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Author Topic: 1958 series 62 front wheel brg #s  (Read 779 times)

Offline TomJudd

  • Posts: 133
  • Name: T Judd
1958 series 62 front wheel brg #s
« on: December 11, 2021, 03:35:48 PM »
Can someone please provide correct part #s for 1958 Coupe Deville front inner and outer wheel bearings, and L and R wheel cylinders.  Thanks in advance. Need at minimum 1 inner and 1 outer, and both cyls. I will buy  used/good brgs
Torque it til it breaks , then back er off 1/4 turn !!

Offline fishnjim

  • Posts: 2433
  • Name: J. Bozin
Re: 1958 series 62 front wheel brg #s
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2021, 03:49:16 PM »
I have that but not handy.   I'll have to look for it.   I bought new ball bearings, so you should be able to still find, if covid hasn't upset inventory.  Not sure if I bought spares(?).
I'd try Rock Auto first.  www.rockauto.com   Probably where I got them or NAPA.   You can change to roller bearings also.   I had new brakes so did buy wheel cylinders, but they're pretty standard.  New hoses are available as those were chagned when I had the dual system put in.   I can get the P/N from the list.   
If no one else posts before I get back, later, I hunt them up.  Have two folders of receipts to shuffle.
Unfortunately, I suspect you only find chinese parts, even from the name brand suppliers.   About the only place still making ball type and old wheel cylinders.   You can have yours rebuilt/resleeved.   Whitepost in VA.   Costs about the same as new.  What i did on the P was put the chinese cylinders on but took the OEM Wagner boots and reused them.   Can't tell, no marking.   

Offline Lexi

  • Posts: 2006
  • CLC Number: 28634
  • Name: C.R. Foley
Re: 1958 series 62 front wheel brg #s
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2021, 05:16:20 PM »
Tom, the 1958 Cadillac MPL lists:

"Bearing Assembly, Front Wheel", for "58-60S, 62" (outer, includes cone, cup and retainer), as part #909 073. The inner front assembly is part #909 066, (for the same vehicles).

The actual ball bearings themselves, in a cage style retainer, as a separate part is #909 762, (inner), and #909 725, (outer). Think it is best to change all if you can find the entire assemblies.

Wheel cylinders:
Front #545  5663 (front, 1 1/8 inch diameter pistons), (I assume this is for either RH or LH)
RH, rear, #545 6433 (1" diameter piston)
LH, rear, #545 6434 (1" diameter piston)

Double check when you locate these parts, but this is how I read the information in the Master Parts List. Clay/Lexi

Offline fishnjim

  • Posts: 2433
  • Name: J. Bozin
Re: 1958 series 62 front wheel brg #s
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2021, 09:58:57 AM »
Federal Mogul NNT: B73 & B66 for the front wheel ball bearings.   
I couldn't find the receipt where I bought them, just the packing list when they drop shipped from the warehouse.   Says I bought 3 sets, so I should have a spare.   But readily available unless covid issues.   Looks like I bought the bearings through Rock Auto as they list these and others for it.
I should have the grease seal number but not finding, which may mean I might have had one or was good, but I don't generally re-use seals when I press bearings. 
Rock Auto has wheel cylinders too.   So I won't post those numbers.   
FYI: MPL numbers are Cadillac part numbers, so unless you go somewhere with a cross reference won't do much good.   Sometimes they put the manufacturer part number on the right description, like carbs, etc.   They reused some of those numbers too.
Note: the driver side spindle nut is left hand thread, so don't turn the wrong way.   

Offline Lexi

  • Posts: 2006
  • CLC Number: 28634
  • Name: C.R. Foley
Re: 1958 series 62 front wheel brg #s
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2021, 10:48:41 AM »
Good options noted by the previous poster but I don't agree that the numbers I posted "won't do much good" as that has not been my experience. I noted the original part numbers as they do pop up online and at swap meets. Have seen several sets over the past couple of years. Just installed such a set of complete assemblies in my front wheels this summer. So, they are around and I imagine they may also be of superior quality to that currently manufactured. All depends on your comfort level, etc. At least with the original numbers you have additional options. Your choice. Nice to have the luxury of options when searching parts for our cars. For others who may have read my post, to be clear the MPL indicated that the parts listed were for non Commercial vehicles. So "CC" vehicles as I recall were excluded. Their replacement parts had other part numbers. Clay/Lexi

Offline Coupe

  • Paul Flykt CLC # 18899
  • Posts: 319
  • CLC Number: 18899
  • Name: P Flykt
Re: 1958 series 62 front wheel brg #s
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2021, 11:05:34 AM »
I got the bearings for my '57 from US Bearings and Drives.  The part numbers and manufacturer should be on the old bearings.  A good
bearing shop can cross reference to different manufacturers.
 When installing the bearings follow the steps in the shop manual.  Installation of ball bearings is different than roller bearings.  Over tightened ball bearings can lead to bearings seized to the spindle. 
A member of our local club found out the hard way on his '55 Chev.  He had to replace a number pf parts.

Coupe   
1957 Coupe de Ville
1962 Sedan de Ville (4 window)
1993 Allante
1938 Chevrolet Business Coupe (Sold)
1949 Jeepster VJ-2

Offline Lexi

  • Posts: 2006
  • CLC Number: 28634
  • Name: C.R. Foley
Re: 1958 series 62 front wheel brg #s
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2021, 10:02:33 PM »
Yes, one of the sets I saw had indicated that their part number was a replacement for one of the above sets, (which was quoted). So there are additional circumstances where the old numbers are still relevant, even if you can't locate an NOS unit from back in the day; cross referencing can provide replacement parts. Also, part #909 762, for example, was good for 1941 - 1958 Cadillac, (and today I also saw it in my 1959 MPL), so many were produced as they fit many years of our cars. Good for us when we try to locate parts that were mass produced in great quantities for years. And yes, pay particular attention to the Shop Manual instructions for installation. Clay/Lexi

Offline fishnjim

  • Posts: 2433
  • Name: J. Bozin
Re: 1958 series 62 front wheel brg #s
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2021, 05:12:06 PM »
Note the last two digits in the Cadillac part number are the bearing "numbers" I posted.
Those are the numbers you need to buy new ones, not the 6 digits.   They were a pretty standard wheel bearing size.   Other manufacturers can have different catalog numbers.(see Rock Auto link below)
"B" stand for ball bearing.   There are other "66" bearings(types), so specify wheel bearings and check fitment.  Cross to the Federal mogul or National #.   [Originally, they were probably supplied by Timken, SKF, or National.   All these companies are not their former selves and global, sourcing everywhere, if the brand name survived.   I believe Timken has US plants left, there's one not too far from me in Stanley NC.]

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/cadillac,1958,series+62,6.0l+365cid+v8,1320624,brake+&+wheel+hub,wheel+bearing,1672
After 1984 computerized inventory, they catalogued everything by year, make, model, so '58 Cadillac part numbers have to be cross referenced to look them up.(unless one knows how to decode)   Not many places have pre-84 Cadillac part numbers on computer.   Most Cad dealers don't unless they kept the old microfiche files and readers or paper.   NOS bearings would be rare and pricey.   Not much sense putting used ones in, if new available for <$80 ea.   They've went up quite a bit since I purchased.   They were $20-30 then.   
There are roller equivalents, if you prefer, as I said, I don't know the number but can inquire at parts stores.   
Mostly you can look on the old bearings and there should be supplier numbers on it, but sometimes, get worn off, unreadable, or not there.  I don't recall I was able to cross reference off the part.  Most liek to have the aprts handy when they pull apart.   They used to have local stores, "Bearings Inc." where you could walk in with a used bearing or seal for anything and they'd match via measurements.  Same for the local Napa, etc.   But they disappeared via merger, if I recall.   Company's still around but not retail like it was.       These big box parts places are all on the computer and can't find or cross much.

Offline Lexi

  • Posts: 2006
  • CLC Number: 28634
  • Name: C.R. Foley
Re: 1958 series 62 front wheel brg #s
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2021, 07:59:02 PM »
Yes, but not everyone has the same degree of knowledge on this Forum. Hence one of the reasons for the Forum.  If otherwise, there would be no posts asking such questions. So I think spelling it out, within reason makes sense. Sometimes several posts hopefully clarify things for those less knowledgeable, which is what I hope this thread has done. The use of a CLC data base as you suggested earlier would be a great idea where to store such information. I also agree that I would not install used bearings if unused replacements were available. I had a mechanic advise that bearings and their races should stay together as they have symmetrical wear patterns incurred through use. Rather like wearing an old pair of comfortable but broken in slippers, to use an analogy. He expounded on this but I don't have the expertise to comment further. Anyone out there have a reasoned opinion as to whether used bearings can be used in another wheel and if so under what circumstances, (as Tom has suggested he may opt for)?

I do not agree that these NOS bearings are "rare" as you put it. I bought 3 sets over the last 2 years, and saw 2 others which I did not purchase. "Rare" is a relative term, often defined by a person's general knowledge and even geographic location as well as how diligent one searches for an item. My experience is that they are available if you look for them in the right places. Clay/Lexi

Offline Daryl Chesterman

  • Posts: 554
  • Name: Daryl Chesterman
Re: 1958 series 62 front wheel brg #s
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2021, 09:09:17 PM »
Jim, the original ball style front wheel bearings were made by New Departure Mfg., a division of GM at the time. 

Daryl Chesterman

Offline V63

  • Posts: 1411
  • Name: W Link
Re: 1958 series 62 front wheel brg #s
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2021, 10:01:46 PM »
Didn’t 1959 go with tapered bearing technology?
couldn’t it be converted? Great improvement.

Offline Lexi

  • Posts: 2006
  • CLC Number: 28634
  • Name: C.R. Foley
Re: 1958 series 62 front wheel brg #s
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2021, 10:56:36 PM »
Jim, the original ball style front wheel bearings were made by New Departure Mfg., a division of GM at the time. 

Daryl Chesterman

Yes, some of the NOS items I found were in "New Departure" (GM) boxes, (for 1956 Cadillac). Ultimately it is up to Tom to decide whether he searches for uncommon NOS items or looks for more available newer replacements as noted and guided by Jim's post. Depends on his comfort level and what turns up in a timely manner. Clay/Lexi

Offline Daryl Chesterman

  • Posts: 554
  • Name: Daryl Chesterman
Re: 1958 series 62 front wheel brg #s
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2021, 01:41:02 AM »
Quote
Didn’t 1959 go with tapered bearing technology?
couldn’t it be converted? Great improvement.

1959 still had the ball bearings—tapered roller bearings started in 1960, according to my parts manual.  When converting from drum brakes to brake rotors, the rotors have tapered roller bearings.  Maybe someone else can weigh in on whether there is a direct conversion for the ball bearings to tapered roller bearings—I don't know of one, but would make the switch if there were such.

Daryl Chesterman

Offline fishnjim

  • Posts: 2433
  • Name: J. Bozin
Re: 1958 series 62 front wheel brg #s
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2021, 09:32:52 AM »
When I looked for front wheel bearings, they showed at that time, replacement rollers available for my '58.   But I stayed with the balls.   So long as the dimension are the same, I don't see any problem with either.   As you say, they might have '59 fitment so interchange? but never had reason to follow up.   I don't recall the bearing dimensions.
I'd have to locate my spare set.   
Only thing I knew "New Departure" for in the day, post war, was bicycle friction brakes, worked on many in my youth.   They were used on all the common bikes.  I only recall those 3 bearing brands in the aftermarket back then.   I blew that one from memory and not checking.
Usually, Cadillac had non-GM parts put into Cadillac logo boxes.  eg; I have a '58 water pump kit, and it's in a Cadillac box with cadillac part no..   That's so they could charge more for the part.   But you won't find that item today as a replacement part anywhere.   The pump seal is just not made and pump requires modifications to use new available parts.   I was lucky to come across it and bought for a possible reman someday.   
A variety of inputs is what you get here.   

Offline TomJudd

  • Posts: 133
  • Name: T Judd
Re: 1958 series 62 front wheel brg #s
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2021, 10:41:30 AM »
Greatly appreciate all the helpful input/info. Found the 909066 and 909073 sets( usa made nors on Ebay)$45 each. Mistakingly bought a 909072, commercial or 75 series, any one need the 909072 ? Also found the seals 7219s on ebay, $20 shipped. Bought centric hoses and front brake cylinders from rock auto. As I did in past will probably hone my wheel  cyls and use chinese cups, reuse original dust caps. . FYI ,after buying hoses, I located a guy on Ebay (good brakes- ebay name) in Michigan. He has/mfgs USA hoses/sets....$90 set of 4. Phone 616 836 7885.  I may just order them, send back Rock auto centrics ! More general info. Had Midwest power brakes in Florida,rebuild my Bendix Treadlevac, $625 shipped Beautiful quality workmanship. 4 week turnaround! Craig from McVey recommended. Thanks Craig. I also went with one of u guys recommendation  to send power antenna out for rebuild to Cadillac Tim in S Carolina, nice job, $175 shipped. He used a different motor, but for my build didnt care. See some on E bay for $1700, OUCH Thanks all, Spring is 13 weeks away !!!!!!
Torque it til it breaks , then back er off 1/4 turn !!

Offline fishnjim

  • Posts: 2433
  • Name: J. Bozin
Re: 1958 series 62 front wheel brg #s
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2021, 10:50:46 AM »
I went back to my log book, and found the grease seal #s.
Victor 46190, or SKF 19940.   Says I replaced, were bad.
if you need "dust covers" the only one's I found still made are for boat trailers.   Go to any trailer parts site and look for Fulton 2.25" dust caps.   Exact fit.
Couldn't locate the spare bearings, but not unusual with my parts island.

Now that it was mentioned, I think the bad bearings I took off were marked "new departure"(?).   I was struck by that then.  Age is taking it's toll on all those memory cells.   I didn't find the reference in my log, nor the old parts, but I'll search when I got more time.   Have appts today.   That was a hectic time, spring, easter, and I was trying to fish too, so log is not very complete.
I did all that early work/correspondence over on the "'58 owners club", so the archive over there is where all the info is.  I quit that over Yahoo take over and privacy/hack attack.  58 club split to Facebook and I quit FB before then for same reasons.   I think they still are going and one would benefit from access to the info. 
CLC needs to parts/info archive started over here.   I keep harping, because mostly rehashing/reposting old info on this forum.  Too much time spent here already, I can't get my work done.   I posted I was taking a stop but something seems to get in the way.

Offline V63

  • Posts: 1411
  • Name: W Link
Re: 1958 series 62 front wheel brg #s
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2021, 02:06:12 PM »
https://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=115826.0

👆🏼Conversion from ball to tapered Thread

Of particular interest is the post by “stampie” about the conversion very straight forward as my recollections are. Tapered are Far superior bearing technology.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2021, 02:10:42 PM by V63 »

 

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