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Keeping an AGM battery happy

Started by David Greenburg, January 25, 2022, 10:00:37 PM

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David Greenburg

I'm new to the world of AGM batteries, having just put one in my '60.  I know I need a new charger in the event it gets run down, and I know they are best kept on a battery tender if a car is in storage.  But I drive my cars at least weekly.  Does anyone know if a tender necessary or recommended for a car that is driven at least somewhat frequently?  I rarely have any problems with my conventional batteries unless I accidentally leave a door open etc.
David Greenburg
'60 Eldorado Seville
'61 Fleetwood Sixty Special

79 Eldorado

The best thing for batteries seems to be to drive (use) them regularly. I've had the AGM's go bad even on a tender. I then moved to the Optima branded chargers. I now like the Optima charger a little more but I've had Optima batteries go bad on their chargers as well. It makes me wonder if simply removing during storage might be a better idea. I had a lead acid Delco battery in my 2003 Sonoma, which I bought new, and the battery lasted until 2017! For a lot of years all I ever did was remove one terminal if I stored it.

People claim you can revive a dead Optima battery but I've never had any luck doing it.

The only reason I moved to AGM was because I stored vehicles and occasionally the battery would leach acid and damage any metal contacted beneath it. I always bought the best batteries I could find as nothing lasted long and so I wanted a warranty. That was before I started using a tender though. I do still keep my tractor on a traditional battery with the original Battery Tender Jr and knock-on-wood it has lasted. In fairness to the batteries I did have 2 Battery Tender Juniors seemingly go bad while in use.

It will be interesting to read the opinion of others.

Scott

Mike Josephic CLC #3877

#2
I use battery tenders and have done so for years.
I have 3 vehicles that are not driven often and
have no problems with these units.

Please note that "Battery Tenders" are not the same
as trickle chargers.  Tenders have a microchip circuitry
that keeps the batteries at the proper charge level
by adjusting automatically -- varying the charge level
as needed whereas a "charger" supplies a constant
voltage.  That can result in overcharging the battery.

The "Battery Tender Plus" units that sell for around
$50 can be used for regular or AGM type batteries. 
That's what I use since I have vehicles with both
types.
https://www.techbatterysolutions.com/deltran-battery-tender-plus-12v-charger/

Mike
1955 Cadillac Eldorado
1973 Cadillac Eldorado
1995 Cadillac Seville
2004 Escalade
1997 GMC Suburban 4X4, 454 engine, 3/4 ton
custom built by Santa Fe in Evansville, IN
2011 Buick Lucerne CX
-------------------------------------
CLCMRC Museum Benefactor #38
Past: VP International Affiliates, Museum Board Director, President / Director Pittsburgh Region

79 Eldorado

Just to be clear, when I wrote "Tender" above I was absolutely referring to the Deltran Battery Tender Junior. I've used them for over 20 years. The Optima charger uses the "same type" of logic; meaning it's at least not a trickle charger (Deltran may have IP on their exact technology). Deltran allows the battery to drop to a certain level before it starts to charge again. They claim it acts more like an alternator in a car.

I only moved to the Optima charger because when I started having issues with the Optima batteries, no real fault of the Deltran Tender other than possibly one Tender which failed, I didn't blame Deltran. I thought if the life was short on the Optima there would be fewer questions if I used their charger. I do like that the Optima charger shows more information but I've had some strange things occur. One Optima Red Top battery would charge to 13.6V and seem perfect. If I placed it in a car, and turned the key, it was basically dead. It wouldn't turn the car over and if you placed it back on the charger it read sub 10V but would then charge to over 12V again (Using a different battery all was fine). That problem battery was less than 2 years old. It was a car I rarely drove so the battery was on the charger with the output looking perfect. Optima finally credited me with a warranty but I bought it through Amazon and Amazon refused to take it back. If you read the Optima site it says you need to return to the place where you purchased it. I had the Optima website wording in front of me when I phoned Amazon and it was like speaking to someone simply not hearing and shaking their head No. Optima initially refused to take it and told me I needed to send it to Amazon. After spending a lot of time Optima finally backed it but I read the instructions carefully and Amazon was wrong. So the lesson learned is be very careful if you buy a car battery through Amazon.

Scott

fishnjim

I switched years ago and find them to be more robust than liquid cell.   I've rethought my battery management from the "old days".   I'm not sure of the cost/benefit/economics, seems like a wash, more up front, but the lack of hassle is priceless.
They hold a charge better and take longer to show discharge*.  No messing with DI water, overfilling, cap misting, corrosion, etc..   I've got a set(4) on the used boat, that are five years old and fully charge.  It sat at the dealers for 3 months or so.   I thought I was going to have to replace them but so far, no issues.   
I don't "tend" on the '58, I either unplug(long periods) or let it go down and charge it back up, if short periods(months).  One or two hours on the big charger and go.   I think you're better off, disconnecting during storage as the clock, etc draws a slow discharge.   Better to not discharge(cycle) at all.   But may not work for all, I'm retired.
* - when I first changed over, to test, I had one regular and one AGM feeding 24 VDC and the regular one would get depleted faster and hence took longer to recharge.   There's no alt/gen feeding the electric motor/batteries when the combustion engine is off, strictly powering off batteries.   Constant cycle of fairly high amp charge, discharge and they deal with it.   And the boat does not go out every day, and typically sits for 1-2 weeks depend on weather.   I usually check out of habit, just so I don't get stopped at the ramp.

Cape Cod Fleetwood

Best thing to do with an AGM battery is replace it with a wet cell. My car ate 2 (two) Battery Central AGM's, I wanted
to look "authentic" under hood. Wet cell Group 27 battery is on a $5 Harbor Freight tender... always starts,
never another battery issue. YMMV. The last 'authentic' battery was taken apart, the top was modified, now I have a
'battery topper' and look authentic. This topic has been beat to death here. Its like asking a group of dog breeders what
the best dog food is. You started another fur ball.
There are 2 kinds of cars in the world, Cadillac and everything else....

The Present -1970 Fleetwood Brougham

The Past -
1996 Deville Concours
1987 Sedan De Ville "Commonwealth Edition"
1981 Coupe De Ville (8-6-4)
1976 Sedan De Ville
1975 Sedan De Ville

The Daily Driver and work slave -
2008 GMC Acadia SLT *options/all

jwwseville60

This is what Ive been using for 12 years.
The best.

1960 Eldorado Seville, Copper, "IKE"
1961 CDV, gold, "Goldfinger"
1964 Eldorado, Turquoise, "Billy the Squid"
1963 De Ville Station Wagon Vista roof, silver blue, "Race Bannon"
1963 Fleetwood 60S, turquoise, "The Miami Special"
1959 Sedan Deville flat top, tan, "Jupiter-2"
1947 Caddy Sedanette 62, black, "Johnny Cash"
1970 ASC Fleetwood wagon, dark blue, "Iron Maiden"
Lifetime CLC

Ohjai

I purchase an Optima Battery from Amazon, it failed and no warranty.  It appears Amazon was/is selling reconditioned batteries, you can tell by the serial number on them.

'38 Cadillac Series 60 S
'41 Cadillac Series 60 S
2017 Cadillac CT6
'62 Buick Skyhawk Conv
'49 Bentley MK-VI  Sold
'53 Bentley R-Type  Sold
'66 Ford Thunderbird
'64 Rolls-Royce Silver Cloud III
'75 Rolls-Royce Silver Shad Sold
'78 Rolls-Royce Silver Shad II
'80 Rolls-Royce Silver Wraith II  Sold
'81 Rolls-Royce Camargue  Sold
'88 Rolls-Royce Corniche II
'89 Rolls-Royce Silver Spur
2020 Ford Escape

David Greenburg

Just to be clear, the battery in question is not an Optima or other spiral-wound AGM.  Its made by the mfr. of Odyssey, sold under another brand, and I'm not here to debate the wisdom of AGM's. I've made that choice and voted with my wallet. I know I need an AGM-compatible charger to charge the battery if/when it gets run down, and the Noco is on the short list, along with the BatteryMinder and a CTEK.  My concern, which I have not seen discussed either here or elsewhere, is whether it is a good idea to keep an AGM battery on some type of tender even if the car is driven weekly at a minimum.  I'm in a pretty moderate climate, where the driving season is year-round, and unless I'm traveling, its raining, or the car is in the shop, its going to get driven.  The only real issue is that, as many of you know, if the car does sit for a week or so, it can take a bit of cranking time to get gas up to the carb, which is one reason I wanted a beefy battery (930 CCAs/190 min res. cap. for this one).  I'm not real thrilled about having a charger running 24/7 in my garage if not necessary, due to fire hazard and energy consumption considerations.   
David Greenburg
'60 Eldorado Seville
'61 Fleetwood Sixty Special

59-in-pieces

From the book of old and slow and tanga cuidado.

If you park head in against a garage wall.
It is "easy" to forget the tender, jump in the car - fire it up, and try to pull out.  There is that moment when it seems tougher, - add a little gas - and snap, the cables brake.
How do I know - don't ask.
Sticky note on the dash - Yoh!! Dummy!! -  disconnect the tender.

Have fun,
Steve B.
S. Butcher

Daryl Chesterman

QuoteFrom the book of old and slow and tanga cuidado.

tanga cuidado?  My Spanish translator says this means "careful thong" ;D ::).  I think you mean "tengo cuido", which means, "be careful".


Concerning the use and charging of AGM batteries—When I worked at NAPA, our battery rep told us the worst thing for AGM batteries was charging them in excess of 15 volts as it severely overheats them and rapidly ruins them.  The desirable charge-rate for AGM is 14.5 volts.  I really like the Red Top Optima batteries because there is no corrosion on the terminal clamps to contend with.  More money initially, but properly taken care of, they will outlast most wet-cell batteries, and the cost per year will be less.

Daryl Chesterman

jwwseville60

#11
Except for the 6V version, every OPTIMA battery Ive owned has only lasted 1-2 years. They were made in America, then they moved production to China.

Interstates are made in China. Thats sad.

The only USA-made lead acid battery is DIEHARD GOLD. (I believe). They're good.

Odyssey batteries were developed for race cars and the military. Worth the money.

I also advise putting in a decent race-style in-line battery switch (Red), I have one in all my cars.
AFCO or Longacre. 2 or 4 post.

Dont use the small brass ones on the post terminal with the green or black wheel. They wear out eventually and you have to replace the whole unit which is a pain. $10. Cheap BS.

Sadly, my experience over my 60 years of life is that all batteries go bad, even Odyssey ones. It makes no sense, some last 8-10 years, others 1 year.
If anyone has an answer Id like to hear it. I go through 3-5 batteries a year.

Most car battery deaths can be traced to five common causes:

Cold Weather
Time
Corrosion
Electronic Drain
Parasitic Drains





Where Are Diehard Batteries Made?

It is difficult to confirm the current manufacturing location of Diehard batteries since the new manufacturer Clarios LLC has not revealed the details yet.

However, Johnson Controls used to have manufacturing facilities all around the world.

Johnson Controls had manufacturing plants and operational facilities in the USA as well as Australia, Germany, Mexico, Austria, Belgium, Brazil, and China.

Most Diehard batteries were reportedly manufactured and assembled from Johnston's USA plant, which was in Wisconsin.[/I]

https://www.motoraudit.com/who-makes-diehard-batteries/
1960 Eldorado Seville, Copper, "IKE"
1961 CDV, gold, "Goldfinger"
1964 Eldorado, Turquoise, "Billy the Squid"
1963 De Ville Station Wagon Vista roof, silver blue, "Race Bannon"
1963 Fleetwood 60S, turquoise, "The Miami Special"
1959 Sedan Deville flat top, tan, "Jupiter-2"
1947 Caddy Sedanette 62, black, "Johnny Cash"
1970 ASC Fleetwood wagon, dark blue, "Iron Maiden"
Lifetime CLC

Mike Josephic CLC #3877

David:

To answer your question:

I have an AGM battery in my daily driver.  Since I
retired, my normal routine is to go out once per
week (grocery shopping).  Sometimes twice if I
need to go out for a doctor's appointment, for
example.  Total mileage per trip, about 15 miles.

I don't use a charger for this car at all here in PA
where temperatures get quite cold in winter.  For
example, it's 7 degrees outside right now.

Hope this helps!!

Mike


1955 Cadillac Eldorado
1973 Cadillac Eldorado
1995 Cadillac Seville
2004 Escalade
1997 GMC Suburban 4X4, 454 engine, 3/4 ton
custom built by Santa Fe in Evansville, IN
2011 Buick Lucerne CX
-------------------------------------
CLCMRC Museum Benefactor #38
Past: VP International Affiliates, Museum Board Director, President / Director Pittsburgh Region

J. Gomez

Quote from: Daryl Chesterman on January 26, 2022, 06:15:19 PM
tanga cuidado?  My Spanish translator says this means "careful thong" ;D ::).  I think you mean "tengo cuido", which means, "be careful".
Daryl Chesterman

Daryl,

Small correction "tenga cuidado" would be the correct expression, which translate "be careful"..!   ;)

David,

The issue with any battery AGM, EFB or wet cell if the vehicle is driven regularly with enough time to at least charge the battery (no 5 mins drive around the corner) there should be no need for a battery keeper/maintainer.

The AGM would tend to keep the charge a bit longer than the regular wet cell type and they are also sealed as an added safety, so any trickle charger would be safe if left 24/7. So unless you have a "parasite drain" that could drain the battery I would not worry in adding a trickle charged on them unless you keep the car in hibernation for very long-long periods.

Good luck..!
J. Gomez
CLC #23082

79 Eldorado

I would agree if it's driven every week there should be no reason to place it on a Tender, NOCO (I have one of those as well but not a lot of experience with it yet) or Optima charger.

During much of 2020 and 2021 I drove my Sonoma about 1 time per 1 to 2 weeks and never an issue with the Red top. I started storing it in the winter for the first time at the end of 2020 and it sat 5-6 months with an Optima charger and one of the cables disconnected. That's the way it's sitting right now... next update around June when hopefully the massive amounts of salt are finally off the road. I need to verify but I believe it's a 2017 battery.

I wish they made the spiral wound Optima so that you could replace an individual cell. I've had some where I was convinced it was just one bad cell.

Someone commented above about decoding the serial numbers. I seem to recall one Optima which I couldn't obviously find the date. If there's a simple explanation on the serial decode, like a VIN decode, I would be interested in knowing.

Scott

dadscad

Hi David, I have been using the battery minder chargers for my power sports and auto batteries for several years. Some batteries are agm sealed valve regulated, some are flooded wet cell. The charger I use for my 63 is a 12v maintainer chager switchable for different types of batteries. I attached the owners booklet for your study. Battery minder makes a very good maintainer. HTH.
Enjoy The Ride,
David Thomas CLC #14765
1963 Coupe deVille

59-in-pieces

Thanks J. Gomez for the same - even with the typo.

But I got a chuckle out of Daril's response. OOOOOP typo again - Daryl.
And, how did that THONG get in my car.

Have fun,
Steve B.
S. Butcher

David Greenburg

Thanks for all the helpful input!  Sounds like I should be fine without a tender.  My schedule sounds a lot like Mike's only without the single digit temps. At least during the day, about the coldest I or the car have seen is around 45, and that's unusual.  I will still need to pick up an AGM compatible charger just in case it gets run down.  Besides, while my conventional charger works fine, its so old that it's not automatic; you've got to keep an eye on it. So good excuse for a upgrade.

I do have a battery disconnect on the car.  Its a "Battery Brain" with a key fob remote, so its real easy to shut off when working on the car, or when parking unattended.  A few years ago, when installing that, I replaced the battery cables with some 2/0 gauge bad boys, and more recently added a Gener-Nator, so combined with the new battery, hopefully any future starting issues are minimized.  I have not found a thong in my car, but maybe I haven't looked hard enough!

 
David Greenburg
'60 Eldorado Seville
'61 Fleetwood Sixty Special