjustment is critical. Be sure all joints are properly tightened by the gears. There are two large shoulder bolts with Castle nuts and cotter pins that the scissors pivot on. The pressure and use can work the nut loose and even sheer a cheap cotter pin. I managed to catch mine on the last thread before the bolt popped out. That could have been disastrous.

After making sure everything was cleaned, lubricated and tightened, my top operates as new. I still need to pull the header bow down when latching it to the windshield frame, but that's due to age and the top shrinking. It's over 12 years old now. I'll choke when I get the cost of that replacement.

[Roger Zimmermann]

Thanks for all the answers. I will pass the various recommendations to the owner; don't know if he is able to verify himself all those points.