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Northstar in a 58

Started by Mike Bankes, June 21, 2005, 09:02:00 PM

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Mike Bankes

Hi,
I just wanted some background here on new caddies. Ive owned a 56 Coupe, 57 Brougham, 59 Convertable, and now a 58 Coupe. Up untill now Ive kept all my car origianl, but always toyed with the idea of a modified. Ive heard that a newer northstar engine is a good engine, and am considering putting one in my 58 coupe. The problem is I dont know a thing about new cadillacs. I know they have had some engine trouble, but I dont think the northstar engines. What years should I be looking at ? I found a 94 STS in my local paper, with high miles, but priced right, and was considering buying that car to cut up and put into my 58 ? What can you tell me about a 94 ? Thanks,
Michael

Michael Stamps 19507

The northstar is more of an HP engine and not a TQ engine.  I think a better engine for your car would be a good 68 to 76 472 or 500.  You need TQ to move your car.  Plus I think if you really research into the northstar you will find that they are not as great as made out to be.  Who wants to deal with all the expense when a 472/500 is so cheap and reliable.

Stampie

Mike Bankes

HI Agian,
Seems to me you are in love with the 472/500s Stampie. I am past the point in my life were I care about smoken the tires and stuff. I have seen some of those motors in the paper, and yes they are available, but it seems a northstar engine sounds better at the cruise nights :) As far as expense, I assume it would be more costly to actually get in the car and all hooked up, but I am looking at buying a complete STS for anywere from $ 1000 - $ 2000. Also, I havent checked enough to see how feasible it is, but my 58 needs a interior, so..... I was hopeing to get a STS with a good interior and put it into the 58 as well. The way I figure it, if I can get a motor, tranny, rad, interior, seatbelts ect out of a $ 1000 STS, that seems like a good deal to me. What I dont know is, arent those cars front wheel drive ? How do I deal with that ? Do I have to use a different tranny to go back to a rear wheel drive ? Also, I have found a 92 STS with low miles, but a bad tranny for $1000, a 94 STS with high miles, but good everything including air & tires for $ 1000, and a 97 smashed up, but with good engine and tranny, heated leather seats ect for $ 2000. Are all the motors the same for these year cars ? Or should I stay away from anything older than ? You know, sometimes you hear that the older ones had some problems, but they got that fixed in 19??. Any info like that would be very helpfull. Thanks

Lou 19028

Sounds like a good idea!!! Heres some pics of a rear wheel drive northstar conversion.  http://www.vilipend.com/~brian/NorthstartoFBodyengineswap TARGET=_blank>http://www.vilipend.com/~brian/NorthstartoFBodyengineswap Lot of folks doing northstar swaps.Do a google search.

Harry Scott

A couple of years ago I went to a shop in south central Pa and saw a 58 Eldorado with a Northstar installed. Im not sure which transmisson they used for the RWD hookup. It was a neat looking setup. I dont recall the name of the shop, but it was affiliated with Pipe Creek Trading in Taneytown, MD.

Tim Pawl CLC#4383

The Cadillac SRX and the new STS as well as the XLR use the rear wheel drive "LH2" version of the Northstar , should bolt right in ,trans and all.      Converting a transverse front wheel drive older Northstar to rear wheel drive requires new flywheel etc and throttle body will be pointed to the rear instead of to the front of car for good airflow... I have seen many of these done but why bother when the new rear wheel drive version is available.

Mike Bankes

What years are we talking about here ? How new do I have to get into to get a rear wheel drive STS ? Would 97 be new enough ?

Brad Hemingson

The easiest conversion would be a small block chevy. Every part under the sun is available cheap. Go with the modern vette set up with 700R transmission and EFI or a good old turbo 400 and a 350. You can get brand new crate engines cheaper than most Cadillac parts. Sad but true. If you want to go Cadillac follow Mr. Stamps advice. Buy a 68 to 72 Fleetwood and put that big sofa interior in that would be cool.

Michael Stamps 19507

Im sorry but Mr. Stamps is my dad.  My friends call me Stampie.  I actually looked behind me to make sure he wasnt here when I read that.

That said ... for a sub $3000 engine build the 472/500 gets better performance than a SBC.  Nothing replaces cubic inches.

Stampie

Bruce Reynolds # 18992

And, dont forget that the 472/500 is lighter that the Big Block Chev.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

Mike Bankes

Hi,
Thanks, but a chevy motor just has no appeal to me. I believe you that it would be cheaper, but I like to be a little different. When you go to a car show/cruise night everyone and their brother has a 350 in their car. Too normal for me, if I wanted to be that normal I wouldnt be driving 50s Cadillacs :) I did a google search, and found a bunch of info. I now know the tranny I need, and how to deal with the throttle body issues. A friend of mine even has a used tranny that I need. I still have to deal with the whole computer issues, but I am sure I will find soemone to help me with that. I also found a dealer in NE that is selling brand new 4.6 NorthStar Engines for $ 2500. Sounds fair to me. Also, they say they have 400 lbs torque, that sound liek plenty to me.

Matt Harwood

I think the Northstar is a great idea. They make 300 (not 400) pounds of torque, which should be plenty to get a car moving, and you can stuff some tall gears in the rear and itll be pretty darned snappy, Id imagine. With an overdrive transmission, you can run some pretty steep gears for acceleration and still have relatively decent cruise RPM at highway speeds. 32-valve motors like the Northstar dont mind cruising at slightly higher RPM anyway.

Converting to RWD will be the tough part, but it can obviously be done and someone else has already done the trailblazing on the conversion. It doesnt sound like youre trying to cut corners with this, so the conversion shouldnt be intimidating if cost is no object. Itll be considerably more than a 472/500 or SBC, but the cool factor will be much higher when youre done, which is what I gather youre hoping for. Folks have figured out the difficulties in converting an FWD Northstar to RWD, so you should be able to find that information on the Net with a little searching.

Having done some EFI engine swaps, however, be prepared for a wiring project of substantial magnitude. Take the time to do it right, and youll have an awesome cruiser that should really turn heads when you pop the hood. I really miss the reactions I used to get from my supercharged 5.0L V8 Ford Ranger pickup. Most folks did a double take when they saw how many spark plug wires it had. That was a great feeling.

Good luck with the project, and dont get discouraged. Itll be very hard, but very rewarding.
--
Matt Harwood
Cleveland, OH
My 1941 Buick Century restoration:
http://www.harwoodperformance.bizland.com/1941buick/index.html TARGET=_blank>http://www.harwoodperformance.bizland.com/1941buick/index.html

Tim Pawl CLC#4383

The "LH2" Rear wheel drive Northstar was first introduced on the 2003 SRX, 2004 XLR, and then 2005 on STS. By the way due to better breathing and exhausts I believe its rated at 315 HP instead of 275-295 HP on the transverse units.

Paul VW

This is available as a GM crate Engine, and is listed, in their literature, as 320 HP.  The one from the XLR is also apparently available, and it is supposed to have 360 HP.  A place called Cadillac Hot Rod Fabricators specializes in selling these motors (and performance rebuilt older Northstars)for hot rods, and they have some cool stuff .   Their website is:

http://www.chrfab.com/ TARGET=_blank>http://www.chrfab.com/

They have some great pictures underr the "complete engines" section

Jack McClow CLC #15840

About four years ago I watched with interest as a guy I met at a cruise in started a project of installing a Northstar, with a Chevy trans bolted to the rear, into his 57 Cadillac Coupe DeVille (as an aside, I ended up with the engine/trans from his car installed in my 57 convertible; and mine ended up going back out on the road long before his) ......... I eventually lost track of the car and the owner, but the last time I talked to him, at least a couple of years after he had begun the project, the car was still not completed and he was not very happy with the whole thing at that point ........ I did eventually see the car for sale on e-Bay, but the bids, if there were any, never reached the reserve.  One of the biggest early problems, while I was still stopping by to watch, was modifying the front suspension in order for the 57 to be able to accommodate the Northstars full width (length if installed in a rear drive car)oil pan.  I was concerned, and I think rightly so, that they had taken on more than they had bargined for when it became necessary to start cutting away on the cross rails, A-frames, etc, in the front of the car in order to be able to have the engine sitting down low enough for the hood to close ......... for this reason alone it would be worth looking into the newer versions of the Northstars that have been designed for rear wheel use; assuming these engines have a different style oil pan.  I agree with you that it would be cool to see a Northstar engine under the hood of a mid-to-late fifties Cadillac ........ but I wouldnt want to be the first one out of a shop ......... experience with a past conversion would be an abolute must before selecting a shop for this kind of work in my opinion.

Good luck, and dont forget that some of the older Northstars have been known to develop serious oil leaks as the result of defective pan gasgets; at least thats what Ive been told, and that engine removal is required in the 96 and older models to make the repair ...... Ive also been told it often happens around 75,000 miles.  Something to keep in mind if planning to use an engine from an older car.

Porter 21919

From what I have read it is a very wide engine, also they adapt a Chevy S 10 trans to it.

Basically a transverse mounted FWD engine. If you could get a late model Northstar with the RWD setup maybe but it would be big bucks.

I have a link bookmarked but do a websearch, they are popular for Fiero adaptation, the 4.9 L is too.

The 472/500 series engines have the best power/torque to weight ratio ever, plus you get the bolt on bullet proof TH400 tranny.

Porter (66&67 CDVs with 429s) 429 aint no slouch either.

Rhino 21150

I was at a car show this past weekend. I saw a small block Chevy (350) in several cars. REO, Packard, Terraplane, Buick, Bucket T, and a Studebaker. Phooey! Thank God no one touched the 68 Aston Martin!