Autoweek Poll pitting STS v. BMW

[Rich Sullivan CLC #11473]

It will only take a few seconds to click the link below and vote in the poll that pits our favorite marque against BMW--and at present the voting is 3BMW:1STS ! In Autoweek magazines recent article, they chose the 5 Series BMW over the V-8 STS. Please cast your vote for Cadillac:

http://www.autoweek.com/ TARGET=_blank>http://www.autoweek.com/

[Robert Koch 21150]

As of 10:08 PM, 3-9-05, the Cadillac is getting stomped. OUCH!

[Bruce Reynolds # 18992]

Well, I should think that Cadillac would be getting a hiding, especially since the Magazine is biased towards European-built vehicles.

You only have to look at the headings of their various article features, VW, BMW, Lambos, Masaratis, Volvos, etc.

I wouldnt think that many G.M owners would purchase that Magazine.

It is a wonder it isnt called "European Only".

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

[Matt Harwood]

At the risk of staring a flame-war, that sounds like a bunch of denial to me...

I think GM should take this as a brief lesson in marketing and public opinion. Im guessing that most folks answering the poll own neither the BMW nor the Cadillac. Nevertheless, the BMW has a vastly better reputation in the publics eyes, though the STS is certainly a worthy competitor. Regardless of a magazines perceived bias (and people have always claimed Car and Driver is paid off by Honda, Motor Trend is in BMWs pocket, always without any evidence), you cant argue with the publics perception. In the car business, perception IS reality. Right now, BMWs are preceived as more desireable than Cadillacs. Thats the situation Cadillac has to deal with. Thats reality. Sorry.

Ive debated this issue many times before regarding Buicks--there are Buick fans who slavishly adore any piece of crapola GM trots out and slaps the Buick emblem on the nose. They seem to think that being a Buick fan means loving everything Buick does, regardless of how poorly executed. To me, also a Buick fan, it means telling Buick that substandard product just wont cut it any more--I remember great cars coming out of those factories and I know they can do it again. They just have to try. I think you guys are having a little bit of the same "tunnel vision."

Cadillac is GMs lone recent success story. But it will take years to undo all the damage of the late 70s and the entire decade of the 80s. GM dropping the ball then is what allowed companies like BMW to become the juggernauts they are today. It isnt any magazines fault, its 100percent GMs. It will take year after year after year of solid, desireable products and competitive pricing (note: not DISCOUNTS, which are destroying GM right now). You dont rebuild an entire companys reputation with one or two cars, you do it by delivering the goods year after year. For every year of crappy Cadillacs, itll take three years of great ones to make up for it. Regardless of how wonderful the new STS is, they still have a loooooooooooooong way to go at Cadillac before the public will put them on the same level as BMW or Mercedes. Want proof? Three letters: XLR (see thread below).

Personally, I think Id rather have the STS over the BMW, but I apparently am one of the very small minority that actually gathers information and forms his own opinions. Everyone else seems to let the magazines spoon-feed their opinions to them (or at least thats what you guys are implying)...

Instead of blaming the messenger (AutoWeek), blame the General. Hes the one who built crappy cars for decades and tried to tell us it was OK to do so. That policy has come home to roost, and this is the result. Only time will heal that wound.
--
Matt Harwood
Cleveland, OH
My 1941 Buick Century Restoration:
http://www.harwoodperformance.bizland.com/1941buick/index.html TARGET=_blank>http://www.harwoodperformance.bizland.com/1941buick/index.html

[Bruce Reynolds # 18992]

Gday Matt,

The only reason I mentioned the "bias toward European makes" was by observing the advertised headings of the feature articles in the Magazine.

I suppose that we in Australia are lucky in one way that we never got to experience much of the self-destruction of GM in the Seventies, Eighties and Nineties, as we only had the Holden brand to contend with.

In the mainstream cars, the Kingswoods and Commodores, and boy, they had their faults, Commodores, that it, we still had, and have, rear wheel drive, 6 and V8 engines, a full range of performance vehicles, and the same from Ford.

The BMW and Mercedes vehicles were still in the Luxury class, and still are for the most part.

Our Holden Statesmans would be on a compareable class with the Cadillacs, and never have we had to suffer the front wheel drive era of these cars.

Holden and Ford were, and still are, making virtual race cars that can be purchased via the Dealer showrooms.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

[Mike #19861]

 I think it was Harlow Curtice that said "If you start mismanaging GM today, the results will not show up for 20 years"

I think that is being proven all to true today from the gross mismanagement policies of Roger Smith in the 80s. GM was still in fine form in the late 70s with their critically acclaimed and record selling products of that era.

 But  then, if it took 20 years for the results of poor management to show, will it then take at least that long to return them to health? I hope GM can survive.

  Mike

[Rob Gerace #16100]

Im afraid to say it, but GM is still losing ground.  Heres a NY Times article about it.  

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/11/business/11auto.html?ex=1111208400&en=5b36330e5b10b37e&ei=5070 TARGET=_blank>http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/11/business/11auto.html?ex=1111208400&en=5b36330e5b10b37e&ei=5070

Unless GM picks up the pace very soon, Toyota will be the #1 seller in the US, and soon after that, worldwide.  Only time will tell what their fate is.  

Rob
66 SDV

[Bruce Reynolds # 18992]

The only way for GM to retain leadership is to produce a vehicle that the populace will want to buy in place of the oppositions.

If, people see the Toyota brand as a viable choice, then there is going to be nothing that will stop them buying Toyotas.

Maybe, GM should buy out Toyota.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

P.S.   Toyota do make a good product, and are selling well in Australia.

[Johnny]

Just what is GMs problem?? Is it their quality? I was under the impression that in the last 10 years or so, the quality has been as good as the imports, and that people were buying GM products again. Their prices?  Maybe, a GM product is a few hundred more then the competition.  In the last week they have announced incentives of a thousand dollars on all vehicles that have been in inventory for more then 120 days.  If you have a GM card, and they have tacked on an additional 1000 dollars to  your rebate.  At least they are addressing the pricing issue. Styling?  I think this might be one of the biggest factors.  I have been a GM "fan" since the 50s, and have always considered GM to be the leader in styling.  As we all know its been quite awhile since GM has stirred the public with their styling!  First the imports had the quality, now they have the styling!  Corporate mentality?  I believe this is the biggest problem! It appears that they still have some of the old "GM mentality" from years gone by!  I think upper management still feels "Whats good for GM is good for America"!  I for one am greatly disappointed in Lutzs tenure.  Not only did he do away with "cladding" on the lines, but hes letting the rest of the line fall apart. Can a 73 year old man really be in touch with public tastes of today? Looks like Pontiac is the next to go!  They are doing away with the Bonneville, they have knocked the Gran Prix down a couple of notches!  Their hopes are resting on their new 2 seater the Solistice!  Sure its a beautiful car and will sell, but a 2 seater in a time when trucks account for half of sales!  Pontiac has already proved a failure in the truck market with the Aztec!  Of course Chevy hasnt fared  much better with the their "convertible" pickup truck.  It appears to me that the only line that is really addressing customers wants is Buick!  They have come out with the LaCrosse, a great sedan, they have 2 SUVs and one van, and are coming out with a great looking 2 seater.

For those that might think Im a GM basher, Im not!  Im still a fan, and put my money where my mouth is.  I have been buying GM stock for the last few months.  I still think its a great company, that can turn things around.  I am willing to take the risk with the company now.  I think the stock can have a nice price increase in the next year or two, plus right now it pays a dividend of close to 6percent.

[Denise McCracken]

   What would the populace want to buy?  I dont think that GM knows...they failed miserably at producing Japanese cars, and now theyre trying to produce European cars.

   A Toyota is a good car if you are small enough to fit in it, and if you like Japanese cars.  A Japanese truck is garbage, not fit for heavy hauling because the drivelines get too hot.  I wouldnt buy any Toyota or Nissan...the new "American" cars already look much too Japanese to me, and have the interior room to match.

-densie

[Bruce Reynolds # 18992]

Gday Densie,

One thing that I found whilst being gainfully employed, was that there wasnt a much nicer car to travel around in than the Toyota Camry V6 Station Wagon that was available to me during the last couple of years.

It had enough power to scoot along at the speed limit, and when necessary, it would accellerate to a much higher speed, even allowing for the light bar on the roof.   It was a very comfortable vehicle, and hed one of the better lighting systems on the market.   Could see for miles on high beam.

The Commodores were too skittish on the road at high speed, and the Falcons were a better handling car on the bends.

But, for an all round cruiser, there wasnt much better than the Toyota Land Cruiser Station Wagon.

Holden are having trouble over here, and the Toyota fit and finish is superb.

Now, as for the Holden Crew Cab "The Crewman", with the Chev V8, boy, I couldnt afford to ut the petrol in one, they are so thiresty.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV.

P.S.   I am not a salesman for Toyota, but have driven all types of vehicles available in Australia in my 32 1/2 years with Tasmania Police, and, there have been a lot of good ones, and the worst ones we will never forget. (The Holden Camira but you had that as the Cadillac Cimmaron)

[densie]

  How tall are you?  The biggest problem that I have with small cars, which AFAIK includes all new cars, is that the only way that a person of average or better height can fit in them is to recline the seat way back.  For me, this is a strain on the neck.  Its a little better if the car has a telescoping column (mine doesnt), but, still, I have this feeling that I need to sit up straight.  With the seat back upright, my head is in the sun visor, so I have to put it back and ride down the road in a recliner.  Great for watching television, not so good for trying to drive.

  To be fair, my husband, who is a little taller than me, doesnt seem to have this problem.  He drove my Grand Malarchy all the way to Dallas and back with the seat forward, his forehead nearly pressed into the windshield, and his arms slumped over the steering wheel.  I just cant do that...I want my 74 back.

-densie

[Bruce Reynolds # 18992]

Densie,

Sorry about that, but I was going to mention those facts, but my wife brought me my tea, and I forgot.

I am 66" and 250 pounds.

And, I hate to see "short" people driving any sort of car that is fitted with Air Bags in the Steering Wheels, as they have to sit so close so that they can reach the pedals, if they have an accident, they are in strife if it is severe enough to deploy the air bags.

Personally, I like to sit, comfortable upright, and the arms neither straight, nor too bent.   The elbow able to rest on the arm rest, and cruising with one hand touching the wheel at around 3 - 3.30, in RHD or 8.30 - 9 in LHD.   But, if I am driving with a purpose, always at 10 - 2 position,

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

P.S.   Baked Potato filled with Ham and Cheese was lovely.   The Garlic Bread was also superb.

[JIM CLC # 15000]

03-13-05
Denise, I am NOT a fan of the Japenise vehicles,but to be totally honest, Ive had two japenise pick-ups and a Honda car.
Both PUs would haul a more then a Chev 1/2 ton. The only PU that I have owened that would haul more was a Studbacker 1/2 ton, and Boy would it haul a heavy load of bricks. I would load on about 1000 bricks and it moved right-along.
The first jap PU was a 71 Datsum, with dual points,that kelp burning out one set until I put in a ballest resistor in series with the origional and that stopped the "burnt-points" problem.
With the 71, I hauled a lot of rocks, hard to say how heavy,but a lot.
I had a 78Chev. 1/2 ton, and it "bottomed-out" with about a  200 pound load. Not a great vehicle.

Sorry to hear that you are still having problems.
Good Luck, Jim