Buying a project or trouble?

william hunter · February 28, 2005, 12:25:10 AM

I am looking at a possible project car.
1927 Cadillac Cabriolet 5 passenger coupe
Fisher custom body
138 inch wheel base.
The car is in storage, but I am told that it runs.
It will be weeks before there is any chance of seeing the car in person.
What should get special attention during inspection?
I need to be prepared.

JIM CLC # 15000 · February 28, 2005, 12:38:17 AM

02-27-05
WILLIAM,if I were considering a grand old car of that year, I would be concerned about it being ALL There.
If the engine is free to turn, consider that a blessing.
If the wood is in good shape to copy, that is good.
If the Uphosity is gone, so be it, they were simple in those days, sould not be hard to re-upholisty.
Parts should not be to hard to get.
Good Luck, happy restoring, Jim

Matt Harwood · February 28, 2005, 08:48:59 AM

Here are some articles Ive written that may be of assistance:

http://www.harwoodperformance.bizland.com/1941buick/technical_articles.htm TARGET=_blank>http://www.harwoodperformance.bizland.com/1941buick/technical_articles.htm

The top one specifically deals with what to look for when shopping for a "new" collector car.

Hope this helps.
--
Matt Harwood
Cleveland, OH
My 1941 Buick Century restoration:
http://www.harwoodperformance.bizland.com/1941buick/index.html TARGET=_blank>http://www.harwoodperformance.bizland.com/1941buick/index.html

william hunter · March 26, 2005, 09:26:17 PM

This is the VIN# 172S0070075D I was given from the owners title.
Does anyone have data on this car?
Thank you.

William Hunter · August 27, 2005, 10:45:50 PM

william hunter · August 28, 2005, 12:12:45 AM

Bruce Reynolds # 18992 · August 28, 2005, 03:12:56 AM

Gday William,

Very nice car, and it is good to se that there is someone else out there that likes taking pictures from all angles.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

Ken Andersen # 21420 · August 28, 2005, 06:40:48 AM

William,
It really depends about how passionate you are about the restoration project. I purchased my 1928 Fisher 7 Seater Sedan, after falling in love with it. I have now gone 25K over budget and still going. Have a look at my project on the Photo Gallert under 1920-1929. Mine was a basket case right from the word go. No timber, no jewellery, just the rinning gear and the panels. How far do you want to go? How far gone is the car?, Are you buying a complete car? How many items are missing? For 1927, 1928, 1929, Cadillac, there are basically no parts around at all. I know, because I have searched for 3 years, bought up every 1928/29 part that I could lay my hands on, & I still need more. The rarer the parts the more you will pay through the nose. I just payed two weeks ago US$750 for a part I have never seen on any Cadillac of the vintage years as described above. This part was thrown away by the mechanics of the era, so I was damn lucky to get it. But them, I am restoring mine back to factory original, so I do want all the parts. ANy questions feal free to email me.

Ruben Massa · August 28, 2005, 12:13:23 PM

Runnnnnnnnnnnnnnn VERY FASTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!

Porter 21919 · August 28, 2005, 01:01:23 PM

You would be buying both, all depends on what you want.

Do you want a hobby project car that you will spend 2,000 hours restoring, assuming you have the resources $$$ , the equipment and the skill to complete the project ?

If that is what you want and the car is reasonably complete then consider it.

Oh well, back to my 67 CDV project car front end work.

Porter

JIM CLC # 15000 · August 28, 2005, 03:45:04 PM

08-28-05
WILLIAM,
I just re-read my post and would like to change one statement.
I said "parts sould not be hard to get".
I would like to change that statment to: parts are hard to find.
Having said all that, If I were still in my fourty, I would not hasitate to take on the task.
Good Luck, Jim

Joe R #20442 · August 30, 2005, 11:48:22 AM

I am no expert by far, but I spent 4 years helping restore 2 early MGBs as a teenager, and spent 2000-2004 finishing a 63 convertible that was 80percent completed when I bought it. Knowing what it took to restore those cars, given the condition, general ease of finding parts/getting technical assistance, I would be reluctant to cut your teeth restoring a car like the one you are looking at. I am sure guys out there have done it before, but I would suspect they sit pretty high on the talent list!

It might be one of those..."if you need to ask the question, you may already have the answer." If you decide to pursuit this project, I sincerely wish you well. When you finish it, you will have the experience of a lifetime!

Joe R

dale jackson · September 05, 2005, 03:41:29 PM

Boy that needs an lot work. I learned from trying to restore an 1962 and 60 eldo convertible. I can go buy an frame off restored 1960 cadillac for 75000 thats perfect. I talked to restore shops they want 80000 plus parts to restore.

On finding parts be prepared look and look have to wait forever to find an certain part you need. Some parts to my car I had wait over year before I found them or when I found them overpriced junk and I had buy them since I had no parts to use.

I looked at about 10 cars out there in past few years and found one or two other cars out there worth restoring. Lots worth heavy rusted or parts missing.

Ask your self one thing I never did before I spent the money to buy my two cars. Can spend time doing it and have thousands to buy tools like engine hoist , paint machice , welders on and on to rebuild an old car. Its seems these days the onley way its worth restoing an car if already own an bodyshop and have thousands dollers worth tools already.

My 1960 eldo history .

1. the first ownoer started the restore since he liked those old cars so much. He took the car all part and spent thousands of dollers replating trim etc. He could not finish the restore since he started the restore in 1980 something. He gave up and sold in 1997 in an million pieces

2. The secord guy in 1997 tryed to restore car . He sent car to an restore shop. They riped him off big shop and lost tons of parts . He went and bought tons and tons of parts to build this car. He gave up and let it sit in wharehouse paying rent for years. After he payed rent for 6 years to store is car and parts. He wasted so much money . He could have paid the money and bought an car already go that was already frame off restored. After paying rent etc. That man never could find all its parts since it limited edtion car. He could put car back tothethor since he was not the one who took apart and did not know wiring etc. He gave up big time.

3. I am third guy to trying rebuild this car. I bought car in march 2003. I was conned in buying problem for car for 11500 with its parts. I did not the true cost of restore. I thought I could rebuild it 20000 but real world figures it was for 55000 plus parts etc. My car has been parts for over 20 years. Its so bad and so many parts were lost etc . I started selling parts on ebay last year and using the money buy and search forever for its parts. I spent maybe 2000 or 3000 on phones calls. I looked and looked for last two years for parts to rebuild.

My car can onley be rebuilt if pay 75000 for an 1960 eldo just study it and use for wiring diagrams, tech details etc then sale it. I would need an car just look at and study it where I could put this giant puzzle back on raod. No parts were ever marked and cadillac never did stamp part numbers in there where you figure out what it. I have piles of 1959 thru 1964 parts . I dont have clue what the is or was. My car was 60percent complete when I started two years ago. I have never turned and wrench yet on the car since I been looking for parts. I would have to buy several other rustbuckets to use parts car. I cant find them when i do find the very expensive to ship from all over the usa.

I have maybe over 10k or 17k is this project car and I dont see an end in the money its needs. My car has depressed me so bad and made feal so bad after wasting all that money. I got upset so many times and even had family problems over my 1960 eldo problem. I have tons expert tell me I wasting my time.

I have tryed over and over to try sale this car and its never sales. I even tryed rig an auction with shill bidding to try dump it . My car has been net for over year trying sale it.

Beware on what can happen if buy that car by reading my story about my 1960 eldo. Before you buy it . I suggest you think real hard about it and do lots rearch and call the cadillac peaple who sales parts to see what say if they can even get or have parts. Gary at cadillac internationl can help, John at honest johns, Allcads in caiforna can help.

One last thing I have told my story about my life trying restore my super rare limited edtion eldo. Take to heart big time. Ask the peaple on this board they will tell all about my car since they got sick of hearing about. have fun dale jackson

william hunter · September 05, 2005, 07:09:39 PM

Answer RE:
Ask your self one thing I never did before I spent the money to buy my two cars. Can spend time doing it and have thousands to buy tools like engine hoist , paint machine , welders on and on to rebuild an old car. Its seems these days the only way its worth restoring an car if already own an body shop and have thousands dollars worth tools already.

The car runs and moves under its own power.

Thirty years master mechanic; I have compressors, massive tool set, paint and body tools, sewing/stitching tools and wood working tools.

My fear is lack of information, lack of value upon completion and basic authentic materials not available for fabrication.

#1. Are there blue prints for this car?
#2. Wiring diagrams repair/service information?
#3. What parts, if any are available?
#4. Cloth charts = authentic materials?
#5. Wheel spokes and tyres?
#6. What breaks all the time or needs special attention?
#7. What alterations will pass concourse, seat belts?

Can I replace most of the sub structure wood with plastic lumber, or do I need to stick with oak?

I would want to enjoy driving it on the road and go to Concourse dElegance also.

Andrew 10642 · September 05, 2005, 08:09:47 PM

William,

Only thing I can note is that the frames, I believe, were made of ash, which is an incredibly strong species of wood, much better tham oak. Ash is used for garden implement handles and ladders. Ash might be tougher to find because of the emerald ash borer, which has caused the tree to be eliminated in Michigan, I believe.

I hope you go for it because I always enjoy your postings on the Mercedesshop forum, and would value your input here. Been waiting 6 months for my 91 300D to be completed by the friend I left it with (traded a W116 6.9 for it), and it should be ready next week. Im pumped!

Ken Andersen # 21420 · September 10, 2005, 06:29:57 PM

William, Yes parts are rare but if you wait they will come to you. Sometimes there is a feast other times a famine. Replace the original timber with white beech as I did.Much easier to work, very stron but light weight. They use it to make boat hulls out of so it is very water resistant. If you are goind Concourse do as I did. Do everything the right way. Have a look at my photos inthe Gallery 1920 - 1929 and you can see just what I started with

William Hunter CLC #21622 · October 17, 2005, 08:16:37 PM

I was speaking about this car at the last CLC meeting.
Some members wanted to look at the pictures.

Bill Sullivan · October 18, 2005, 12:32:18 AM

William:

I restored a 1927 Buick in similar but slightly better condition than your Cad. I found it to be lots of fun, even though it doesnt work financially. But I learned a lot and the car is a delight to own and use. It would have made no sense to have my car restored professionally, it probably would have cost 100K or more.

Your Cadillac is not a cabriolet, it is a rather plane jane 2 dr sedan. I doubt if this car would be worth much more than 15K even if restored to concours condition. It is no more work to restore a cabriolet or roadster, yet the final product is worth much much more. Also, pre 1930 cars tend to be relatively dull and utilitarian, hardly any chrome on them. They are not nearly as attractive as models from the early 30s.

Looks like there is some sheet metal missing in the rear, these parts will be very difficult to find. It is hard to even find documentation and photos from that era. It took me years to get info on my Buick and I am still uncertain about many features of the car. There are few experts around when it comes to restoring a pre-1930 automobile (except for Fords).

If you get a decent price (under 3K for sure) on the car and think you would enjoy fixing it up, using mainly your own time and skills, go for it! You will not regret the experience.

Bill.

News:

Buying a project or trouble?

william hunter

JIM CLC # 15000

Matt Harwood

william hunter

William Hunter

william hunter

Bruce Reynolds # 18992

Ken Andersen # 21420

Ruben Massa

Porter 21919

JIM CLC # 15000

Joe R #20442

dale jackson

william hunter

Andrew 10642

Ken Andersen # 21420

William Hunter CLC #21622

Bill Sullivan