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55 brakes

Started by gerald ross, May 16, 2005, 07:59:34 AM

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gerald ross

i just bought a 55 convertible and find that i have little confidence in the brakes.  they stop...eventually, but do require not a small amount of effort and foresight, i.e. ive got to plan my stops and start them early.  my mechanic says that thats what was available with fifties technology, but i find that hard to belive.  if thats so, is there any way to "modernize" them?
gerald ross

Joe Abernathy #17524

Gerald,

Unfortunately your mechanic is right.  The brakes back then were nowhere near what we have today.  But back in 55 everyone else had the same system so it wasnt a problem.  Today you will be driving down the freeway in your Caddy and some idiot will cut in front of you and hit the (power disc) brakes.  BIG problem!

If you are not worried about car show judging, you can convert your car to power disc brakes too.

There is a guy in CA selling a disc brake conversion that has a booster that mounts on the frame under the floorboard so you can keep the stock appearance under the hood.  I believe it was designed for the 56.  I am adapting one to fit in a 57.

Ill get the info when I get to the shop and post it later.

gerald ross

thanks joe, thatll be a great help.  
jerry

baxter culver #17189

Sorry guys.  I dont agree with the diagnosis.  As one old enuf to remember these cars when contemporary, they would stop!  And it didnt take a sumo wrestler standing on the pedal either.  Grandmotherly types could easily operate the brake pedal and bring them to a quick and safe stop.

My 39 Caddy (weighes in at 4200#s)will easily lock up all four wheels, without a power brake booster, and without bending the brake pedal in two.

Check that all wheel cylinders are feee and fully functioning.  That the hydraulic fluid is clean and recent, that the master cylinder is fresh and that the lining is good and adjusted.  If it has a power assist, make sure that is working up to specification.  Then drive the car as it was built to be driven.
 
The major difficulties with old brake systems lies in their (1) single m/c arrangement and (2) their tendency to "fade" if used repeatedly (as in long downhill or mountain roads).  Disc brakes took care of most of the "fading" problems while the Feds mandated dual master cylinders back in the late 60s.

I would say you dont need to make any alterations to your brake system--and alter a beautiful example of Cadillac product--just find a mechanic who can restore your brakes to original specification.  And leave it original.

George

If as you say, you just bought the car. did you have a car with discs before?
You will notice a difference. When I drive my Econoline, the brakes are discs, my old Caddy uses drums, the difference is immense,even with the heavy van, but you should have no trouble stopping the Cadillac.
Strip the brakes down and take a look, make sure the anchors are free. Check the shoes are the right way round, ie primary to the front. Follow the previous advice.

r parkinson clc 12511

I have a 55 CDV and rebuilt the entire brake system, making new lines, installing new wheel cylinders, brake shoes, rebuilt booster, and a rebuilt master cylinder.  While the brakes dont perform like discs, they do stop the beast quite well.  I can lock up the wheels if I want to.  
The single chamber m/c still bothers me so I investigated a disc conversion.  There is a street rod brake company (ECI) that has developed a disc conversion package for about $1500.  It uses Seville front spindles and rotors.  You can still use the stock wheels without a clearance problem.  The big problem is how to mount a booster and retain the stock pedal linkage. This company has also developed an inline pressure multiplier which eliminates the need for a booster.  It is small and can be mounted almost anywhere.
The company is http://www.ecihotrodbrakes.com. TARGET=_blank>WWW.Ecihotrodbrakes.COM.
Their phone number is listed on the website.  
I have spoken with these guys and if I can ever cough up the cash I will probably get the package.

JIM CLC # 15000

05-15-05
Gerald,sounds like the brakes on your car need to have a complete "going-over"
"Kanter"has a kit that includes all the parts needed to completely over-haul your cars brake system.
BTW, they have an on-line parts catalog.
I found that the "disc" brakes didnt have the stopping power that the "drums" have.
The only advanage the disc have is that you can, in most cases, stop in a stright-line, even with "wet" rotors/pads, whereas with drums, if you drove thru water you had to "ride" the brakes until they dried-out.
Good Luck, Jim

Paul Flykt CLC 18899


Mike #19861


 I concur with the others. The original braking system on your car should be more than adequate. These cars did stop well and were more limited by tire technology of the day than anything else.

 They did fade when used to haul the car down from high speeds, or used repeatedly. Disc brakes for the most part eliminated this.

 I have owned and driven many cars with 4-wheel drum brakes. I rarely had an issue with them, unless they were out of repair. Around town, these cars stopped RIGHT NOW! Perhaps even  outperforming disc brakes. The power brakes on them could be overly sensative even.

 I would go over the brakes, repairing and replacing components as necessary. Be sure your mechanic is familiar with the old systems, or find someone who is. This is no place for unfamiliarity or incompetence.

 Once in good repair, you will be satisfied with them. But they still do have limitations. Make space for them and they will perform just fine.

  Mike

Rusty Shepherd CLC 6397

I noticed that he said that they required a lot of effort, so its good you mentioned that early power brakes (and later ones on Chrysler products)were often touchy, even more so than those on current Volkswagens and Audis (which seem to me to require less effort than any other modern cars). His current condition probably indicates he has a problem with the booster system, at least.

Joe Abernathy #17524

Gerald,
You can call Ron Metcalf at RPM Engineering 877-329-1886.  He can set you up with a power disc system for your car.  If installed correcly no one will ever know the difference but you.

As to all the others that disagree with me... he said it takes a little effort, not a lot, or a gorilla bending the pedal in two.  I never said that the factory system wouldnt stop the car.  Obviously it will.  But you cant tell me that the drum brake setup in a 55 Cadillac is equivilant to (or as some of you say better than) a 2005 Cadillac system.

I did a frame off resto on a 57 Cad a few years ago.  Complete new brake system.  New lines, wheel cyls, pads, blasted and painted/powder coated hardware,new drums, rebuilt master and booster.  The brakes would stop the car but I thought since they were power they should be better.  RE-rebuilt the booster, master, wheel cyls etc.  Bench bled the booster and the entire system as per the service manual, the brakes were the same.  They were OK but not very impressive.  I talked with several "old timers" and they all agreed that was par for the 57 system.

Like I said, they will work and stop the car, but if you are driving in city or crowded freeway traffic and someone in a small late model car cuts in front and hits the brakes, you are at a BIG disadvantage.

Joe (I wouldnt drive a VW or Audi) Abernathy

gerald ross

i thank everyone for their input.  i have oredered the brake rebuild kit from kanters, and if that doesnt bring the system to where i feel it should be the ill go with a modern (but hidden) system.
jerry

JIM CLC # 15000

05-18-05
Gerald, just a few more words on drum brakes.
You said in your last post that you had ordered the "kit" from Kanter. I thank you will be pleased with your drum-brakes after installing the new parts.
You may have to have the drums "turned", if you do, the brake-shoes will need to be "arched" to  fit the drums (so the shoes/brake-linings will make full contact  the  length of the shoes.
Also suggess that you flush the brake lines prior to connecting them to your new wheel cylinders.
Clean, assembly and adjust the brake components per the "service-manual".
If care is taken in following the instructions, I think you will be amazed at how good the system really is, just keep in mind that you will have very poor brakes if you have to drive thru standing-water until you "ride" the brakes to dry them out.
The best way to bleed the system is to have a helper pump the brakes whild you do the bleeding. Just make sure that he/she keeps the Master-cylinder full of fluid.
Good Luck, get a good-feel of the system,Jim

gerald ross

well, after reading eveyones valuable input (and after having had an old 57 chevy with drums all around that i converted to front discs) i went ahead and called rpm engineering and then ordered a disc conversion from ron metcalf after he told me that the cca allows such modifications...heck, even without that assurance i might still have done this and just driven the car, not entered her in any strictly judged competitions.  in any event i ordered only the front disc brakes, not the electric power booster (that can be hidden anywhere) that goes for another ~$800.00  i figured id see how well the new front discs do, then decide on the need for the power booster.  anyone out there having gone this route who can weigh in on the booster issue?
jerry