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RARE 1957 ELDORADO FOR SALE ON EBAY???

Started by Paul, January 03, 2005, 04:57:09 AM

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Johan 158

There are several ways of having your fun, I could tell you a few.
The use off the Cadillac DATABASE, whats in a Name,is
I think the least wanted one, for what ever kind off fun,a love a good laugh, but fail to see one, I believe this is the fastest possible way of destroying the thru nature off all your efforts.

mike baillargeon

Its going to hard to find more info on some back garage custom chop shop.

Derek J. Sherwood, CLC #18781

I have to say that single post destroyed most, if not all, of my faith in the Cadillac Database.  

To say that you included supposed "facts" just for fun in what was supposed to be a legitimate and definitive reference item pretty much ruins any semblance of credibility that the Database might have had.  

On a much less serious level, it is akin to Scott-Foresman textbooks coming out and saying they "invented" Amelia Earhart, or Johnny Appleseed, just to see if they could get people to believe it.  

Im sorry, but that is a real shame.  And this after all of the constant (self-promoting) flogging of "what a great reference for Cadillac lovers the Database is, everyone should read it, la la la la."

Regards,

Derek

Bob Hoffmann CLC#96

Richard, you mis-read my post. I did NOT say you had Mickey Mouse Mentality, but was referring to the persons that DID that kind of work. I think Yanns post sums up the information you need. Regards, Bob

Lou CLC19028

The Cadillac database is now the property of the CLC museum. This kind of admittance of knowingly falsifying information for self amusement should not be taken lightly. It jeopardizes the credibility of the entire body of work and the CLC museum. It is my opinion that full disclosure in regards to this matter is in order.  Quote from Yann "So, folks, dont believe everything you see in writing. It could be that nutty Yann Saunders gay just testing your credulity ! "  AMEN to that.    

Derek J. Sherwood, CLC #18781

I forgot that the Database had been handed over to the CLC Museum and Research Center.

Full disclosure is imperative, if there are more "Easter Egg" falsehoods like this one, it does a great disservice to all of the hard work done by the CLC Museum, as well as all of the legitimate good donations of people who thought they were doing something  to promote Cadillac history.  

Regards,

Derek

gerald

I do not know why Yann made this joke, I have not read the discriminating passage so I cant judge... I know from other passages of the V16 chapter that he used  a narrative style with some "fictious" elements and clearly stated so. Maybe this came from such a story? We all should read this before we shout out, maybe its very obvious!

Yann did an amazing job in compiling the Data Base. It needs an enormous amount of work and dedication to do something like this. Remember that this is a one man project!!  There can always be some errors in any database and there are some smaller errors I´m aware of (have reported them to Yann), but can you imagine how much work and time it is for Yann to correct all of them? He also got a life to live ;-)
If you want it to be 100percent accurate you would need some lectors to read over it and do the necessary corrections...

Thank you Yann for your great work! I´m with you.

Best regards,
Gerald

gerald

From the Cadillac Data Base -  this should clear things...: Looks like Yann made his joke back in the 80s - even before the Data Base was up...

http://www.car-nection.com/yann/Dbas_txt/16hrtm.htm TARGET=_blank>http://www.car-nection.com/yann/Dbas_txt/16hrtm.htm

The striking resemblance between the Hartmann Cadillac  and the Figoni and Falaschi Delahaye was one of the reasons why a rumor spread in the mid-eighties that, in fact, the car had got a genuine body by the Italo-French  coach-builders. That story was blown up and propagated by the popular French monthly car  magazine Nitro, which added (to compound the myth) that the car had been  specially built for South-American tin magnate, Simon Patiño.  The latter  mis-information later was deformed and re-cast as the incomprehensible Betino Tin  Magnet (???) in a Tom Barrett III ad published in April 1987.  Barretts many  ads published through 1989 frequently misrepresented the car and mis-spelled the F&F  names; rarely was the (then unknown) coach-builder, Willy Hartmann, ever mentioned. These  are excerpts from the Barrett ads (spelling errors included): (i) Fagoni-Flaschi  designed, (ii) Figoni and Falaschi body, (iii) body by Figoni &  Falaschi, (iv) design by Fagoni/Falaschi,  (v) body by Figoni and  Falaschi or (closer to the truth) (vi) body by Hartmann, design by  Fagoni/Falaschi.

You should read before you cry and appologize!!

Best regards,
Gerald

Gerald

Also from the database:

On October 22, 1987, I wrote to the Barrett-Jackson organization and made a  point of correcting the myths that were being propagated about the car. I provided  ample documentary and photographic evidence (1) that the Hartmann V-16 did NOT  have a body by Figoni & Falaschi and (2) that it had NOT been built for Simon  Patiño. My letter was never acknowledged. The auction people were not about to publish  the real facts about the car ...and thus diminish its "worth" in the eyes of  potential buyers.

I think there is not much more to say in this matter...
Yann please keep up your great work!

Best regards,
Gerald

Johnny

[ You should read before you cry and appologize!!]

I dont think so!  There is so much to know about the history of Cadillacs, and most of us just dont know everything.  We look to places where we think we can get 100percent reliable information. Since I came on line, I have used the Cadillac Database as my "Bible" for Cadillac information.  I am sure there may be other mistakes in the Database, but I would hope they would be of the UNintentional type, not intentional misinformation.

Johnny

[Yann did an amazing job in compiling the Data Base. It needs an enormous amount of work and dedication to do something like this. Remember that this is a one man project!!]

Yes he did, and everytime I refer to it, I am always amazed and thankful for the work he has done.  Just about anything you want to know about a Cadillac is there.  I understand that sometimes people that put things together like to have their little inside "jokes", such as Alfred Hitchcock, making cameo apperances in all his movies, or Playboy putting a bunny on each front cover.  I just dont see the need to fool around with facts concerning Cadillacs, especially the one he did with.

Gerald

Quote from: Johnny[ You should read before you cry and appologize!!]

I dont think so!  There is so much to know about the history of Cadillacs, and most of us just dont know everything.  We look to places where we think we can get 100percent reliable information. Since I came on line, I have used the Cadillac Database as my "Bible" for Cadillac information.  I am sure there may be other mistakes in the Database, but I would hope they would be of the UNintentional type, not intentional misinformation.

Johnny - again you should read carefully before you answer. You can clearly see that Yann did not put his joke into the Database!!! The wrong information is !!NOT!! in the database - he even explains the myth and tries to correct things! READ IT!

-Robt. Vonheck via SanDiego Calif.

-the oem/57Eldorado was a strange one from the getgo, --at the time it just didnt look right to most Cadillac followers, because the fins seemed to be growing out of the rear as a virtual after-thought;  --thus was a logical custom procedure to simply delete them entirely!  However, the basic finless smoothly-rounded trunk embodiment of this Sans-edition was a design quite faithful to that which had actually been kicking-around in Cadillacs/Design-studio for years; --so perhaps it should be considered as a viable part of Cadillac-evolution.  It is my guess, that this SansFins-edition was likely produced by a major/Cadillac-dealer(Oklahoma? Texas? LosAngeles?) -as befiting of their customer demands at the time....   ~Bob vH    

Derek J. Sherwood, CLC #18781

Toe the party line, and never admit that der Fuhrer might be wrong.

I took great pains to avoid personally attacking Yann, and merely said that from the text of his original post, it seemed as though the veracity of the whole Database was in question.  If he is inserting "facts" just for fun, then that needs to be dealt with.  If not, thats great too.  

I have a life also and I dont have time or inclination to search the entire Database to "disprove" statements that Yann made himself about information he put into his Database.  

The original Yann quote:  "Just for fun, I said that the car had been ordered by Patino, a tin magnate."

Derek

Alfred Bradshaw

There was an article in Automobile magazine a few months ago giving the lowdown on the design of these cars.  It seems that the entire design began as a joke cartoon of a potato with tailfins.  The rest is history.

Johnny

Here is the orginal message with my words in quotes:


He posted:

Its amazing what people pick up from my "Cadillac Database" ...and proceed to DEFORM !

"Should I not assume that he put the false information in the Cadillac Database?


 He posted:

Remember the 1937 V-16 convertible coupe by Hartmann (of Lausanne, Switzerland) ? Just for fun, I mentioned that the car had been specially ordered by Simon Patino, the South American tin magnate. This (deliberately false) information was seized upon and propagated by the french magazine , "NITRO".

It was picked up, even later, by the Barrett-Jackson folks who deformed it even further. We learned from them that the Hartmann car was a unique creation by Figoni & Falaschi and that it was built for a msyterious "Betino Tin Magnet" [i.e. Patino, the tin magnate !]

"Whose at fault here?  The French Magazine "Nitro" and the Barrett-Jackson folks, who took his information on "good faith" or Yann, who was having his little fun?  While it could be argued that both "Nitro" and Barrett-Jackson should have doubled checked their information, I guess they, like the rest of us, though enough of Yanns post to take it as "gospel".

He posted:

So, folks, dont believe everything you see in writing. It could be that nutty Yann Saunders gay just testing your credulity !

"People looking for information dont want to be tested on their credulity.  Most hobbyists like to know as much as possible about Cadillacs, and seek information from what the best possible sources.  We are not children and I dont feel as though we need to be shown a lesson."

Robt.Vonheck via SanDiego Calif.

Dereck:  -now why resort to absurd political/ethnic inferences; --well at least you didnt go so far as to slander the member by comparing him to someone with far worse ethics like T.Kennedy or BillClinton and his loyal party-line "I never had sex with...."   :-)  
~Bob vH

John Tozer # 7946

I find the whole manner and haste in which this post has become an attack on someone that has done an extra-ordinary job for this Club a disgrace. There is clearly no basis whatsoever for the criticism of Yann PROVIDED you take two minutes to check the Database.... even if you have got a busy other life to attend to!

This forum, which used to be a "must see" is rapidly becoming a "must avoid"!!!!!

Johnny

John Tozer:  I just love that first name.  You see the posts as being "attacks", I dont.  I can only speak for myself, and I was simply stating an opinion.  I think I have already stated that I have always been overwhelmed with the "Cadillac Database" and its unlimited information concerning all facets of Cadillac.  The "baisis" of my posts is that I feel sort of betrayed by what he posted about his "fun" post.  Knowledge and information is power, and I want my information to be 100percent correct not 99 44/100percent pure.  I will confess to having a higher standard, such as Cadillac does, for my information.  I have no negative feelings toward the poster, I have no hatred, contempt etc.  I will just double check any information that I get from the database.

Rest assured I got a very enjoyable and pleasant life.  As for not using a surname, I choose to just use my first name.  There is just too much identity theft going on on the internet.  I would think with your first name, you would be glad to see it....

wm link

My father told me about a good friend of his that had a 57 Eldorado and that the car was rear ended while the car was fairly new.  The body shop solution, money saving too, was to simply cut off the fins rather than repair them. It would be interesting to find out if the car was originally from Iowa...I would gather from the rust it well could be.