Low mileage original vs. updated mechanically driver

[billyoung]

I think a primary consideration in choosing a Classic car ( Cadillac's included ), is do you want a reliable classic/antique car that you can get in and drive with little concern that you may not get to your destination without braking down or are you searching for a very low mileage original that has not travelled any appreciable distance since say Jimmy Carter was in the White House that has factory date coded everything that if driven for any distance rather than being trailered will be a nightmare ?. Both cars will not ostensibly be cheap however for my money I would prefer an excellent driver over a museum piece. What say you ?.

[Deaf Paul]

I'm of the same mind - I'd prefer a mechanically updated car for the money as I'm more of a driver than a looker.

However, what gives me pause and also I suspect a fair number of classic car owners as well who elect to avoid driving or updating their cars is the potential hit in resale value for moving away from original parts and racking up mileage... I know that this is giving me several pauses as I try to decide what to do with my recently purchased '59.

Half of me wants to have that beauty LS swapped before I fly out to it to pick it up and drive it across the US before having it shipped home to Hawaii.  Caused me to have a sleepless night last night.  No more stressing about 91 octane, valve seats, having only 230 actual HP, overheating, etc.

-Paul

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

If this is a question the best way I can answer it is that my daily drivers are a 75 Coupe dEleganse, a 76 CDV and a 79 "Paris"'el Camino conversion. My race car (quarter mile) is a 73 CDV.
Greg Surfas

[dochawk]

as the late Carl Fielding commented on the lows mileage of his '27 . . . "they left them for me"

Personally, I figure the if my kids get 10k miles without major work after I go, it means that I didn't drive that car enough . . .

perfect timing would be that they all break down on the way home from my funeral!

[bcroe]

Resale value no issue here.  By the time I have added
another 300,000 miles or so, the body will be ready
for the crusher.  The drive train I have been keeping
in good repair, will come out for the next car. 
Bruce Roe

[Cape Cod Fleetwood]

DRIVE IT LIKE YOU STOLE IT

What's the point of having a cool car, new or old, if you're not driving it and enjoying it?
Why keep it 'nice' for someone else to enjoy?
The Ark will continue to be my 'daily driver' in the good weather even after all this body work and paint job.
There's a joke about driving classics and your girlfriends... if you know it, you know it. LOL!

[James Landi]

"There's a joke about driving classics and your girlfriends... if you know it, you know it. LOL!"  Laurie


I don't know the joke, but I do know the STRESS... that's exactly why we purchased the (new!) Allante.--- it's 34 years old and has been driven 56,000 miles.   Kristina and I feel so much more comfortable driving this convertible and not stressing about the XLR, (which is far more refined with only 33,000 miles).   

[Tom Boehm]

I think there is a difference between resto modding a car and making a very original time capsule car driveable and reliable. In addition to my Lasalle I have a non Cadillac 1973 "D". This car has been in my family since new and has had very little done to it other than maintenance under the hood and brake pads. Almost the whole car was original parts from the factory and had never been apart. But the car is 50 years old and stuff was wearing out mostly due to age. Plastic and rubber pieces just do not last even if the car has not been abused for example. I wanted to enjoy driving the car and I got tired of tolerating lots of things. This spring I did a mechanical restoration on the brakes, front suspension, and leaking radiator, transmission, and power steering.

My point in all of this is I kept it original as possible by having the original parts rebuilt. Starter, brake calipers, power steering system, gauge cluster, etc. Parts that cannot be reused takes some research because there are a lot of aftermarket parts available that have been re-engineered to be "better" but are not anything like the factory original. Some parts that were not reuseable I replaced with NOS ones.

[cadillac ken]

For me I'd say it's all about intended use.  Even the most expensive example (any old car) is going to need things as the years pass--- driven or garage queen.  Rubber gets old and hard, engine seals begin to leak, and even chrome plating will suffer from humidity. 

If you intend to drive and enjoy the car then I say (as Laurie has)  why build it or save it "all original" (as in Proper hose clamps, date code glass, etc.) for the next owner.  I would say consider the OHV engine cars as "modern" and more reliable and trouble free.  Keeping the original 331ci, 365ci, or 390ci in your 50's or 60's Caddy are all in my experience fairly reliable engines and can do highway speeds just fine.  Heck I once had a '47 Caddy with the original flathead V8 in it that I drove 30 miles round trip to work daily on the interstate.  Never had an issue. Replacing an original OHV engine with an LT or LS would be the last concern of mine-- unless the original engine is simply toast.

Now the older the car the more un-modern it is which translates into not so great brakes, acceleration, comfort, and more.  Something to consider.  I recently built a 1937 Cadillac coupe with all the modern stuff.  But unlike my '58 Caddy, there was very little I could keep on the '37 and consider it a car I could drive anywhere.  Mechanical parts for the '37 are both hard to find and expensive. Suspension, brakes, and rear are outdated and IMO not safe, or at the very least not practical, for a car you want to take anywhere.   

Of course none of this is a concern for a car you keep in town and drive only sparingly to shows. 

The "low mileage" thing can be deceiving. No car despite the make, likes to sit around. The last car I bought was 18 years old and had 24K miles on it.  I was warned by all those in other club I'm in not to consider a low mileage example, say, under 5K miles.  Lots of problems reported on cars that were simply not driven enough.

Show cars, all "original", are nice to see.  But truthfully they are just that.  Drive to enjoy a "show car" and it won't me a show car for long.  And that is just not my idea of this hobby.  Just my 2 cents.

[James Landi]

"Show cars, all "original", are nice to see.  But truthfully they are just that.  Drive to enjoy a "show car" and it won't be a show car for long.  And that is just not my idea of this hobby.  Just my 2 cents."

This is logical and is  entirely reasonable.   This past weekend, Kristina and I made the decision to purchase the well preserved, low mileage garage queen --- this couple won several awards 2 decades ago, and now, with 52,000 miles, they sold the car to us for the same price of the ALLANTE, same year, with 122,000 miles!  That car has been with the same owner who drove it and enjoyed it and kept it in wonderful condition as well, but he drove it every summer.  Having spent time with both owners, the major, similar regret focused on selling well running, well preserved ALLANTE's for $6,000, but both owners wanted their pride and joy to be purchased by an appreciative, caring owner. It is a disappointment that there are not many folks clamoring and driving up prices on these cars. Living, as we do, in our contemporary economy, change whipsawing us all, we must be settled on enjoying what we can enjoy and not live with anxiety and/or regret for feeling and behaving  as we do about our favorite hobby...   James

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Where is it written that a car can't be a low mileage original in order to be reliable?

Point 2: Restorations deteriorate far more readily and rapidly than unrestored originals - as a general rule.  Why? Because a rust free original paint car hides nothing. With a redone car you can never be certain whether rust was repaired and how long it will remain looking as it does now. How long before the paint starts deteriorating because of some fluke on the prep work, ambient weather conditions or variation in the finishing materials themselves. This is no reflection on the restoration shop or the quality of its work; it's just a fact of life: Time stands still for no restoration.

William Henry Vanderbilt was an avid art collector but his collection had been criticized for not including works from some of the great 'olde' masters.  Forgeries in the art world back then was common and wise old W. H. Vanderbilt wasn't having any of it. It was therefore his personal policy to only purchase artwork directly from the artist who created it. "That way I know what I'm getting."  It is the same reasoning why I like originals.

I also see nothing incongruous about preservation and enjoyment of a classic car. As to "driving like you stole it" - harsh driving may the requisite for some people to enjoy a classic car but not mine. I enjoy them most when driven and operated as they were designed and expected to be. I also tend to protect anything representing a sizeable investment and in my book turning a $20,000, $30,000...$100,000 car into a worthless pile of junk is either the act of a lunatic or moron. And if everyone had the same mindset about running a car into the ground and leaving nothing for anyone else, there would be no such thing as the old car hobby, now would there? 

[Jay Friedman]

My '49 is mostly original and I drive it frequently, including long distances.  Bought it in 1984 and had it re-painted, re-upholstered and the engine rebuilt.  I do the usual maintenance myself: grease, oil change, tune-ups, brake jobs, etc.

Improvements include:

a thicker front sway bar;
a 5 (rather than 4) bladed fan (taken from a parts hearse);
a modern radio/tape deck;
the muffler moved toward the rear so the front seat area doesn't get toasted;
brighter tail lamp bulbs;
supplemental grounding cable on the starter end frame;
automatic choke converted to manual;
neoprene rubber rear main bearing seal;
remote master cylinder reservoir (taken from a parted out '54).

Everything else is stock.

[76eldo]

I have two exceptional low mileage 1970 Cadillacs. 
One is a 70 DeVille convertible that is completely original and has 32,000 miles on it. 
After I bought the car about 10 years ago I drove it from my home in the suburban Phila Pa area to the GN in Boston.  The car ran great and I had no problems whatsoever. 

A few years after that I drove the car to the GN in Virginia.

The car won a preservation award at both of these events.  It's got the points and condenser and is the best running old car I have.  Reminds me of the one I owned in the late 70's. 

The other car is a one owner 15,000 mile black Eldorado with white buckets and a console.  That car does not get out much.  It's as if you were sitting in one in the fall of 1969. 

I maintain the cars and check the brakes, suspension and keep them properly serviced. 

The idea that you need Pertronix or an engine swap or fuel injection tk replace the carb is nonsense.  Do it if you want to but I grew up with cars that I worked on myself. 
Knowing how to use a dwell meter and a timing light were necessary skills. 

If we are talking about post war Cadillacs they were extremely reliable. 
People add aftermarket stuff and items like electric fans because they are masking delayed maintenance.  If the car runs hot there is a reason.  Fix it. 
If you don't know how to set points and timing then learn.  We certainly didn't have YouTube back in the 70's. 

These shows on TV where the say they need to put an LS  in the car to make it reliable are complete BS. 

I also drove my 60 convertible with factory tri power to the GN at Lake George. It's totally stock and original and has 100,000 miles on it. 

My 76 Eldo convertible also has just over 100,00 miles on it and i would drive it anywhere. 

Keep good tires on these cars and keep them in proper tune and you have no worries. 

[35-709]

   Hear, hear.
Although I do like my Pertronix ignitions.   

[Cape Cod Fleetwood]

I also see nothing incongruous about preservation and enjoyment of a classic car. As to "driving like you stole it" - harsh driving may the requisite for some people to enjoy a classic car but not mine. I enjoy them most when driven and operated as they were designed and expected to be. I also tend to protect anything representing a sizeable investment and in my book turning a $20,000, $30,000...$100,000 car into a worthless pile of junk is either the act of a lunatic or moron. And if everyone had the same mindset about running a car into the ground and leaving nothing for anyone else, there would be no such thing as the old car hobby, now would there? 

LMAO! Jeez Eric, jealous much? Calling me a lunatic or a moron? Is that best you can do? LOL!
Treat any piece of machinery like an old man, like yourself, and it becomes an old man. Do you think racehorses become superstars by just standing in their stalls? Ever done a 100-300K frame off restoration? Those cars are BETTER than new with modern parts, paints, etc. I've only spent 50K on The Ark, I could spend more, I still might. But for right now, he's a MONSTER. Because I *DRIVE IT LIKE I STOLE IT*

And I like Pertronix too. MORE POWER getting to that Reid's Automotive engine that showed me another 60hp and 150ftlb torque on the dyno. "Jimmy, how fast will that car go now?"  "You'll run out of nerve before you run out of engine."
And he was right....   

If hadn't been beating on that 100K+ mile engine, we never would have heard that rod start to tap. Fortunately happening in the spring of 2020 when they just cancelled all the car shows for the flu. Engine ripped out, completely rebuilt including the QJet, EVERYTHING brand new in the engine at the best speed shop in the NE. And Jimmy said that car had 200K (at least) on the engine. Sorry, not sorry.

If you don't BEAT on your car, you'll never know where its mechanically weak. Until you're 100 miles from home going a breath taking 25mph on a 60mph hour highway and that red light comes on, or a wheel falls off, or the steering seizes... or...

Shake 'em up and shake 'em down. The 53 year old Ark is BRAND NEW from the fueling port all the way around to the exhaust, tranny, drive shaft, rear end, every pump, the entire brake system, front end, springs, shocks, brand new... The starter could bite me in the butt at some point, the car fires up immediately. But its a replacement and we don't know how old it is, maybe I'll just do it 'because'....

How far do you feel 'safe' driving your car? And you have to be going faster than 25 on the highway. 

DRIVE IT LIKE YOU STOLE IT 

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Wait till you get your first stone chip in the paint.   There will be many more.

Bruce.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Treat any piece of machinery like an old man, like yourself, and it becomes an old man. Do you think racehorses become superstars by just standing in their stalls? Ever done a 100-300K frame off restoration? Those cars are BETTER than new with modern parts, paints, etc.

The exercise appropriate for an Olympic trainee isn't the same for the average octogenarian and comparing antique cars to race horses (or race cars for that matter) is equally silly. Restorations may be prettier but what makes for greater overall desirability is a far more complicated question.

And just because a car has a six-figure "restoration" doesn't mean anything. A restoration is only as good as the knowledge behind it. And that again is where originals are relied upon to set the bar.

*BTW You're older than me so what does that make you?

[billyoung]

Hi everyone, " Put the knife down " sorry I did not want to start a problem, just see what others opinions were.

Bill

[Cape Cod Fleetwood]

*BTW You're older than me so what does that make you?

Wiser

[Cape Cod Fleetwood]

Wait till you get your first stone chip in the paint.   There will be many more.

Bruce.

Let's hope so, proof I DRIVE THE CAR.
And that's already been built into the annual mntx routine, a spring trip to the local shop
that mixed the paint will do touch ups where necessary. I'm not spending all this money just
to dust it and look at it honey.