Author Topic: 1959 rare GM Motorama Cadillac on ebay - Bruce Berghoff  (Read 4647 times)

Paul

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1959 rare GM Motorama Cadillac on ebay - Bruce Berghoff
« on: March 23, 2005, 09:10:41 PM »



To all CLC members especially Bruce Berghoff.

Has anyone else seen the rare 1959 (1960) Cadillac convertible on ebay? The seller claims it to be a rare 1959 Cadillac convertible with a 1960 body which he says was "...on show at the 1959 Motorama at New York."

I am interested in this car if it is in fact a one-off.

However I am concerned about the following:

The seller states that the car is an original Brenton Blue car which was Brenton Blue at the Motorama in 1959. He has supplied letters to state that the car was an original Brenton Blue car at the show.  But he supplies on the ebay page the cars build sheet which clearly shows the car was originally Dover white body (12) with black/white interior (20).

The car is now red (repainted) and retrimmed (red/white).

Does anyone know anything about this car and why the build sheet would be different than the stated colour by the seller?

The car chassis number is shown as 59F042438, showing that it is a 1959 Cadillac convertible.

But it has a 1960 body. Would it be possible to put a 1960 body on a 1959 Cadillac at some later stage of the cars life?

The car can be seen at:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4537391857&category=6147

Any help would be most welcome.

Thanks,

Paul



Yann Saunders, CLC #12588

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Re: 1959 rare GM Motorama Cadillac on ebay - Bruce Berghoff
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2005, 09:44:57 PM »
Saw your query about that "1959" Motorama convertible. I have some serious doubts about the authenticity of the proposed car.

So far as I know there were only two "specials" at the 1959 Motorama: (1) the Cyclone concept car and (2) GMs "Firebird III".

I am naturally broad-minded and will certainly add this car to my "Dream Cars" page if and when the vendor can provide "real" authentification.

My guess (opinion only): the car was a real, Dover white 59 convertible with 2-tone black&white trim; body probably got bad; owner possibly found a nice 60 body ; did a switch. This transpires from the factory build-sheet.

Bruce Berghoff- #1476

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Re: 1959 rare GM Motorama Cadillac on ebay - Bruce Berghoff
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2005, 01:25:52 PM »
Goodafternoon Paul... Wow.... another $3 million dollar Motorama Dream Car appears from under the straw ???? I DONT THINK SO ! Regarding "from scratch" GM concept vehicles, the only one at the Jan. 59 Waldorf show was the Firebird III. While the XP-74 Cyclone had already been completed by Styling Staff in 1958, GM chose not to unveil it publically until late Feb. 1959 at Daytonas Speedweek. As far as a "Brenton Blue" beauty decked out with a 1960 convertible body is concerned.... I dont recall seeing any Cadillacs with modified fins at the Waldorf. Unfortunately I havent found my photos of the Cadillac Divisional room that would show their 4 or 5 displayed production cars. The only Cadillac in the Main Ballroom was a pearlescent white Coupe de Ville stripped of its drive train and lightened so it could be manipulated on the spectacular "grasshopper" animated stage. ( I hope my lack of recall doesnt cost some well intentioned seller $2,997,000.) !        Cordially... forgetful Bruce

Brian Laurance

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Re: 1959 rare GM Motorama Cadillac on ebay - Bruce Berghoff
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2005, 06:03:45 PM »
Among the supporting documentation included on the Ebay auction is a letter from a Michael Cohen, who claims to remember the exact date that he attended the 1959 Motorama.  The problem is that the date he identifies is October, 1959, at which time General Motors would have been introducing its 1960 models.  To my knowledge, there was no 1960 Motorama, and it makes no sense that GM would have scheduled its 1959 Motorama at the end of the model year.

There is nothing about this auction that persuades me that the car was a genuine Motorama car.

Porter 21919

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Re: 1959 rare GM Motorama Cadillac on ebay - Bruce Berghoff
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2005, 06:30:23 PM »
Most people here know all of this dealers cars are the finest in the land and either rare or at the very least meticulously restored with no expenses spared, henceforth the high "by it now" price. If at first you dont succeed just keep re-listing until you find a "smart" car collector with lots of money to purchase one of his collector Cadillac "gems".

Porter

Matt Mersereau

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Re: 1959 rare GM Motorama Cadillac on ebay - Bruce Berghoff
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2005, 04:44:39 PM »
I agree with Porter on the reputation of this eBay seller. His cars may look okay in digital photographs, but Ill bet hes responsible for many disillusioned eBay car buyers.

Porter 21919

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Re: 1959 rare GM Motorama Cadillac on ebay - Bruce Berghoff
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2005, 08:55:25 PM »
Matt,

I know a CLC member that purchased a "Pebble Beach" quality Cadillac from the above mentioned dealer, sight unseen or should we say photos seen. When the shipper delivered need I say it was an ugly experience.

Porter

Joe Abernathy #17524

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Re: 1959 rare GM Motorama Cadillac on ebay - Bruce Berghoff
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2005, 10:33:47 PM »
I traveled to Ft. Lauderdale several months ago to check out a cad this guy had listed.  After seeing the operation I can honestly say that I would not believe anything he told me.

Buyer be(very)ware!

Joe Abernathy #17524

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Re: 1959 rare GM Motorama Cadillac on ebay - Bruce Berghoff
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2005, 10:35:16 PM »
BTW...while I was there I saw the "Motorama car" as it was being built...I mean restored.

Charles D. Barnette #1465

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Re: 1959 rare GM Motorama Cadillac on ebay - Bruce Berghoff
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2005, 12:37:56 PM »
For reference purposes, there were only two official 1959 Motorama shows and both were held in late 1958. There was no 1960 Motorama.

robert p millian

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Re: 1959 rare GM Motorama Cadillac on ebay - Bruce Berghoff
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2005, 09:49:12 AM »
Paul

I just looked at the pictures of this car and all I can see is that the complete exterior body is that of a 60 cady series 62 conv. The interior door panels and seats is that of a 59. It appears to me that someone took a 60 conv and installed a 59 interior.

Bob

John Lawrence

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Ah!  another RARE collectible from the folks who use (or is it missuse?) Ebay.

I wouldnt accept this car as genuine unless it came with a letter from Cadillac with the VIN and body number on it.  Some nice black and white pics of it on the Motorama turn table would be good too.  

  All things being equal,  youd get a better bargain on Elviss last roll of Toilet paper or the Dorito chip that looks like the Popes hat.   Wait a minute?   most of my Doritos look like that!

John L.

Paul

  • Guest




John - ALL your Doritos look like that?

WOW!

You are sitting on a fortune. Ask the guy selling the rare Motorama Cadillac if he will consider swapping the car for your Doritos.

Ed Mobley

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Re: 1959 rare GM Motorama Cadillac on ebay - Bruce Berghoff
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2005, 10:17:27 PM »
Given the no expense spared $100K restoration, he could have obtained the proper hood insulation.  Whatever he put on there looks horrible.

Ed

JIM CLC # 15000

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Re: 1959 rare GM Motorama Cadillac on ebay - Bruce Berghoff
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2005, 12:08:17 AM »
03-30-05
ED, you will have to admit that the "hello officer red" paint job is a nice color for a conv.
Good Luck, Jim

John L.

  • Guest
Paul:   "Sitting" on a Fortune?   Maybe not with the Doritos, but if one to buy the Elvis Toilet paper......

       Why would someone restore a supposedly Rare car and then change the color to Resale Red?  oh wait... I just answered my own question again!

John L.

Yann Saunders, #12588

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Re: 1959 rare GM Motorama Cadillac on ebay - Bruce Berghoff
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2005, 02:21:25 AM »
The bidding has ended.  The reserve was not met.  The car has not been sold.  Im not surprised.  Look for it in a coming auction.

Joe

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Re: 1959 rare GM Motorama Cadillac on ebay - Bruce Berghoff
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2005, 10:52:30 PM »
This same car is advertised in the April Hemmings by Ludvig. Price? "Expensive" Hes got a full page ad....other cars too....

Yann Saunders, CLC #12588

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Re: 1959 rare GM Motorama Cadillac on ebay - Bruce Berghoff
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2005, 09:26:09 PM »
Sitting here in Bangkok, Thailand, examining with a fine-tooth comb the original press kit for the 1959 Cadillac models, belonging to CLC member Jean-Michel Roux.

There is nothing in there about any special Motorama car with a 1960 body and TV in the dash.

 

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