Be careful what you wish for

[Lou CLC19028]

Do you really want the CLC to accept Modified cars? Most of us here would NOT have the funds to compete in any judged event in a mod class. Guys like Boyd will roll in with $150k rods and blow everyone out of the water! So much for modified cars being the entry level,inexpensive way to enjoy Cadillacs! The same bunch of guys barking now will start barking about how they cant get any respect from the club because of all the high dollar cars.So what do you want? The club allows you to join the club with or without a Cadillac(of any kind).The club allows you to display your car at GNs. Do you want separate classes made up for the different years and level of modification? Come up with a constructive plan which elaborates all of your wishes. Be careful what you wish for,you might get it.

[Michael Stamps 19507]

From what Ive seen of Boyd I wouldnt worry.  I doubt he knows there is any Cadillac engine.  Everything I see him do has a small block chevy.

Stampie

[Bill Sullivan]

Didnt Cadillac use small block Chevys for a while back in the 70s? -- along with Oldsmobile and Buick.  If so, would that engine be acceptable for use in a modified Cadillac?  

[Lou]

Ah so there is the first guideline!!! It must have a Cadillac engine.So if he showed up with Cadzilla to a GN You would say sorry Boyd not today? Please,that car would stop everyone in there tracks.How could you have a mod class and not include a Cadillac body with or without a Cadillac engine??? Boyd is only a example of the kind of "money" people in the mod world. The bottom line is there is no limit in dollars or mods to a mod class. You can join and go to a GN with a mod car. Ill say it again.Do you really want to be judged? If so,please someone explain how you would set the classes and make sure it is fare for all.  

[Porter 21919]

Okay Lou,

Lets take all the old Cadillacs that cant be realistically restored $$$ to factory new condition and part them out.

Like some idiot will spend $ 25K or more to restore a car that will sell for $ 10k when done.

I dont think you really get the point here nor do I care if the CLC accepts the proposed Modified Chapter, like how many members actually go to a GN and have their survivor or restored to factory new condition car to have it judged anyway ?

Better yet why part them out, just crush them for the value of the scrap steel.

Porter

[Lou]

Who said that all non-show Cadillacs should be scrapped or parted out? I didnt.Of course there are many more "drivers" vs show Cadillacs and yes most of those are modified. My question still stands,What do you want the CLC accept? If allowing Mods into the GN for judging is one of the issues then there are big issues to be resolved and NO ONE has come up with a plan.

[Porter 21919]

I see your point Lou, where do you draw the line.

I used to go to Corvette car shows and most of them had replacement blocks with non matching #s, unlike my Corvettes, I considered a modified Corvette "sin city" and it only decreases the value of the car, pointless waste of time & $$$ to modify a factory masterpiece.

I doubt you would ever see very many modified Cadillacs at a GN , not really as if the modified concept is a threat to the CLC club concept.

I inherited a free 67 CDV rust bucket with a strong low mileage 429, it is getting all new steel welded in and it will get custom paint and a nice loud dual exhaust, the leaky rear window just about destroyed the car along with the winter salt crap.

Any sane person would have parted it out, I will make a nice modified driver out of the car, the chrome is shot so the bumpers will get painted. All work will be done by yours truly, hoping to bring the car in on bubget for around $ 1,500. If not for me it would have been crushed for scrap steel.

Porter

[Steve Crum- former 20999]

I guess for the sake of political correctness, I was too general in my point. I should clarify this to say "Will the PEOPLE who modify a Cadillac be judged?" It is very easy to picture an announcer at a GN say "And folks for your amusement, this year we have allowed modified Cadillacs to be displayed, youll find these behind the snack bar and porta-johns".
I could care less about any of my cars being judged, a buck and a cheap plastic trophy will still only get you a cup of coffee.
The general attitude toward modifications and the people who do them and own them is what sets the precident.
As I clearly stated on the Stampie board, If you are not welcomed into a family or organization with open arms, dont bother, Not worth the aggravation.
So what seems to be the sticking point of the CLC accepting a modified chapter?

[WARREN #13918]

It looks like we have two threads chasing the some rabbit here but..... I am not sure why all the fuss about "being accepted", where you will be parked and what is an acceptable or unacceptable modification. If you are not interested in having your car judged, why worry so much about how anyone judges you? This club is first and most a social culb that is bound together with Cadillac glue. There always has, and always will be a pecking order in every organization. That is true of life in general. Get used to it, I have. The owners with "Full Classics" of the CCCA were once the black sheep of the collector world. I understand that is why they reorganized their group outside of the AACA. My, how times changed. Every dog has his day.
So much for the "feelings" side of things.
As far as modified cars......If its modified, its modified. It can no longer be judged against any known standard from the factory. Get used to that also. That is what separates modified (single item or complete car) from the manufactures standard. That standard is the basis for the CLC judging. The CLC charter and mission is, and should remain to encourage the preservation, restoration appreciation of these cars. I would always encourage any modifier to go stock but her/she is not obligated to follow my advice. Live and let live. If the modified chapter is approved, they should be allowed to decide for themselves if there will be judging or not and, if so, how that judging would be done. Judging Modifieds would, of course, need to be more of a subjective type (such as with the Riddler Cup) rather than the more objective standards used on the unmodified classes, but there have always been shades of grey and conflict and hurt feelings anytime there is judging involved. Get used to that also.
If you have a thin skin, leave your car in the garage, stay at home watching "texas holdem" on the tube and eating Cheetos. As for me, Im taking my drivers (touring class) out on the road, showing them to other CLC members who appreciate them and not worrying about those who do not like the year, the color or the condition of my cars. I have never been to any CLC event where I did not feel welcome and have interest shown in whatever car I brought along. Enjoy your car.

[Denise 20352]

  The Seville had the 350 Olds with fuel injection.  I try not to talk about it because people get angry at me.

  Everything else from 75-76 was 500, 77-79 was 425.

-denise

[David #19063]

...the 79 Eldorado used a 350 Olds engine.

In the 80s, the Brougham used the anemic 305 Olds and in the 90s, the Chevy 350 tuned port and 94-96 the Chevy 350 LT1.

I have a 94, the LT1 rocks!!!

David

[Kevin Parkinson 20216]

David,

You dont happen to be the person that had pictures posted of your 94 LT1 at one time?  There was a web site I came across a few years ago with a blue/green 94 with some modifications.  I had it bookmarked and then the site went away.  There were some shots of the car in action.

Kevin

[David #19063]

Hello Kevin,

Yes, I have a 94 LT1 Fleetwood Brougham I bought in January.  Although, in June, I deer got it when I was in Wisconsin.  Dameaged the entire drivers side.

My insurance company totaled out the car so I bought it back for salvage.  Took out most of the dents, but there are still small dents, ripples, and quite a few creases left.  The drivers door is not the worst.

Right now I ned to find a drivers mirror and door glass.

Then, it will just be  a slightly battered daily driver.I am going to keep my eyes open for a nice low mileage 95.

David

[David #19063]

...that English is my first language.  

I really butchered the previous post with lots of typos...LOL!

David

[Michael Stamps 19507]

Sorry but I should have made clear that those were my personal thoughts and not the thoughts of the proposed Modified Chapter.  The proposed Chapter membership has not discussed judging as we have been to busy working on our cars.  Personally I did want to enter my 70 SDV into judging but only if the CLC turned its nose up to those of us that personalize our cars.  Im sure it would get the lowest points on record.  As regards engines I think if judging were to happen then it should require a Cadillac body with a Cadillac engine.  That said you wont see my 74 Datsun 260z that I am shoehorning a 70 Cadillac 472 into.  You might see my 70 SDV with a 76 500 shortblock bored over to 514.  Honestly I could care less for the politics of this whole question.  I enjoy working and driving my cars too much to worry about the petty stuff.

Stampie

[Michael Stamps 19507]

What do we want the CLC to accept?

We want the CLC to accept the proposed Modified Chapter as a part of the CLC.  We havent asked for anything more or anything less.

Stampie

PS - If you like visit us at http://www.modifiedcadillac.org TARGET=_blank>www.modifiedcadillac.org .  There you can view our application and visit our forums.  I dont think you will find any hidden agenda.

[Steve Crum- former 20999]

Well stated Stampie, my thoughts exactly. Earlier today I saw the classic example at Walmart. A family was there that Mama and I know, Mom and Dad are the nicest people you would ever meet, Mom is conservative in her demeanor, as is Dad, Their 2 kids 5 and 7 years old are well...kids. They are polite and well behaved but as one would expect, they are curious and energetic. We spoke with the parents for a few minutes and exchanged news about life since the last time we visited with them. All the while, the kids were scampering around and looking at things. Nothing mischevious, nothing destructive and nothing that would bring shame to the parents or the family name. Dad said "hey hot dogs" and the kids immediately ran over and grabbed his hands, off they went to continue shopping.
This simple show of mutual respect in a family is indeed the albumin that binds a family, a club or a shift at work, without it, it just dont work. Small wonder people in all these situations dont get along these days.
The CLC as a group seeks to promote the "Standard of the world", in their choice of cars, My thoughts are that the cohesion of the CLC group should exemplify "The standard of the world" such as the parents (CLC) and the kids (modified chapter). As this family did today. Theres little tolerance these days for "stuffed shirts", Eat desert first, lifes too un-certain".

[Andrew 10642]

Warren,

That is a great statement of the challenges of any "preservation" organization.  Rather than demand total compliance, shouldnt we all just celebrate what we love about the marque (or other historic thing, like a house, boat or collectible) and learn from the perspective of others, even if we dont agree with them.

I think we spend way too much time focusing on our differences rather than the threads that bind us all (like how do I fix this thing!!)

I hope we can see that a club is an association of individuals, while a cult is an association of single-minded individuals that pursue a single truth.  This isnt a cult, we have unresolved disagreements, which are good for the organization, if a bit taxing on us all. Agree to disagree, and open yourself to learning about something or someone you didnt know about the day before.

By the way, most people think I am somewhat cynical, so I reserve the right to disavow the above paragraphs!!!

[Denise 20352]

   Hmm...I actually have pictures there that I have no memory of uploading.  Too many LDS trips, I guess.

-denise