Crash with 1929 Duesenberg Leaves 3 Dead

[Orin CLC #16302]

This tragic story isnt directly Cadillac-related, but should be of enough importance that I think it is worth posting anyway.  (I have included just an excerpt to ensure compliance with the copyright laws; click on the URL to get the full story.)

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http://www.freep.com/news/statewire/sw119202_20050801.htm TARGET=_blank>http://www.freep.com/news/statewire/sw119202_20050801.htm
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Crash involving 1929 Duesenberg leaves 3 dead near Ann Arbor
August 1, 2005, 1:32 AM

SUPERIOR TOWNSHIP, Mich. (AP) -- A driver apparently ran a stop sign at an intersection near Ann Arbor and collided with a classic car carrying a family of five, killing two parents and a child, authorities say.

The other two children in the 1929 Duesenberg convertible were injured in crash, which happened about 8:10 p.m. EDT Saturday in Superior Township, the Washtenaw County sheriffs office said in a statement Sunday.

. . . .

All five from the Superior Township family were thrown from the vehicle, which did not have seat belts. The two children who survived were taken to the C.S. Mott Childrens Hospital at the University of Michigan.

"The accident probably wouldnt have turned out like this (if they) wore seat belts," sheriffs Cmdr. David Egeler told The Detroit News.

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[Dave Smith #17592]

Wow!   What a tragic story!

  Everyone looses in this case.   Mom and Dad killed,  two kids orphaned, Grandparents loose Son, daughter inlaw and one grandchild,  driver of the Volvo will pay for the rest of his life and the owner of the Car is out 1.5 million unless he recently adjusted his insurance.    

[Doug Houston]

This car was only recently shown on the back cover of the CCCA Michigan region: "TORQUE". It was a convertible sedan....possibly a phaeton. The gravity of such a tragedy cant be described in just words. As has already been mentioned, almost a whole family has been lost, with a couple of good kids orphaned. Possibly, their grandparents will take them in and give them a home; we can only hope.  Can you imagine having to tell the two surviving kids that their mother, father and brother are gone?

I wonder what the cause of running the stop sign was? The first thing I think of is gabbing on a phone, with no idea of whats going on anywhere else. I would imagine that the driver of the Volvo has nowhere near the money or insurance to compensate for what he/she has done. There is the damage to the Dusenberg, which, I hope will be restored, and THAT wont be cheap! Then, the liability for the lives lost. That irresponsible driver could possibly lose everything he/she has or ever may have.

Then finally, I have heard that the Duesy rolled three times. Predictably, the safety crusaders leap up and beat the drum for seat belts saving lives. Whether or not the passengers in a closed car are tied in or not, a three time rollover would surely have   killed all of them. I wasnt there (and Im glad I wasnt), but the fact that two of the surviving kids were thrown from the car  is probably why they survived. Collisions just cant be controlled!

So, regardless of what kind of car was wrecked, it can be restored. The lives are gone forever, and the heartbreak for those surviving will be forever and will never be any less than it is today.  

[Dave Smith #17592]

Only the driver Volvo driver knows for sure.  Perhaps he didnt see the stop sign at all?    But as you said, we were not there.   Much to often I see people running stop signs or yellow lights.    They dont think of the consequences of what will happen if there is another car coming.   I know that if I was a responding Police Officer I would have dragged that kid who was driving the Volvo over to the car and had him take a good hard look at the bodies of those little kids he just killed.   Then perhaps a video should be brought to the Schools to be shown to the kids to wake their A**es up!

   On my moring commute I always see one or two idiots speeding and weaving their way in and out of traffic on the freeway.   Why?  after all, we are just going to work!   Why risk smashing up your car and having your insurance go up, let alone the chance you may kill someone just to get to work 5 minutes earlier.   My coffee tastes just as good at work when I get there regardless of how early I get in.

[Doug Houston]

During the 40 or so years I worked, I had to cross various streets that passed over freeways, on the service drives. I quickly learned to hesitate a bit before proceeding on a green light. More times that I can count, someone went breezing past on a very purely red light, and would have been a terrific partner in a collision. In some cases, someone did get going on green quickly, and all parties met unexpectedly. Jackrabbit starts from a green light can be adventurous!

[David #19063]

Yep, Ill be the first seat belt crusader...LOL!

Without seeing the wreck or the footage, I cannot say if seatbelts would have helped or not.  However, in most roll over fatalities, the vehicle rolls over the people like a steamroller as they are ejected or partially ejected.

I would not be surprised if this is not the case here.

However, the Volvos driver should be prosecuted for the loss of life.  He screwed up and killed 3 people.  He had to have hit the Duesenberg pretty hard to cause it to roll 3 times.

Seat belts do saves lives and injuries, however, they do not guarranty survival of all crashes.

We just had a SUV rollover here in NW Indiana on an overpass.  A 2 year old was not belted or in a car seat.  The child was ejected out of the SUV, over the edge of the overpass, and 40 feet down to the river.  They found the body 2 days later.  Cause of death was drowing.  So sad.  The rest in the SUV fared better including the mother.

Roll overs do not always mean death, but usually if you are ejected or partially ejected when not wearing seat belts and the vehicle rolls over you, you die.

My parents had a blowout in their 55 Buick Century 4D Sedan back in 1957 or so in Concil Bluffs, Iowa.  It went off the shoulder and rolled two times.  They survived very well other than bumps, bruises, and a wrenched back.  But they were not ejected.  The Centurys roof caved in some, but all 4 doors would open and shut.  One rear wing window also cracked.  

A week earlier, very near that same spot, a Mercury hardtop also rolled.  Unfortunately, the hardtop completely collapsed down killing both occupants.  

It is so easy to put seat belts in a car when they are restored, people should do it.

Regarding insurance.  When someone drives a car worth $1,500,000 dollars (or even $150,000), truely, it is their own responsibility to have adequate coverage for the vehicle.  At $1.5 Million dollars it has the same value as 10 nice houses for the average person.

Especially considering minimum car insurance is 20,000/40,000/10,000 in some states.

In my personal opinion, I think all new covertiblesshould have integral rool bars as did the 68 Shelby Mustang...in fact, I think all cars should have and intergral roll bar.  It could be fabricated in to the B-pillar and roof.

Anyway...

I know that I survived and faired better because I had my seat belt on to keep me from being ejected...even though all I had in my 67 was a lap belt.  I also know my Guardian Angel also helped me survive...but I made her job much easier by wearing my seat belt.  I just wish my 67 had come with a shoulder strap!

David
PS.  My webpage, Old Iron Saves a Life:

http://www.angelfire.com/ca/mineryhomepage/67accident.html TARGET=_blank>http://www.angelfire.com/ca/mineryhomepage/67accident.html

[Dave Smith #17592]

Hi Dave!

    Tragic story,  but it is great that you survived and are helping educate people on seat belt usage.

    I have seen close up the damage caused when front passengers kiss the dash at low speed impacts.  It is not pretty.   I have worn my seat belt ever since, and that was before it became law.   I never drive without belting up.  In fact,  I often reach for the shoulder belt in my 75 convertible by habit!   Of course it is not there, just a lap belt.  

    People use a lot of excuses not to wear them.  My favorite is that THEY are a good driver.   They never think that the other guy is the problem 99percent of the time!

David

[Rusty Shepherd CLC 6397]

I guess my dads preference for pillared cars over hardtops had some basis in fact, at least circa 1950s.

[Yann Saunders, CLC #12588]

My heart goes out to the orphaned survivors and the grieving families. While we may only surmise what happened, precisely, and where the responsibility lies, that Volvo must have been traveling like the proverbial bat outta Hell to flip a 6000lb (?) Duesie.

In all the related posts I have not once seen any reference to "defensive driving", i.e. being prepared for the WORST at all times.  Gita and I blew the LH front tire off our La Sabre on I-26 while doing 80mph behind a "protective" tractor-trailer rig. Only driver concentration and preparedness prevented a major accident in the heavy traffic; we were able to come to a stop on the median with only minor damage to the front fender from the molding that was ripped off the wheel opening.

Today, governments and the auto manufacturers seem to favor "cotton ball" car interiors to the more simple and equally effective  DRIVER EDUCATION.  We need more law enforcement; we need SEVERE fines, loss of drivers licenses, JAIL time for "criminal conduct" like running stop signs and red lights, DUI etc.

I say, hit the "dangerous" drivers in their pocket-books ; when they are down a few thousand bucks, theyll think twice about a repeat offense.

We emigrated here from Europe (Switzerland) in 1997. In 50 years of driving Ive had ONE fender-bender (in 1967 - my own fault for overtaking without due care) and one speeding ticket (in 1977, at 2 a.m., on a country road in France).  Nobody got hurt.  

Im not saying Europe is accident-free; they have as many accidents per capita and per driving mile as in the US.  And these accidents have the same root causes as here:  reckless driving, speeding, DUI, driver distraction (cell phones, tape decks, IPODs) and a lot of young drivers who never heard of centrifugal force; they think the steering wheel will make the car go left or right AT ANY SPEED !

Next time you take the wheel, keep in mind all the "other guys" on the road who dont give a damn and may "accidentally" kill you.

[mike baillargeon #15848]

A state cop told me once that he never had to unbuckle a dead body after a highway crash. Ever since then I have always worn mine. I would like to continue to work on and drive my old Caddys for as long as I can.

I think we should keep the drivers of the Duesenberg & the Volvo families in our prayers, Im sure there is going to be alot of very difficult times ahead for both.   mike b in ct

[Denise 20352]

> A state cop told me once that he never had to unbuckle a dead body after a highway crash

   Whats your point?  Ive never had to repeat a dropback because someone forgot to set the pointers on a database.  Other people who work with me have.  So what?

   I cant imagine how a seat belt would have helped when a convertible rolled over, but if you want to wear one, go ahead.

-denise

[Andrew 10642]

Denise,

I realize seat belts, like air bags, dont help in every situation, like a T-bone side impact, but the reality is that they are better on average.  I realize the thread started with a 29 Duesenberg, but I saw a video shot by a European traffic cam showing a 1990s Mercedes SL flipping over after losing it in a curve and going down the road on its roof at over 100mph. The people walked away, literally,  because of a roll bar and a seat belt.  Almost anytime people are thrown from a vehicle, they are worse off.  Just because one time someone manages to end up better being thrown doesnt make it a design goal.

I drive a 68 convertible, and know the car would collapse in a rollover.  I wear my belt, even though it is only a lap belt and will probably cause internal organ damage in a severe accident.  I also bought a parts car, 68 convertible, which was in a 20-25 mph crash.  The driver, who sold me the car, was not wearing a belt and had his head and face meet the windshield head rail.  2 years several operations and face plates (internal) later, he is functional, but will be in permanent pain and cant easily work on his cars anymore due to movement limitations,  etc.  The accident occurred in a small town, at the main drag, very low speed.  Doesnt take much to be permanently altered.

I guess my point, if I have one, is that there are no guarantees, and if someone is willing to take a risk, they should be able to do so, but they need to realize that it really is a risk, and not some restriction on their right to drive unrestrained.  There are a lot of dead motorcyclists, some of whom would have been helped by a helmet, and others for whom it would have made no difference. No guarantees in life at all.

I hope you are continuing to recover from your injuries, and that you have found better transport than your much cursed Ford.  Please dont interpret the above too harshly, as I respect your viewpoint as well, as there are many who agree with it.

[Dave Smith #17592]

My dad and I were behind a 1972 Chevy Nova doing about 30 mph because we both had just pulled away from a stop light.     A car pulled out of a driveway right in front of the Nova so quickly that the driver never had time to hit the brakes.  My dad slammed on his brakes and narrowly escaped rear ending the Nova.     The Nova t-boned the other car at about 30 mph.   We walked up to the Nova to see the driver and his mother sitting stunned with both their noses broken and teeth knocked out from hitting the dashboard.    This was in 1979.   Nobody involved was wearing their seatbelts.    After the Ambulance arrived, my Dad and I got in our car, looked at eachother, then both reached for the shoulderbelts and buckled up.   Ive worn mine ever since.

      I dont care how many people heard about the person who was thrown clear and saved because they didnt have a belt on.      Seat belts save lives.   Yes, improperly worn belts can cause injuries.  Airbags can cause minor burns when deployed, but you are still alive to complain about it.   Still Alive?  Get it?

      As for the Trooper who never had to unbelt a dead driver?   I wish I could say the same.     We had a case here in CT where a man driving home in his 1985 Coupe Deville was killed and he was belted.     A bunch of rowdy kids borrowed their parents new Mercedes and was showing off.   They crossed the center line doing about 95 mph when they met this poor man driving home.  The head-on collision broke his neck, the passengers in the Benz all killed when they went thru the windshield.  They found the motor to the Benz 100 feet behind the Cadillac.   The Teen driver of the Mercedes lived thanks to an Airbag.     So belts wont help in all situations,  but Id bet a weeks pay that the man in the Caddy wouldnt have faired any better if he were unbelted.

DavidinHartford

[Joe R #20442]

Last year I completed restoration on my 63 convertible.  Why did I retrofit with shoulder harnesses on all 4 outside positions?  First-it was prepped for lapbelts from the factory, but never were installed, so I needed to add something.  Second-I wasnt anywhere near as concerned about rollovers as I was a collision-I dont have any statistics, but how many auction cars do you see that are rolled versus collided with?

Third, I had learned about Davids experience and his head-on collision from his website, and the fact that he advocates shoulder belt installation.  David is still living the aftermath of his collision-injuries, loss of job due to long recovery period and other negative impacts.  If retrofitting my car with shoulder belts reduces the chance of going through what David is going through, it was well worth the $200 and 8 hours of time it took to install them.

The installation doesnt have to look like a disaster-mine looks like it came from the factory that way.  Anyone interested in seeing how I did it can see my photo album on the 1963/64 Cadillac website:

http://groups.msn.com/196364CadillacCommunity/joerobin65s63series62conv.msnw?Page=1 TARGET=_blank>http://groups.msn.com/196364CadillacCommunity/joerobin65s63series62conv.msnw?Page=1

In closing, I spread the word that David started, and try and convince people to put in shoulder belts if it can be done.  Does it guarantee anything?  No-nothing does.  But it should take the dental and facial damage out of a slow speed impact like the one referenced below.  Good luck to you, David, in your continuing challenges (I will email you outside this forum for an update)-you and your family are in our prayers.

Joe Robinson

[David #19063]

Andrew,

I do not know if many poeple realize it, but GM did offer front and rear shoulder straps in ALL GM cars since 1967 and at least through 1971.

The mounting procedures are in the GM body manuals and it should front and rear mounting points in all models, including convertibles and all seats including 3 seat wagons.

David

[Denise 20352]

  Thanks for the well wishes.

  Unfortunately, I am stuck with the Ford...as time goes by, the amount that it would cost to get out from under it is consistently $10,500.  I dont see the situation getting better until the payoff is less than $15k or so.  By then it will be falling apart, because its so cheaply made.  In fact, its falling apart already.  The drivers seat is lumpy, and the passengers seat has springs popping.  I was going to try some different tires and maybe a bigger steering wheel to make it easier to turn, but I feel that the car is such a piece of junk that it isnt worth putting anything into.  Its frustrating, but maybe someday I will be able to get one of those older barges that I feel comfortable in.

   The seat belt issue is a dead horse, but sometimes I jump in on the discussion because the rhetoric makes me cringe.  "If only they were wearing their seat belts, they would have walked away without a scratch", "The driver who ran the red light must have been talking on a cell phone", etc.  Most of the people in this forum have the brains and the background not to swallow it, but obviously there are plenty of people in the world who do, because we have stickers on our gas pumps telling us that we must turn off our cell phones so that we dont blow ourselves up.

   I actually wear my seat belt these days, most of the time.  When the pain in my shoulder flares up, I wear only the lap belt because the idea of getting wrapped around the shoulder belt again makes me cringe.  I also have a problem with air bags.  Im well aware that they can make cars safer in certain types of collisions, but that does not mean that I want to have an  explosive device between my arms while Im driving.  They dont just cause minor skin burns as someone suggested...they break arms and thumbs, and kill children, and they go off in 10 mph collisions.  Maybe some people have similar feelings about seat belts?  Considering that were paying a lot of money for cars that are absolute garbage, we should at least have the freedom to try to make ourselves comfortable in them.

-denise

[Dave Smith #17592]

Thats the problem with this country.   The person who sues the car manufacturer for broken fingers because their airbag deployed on a head-on collision.  The fact it saved their life is irrelevant apparently.

A person weaving down the highway with a beercan in their hands is a danger, but replace that beercan with a cellphone and now it is their constitutional right to endanger my family so they can bullsh*t with their neighbor.

Do us all a favor and buy a Horse!

[Porter 21919]

With all due respect,

Many of us are not big fans of all these air bags, and yes, I always wear my seat belt/shoulder harness. Neither do I have a cell phone in my car but it appears most all other drivers do, typically plastered to their ear while they are driving.

Lets not be hypocrites here, government mandated air bags and they let the idiots drive while operating their cell phones, which have been documented to cause "X" percent of all accidents or at least contribute to them.

If Nascars dont have air bags we dont need them either. They drive up the purchase cost of the car considerably and lead to early termination of the vehicle by the insurance companies after collsions.

Last but not least all cars have had collapsible steering columns and front and rear crumple zones for years, not to mention better side impact protection. Many of the new car designs are very silly anyway, styling still sells over safety features to a degree. Not too mention how they are designed when it comes to repairs, ridiculous.

Driving is dangerous.

[Mike #19861]

 Amen, Porter.

 We all know that safety, or perceived safety sells. I for one am not comfortable with air bags. I do not own any cars with them, nor will the wife. She calls them tin cans full of balloons.

 I do not even own a cell phone. Hate them. I do not need to be attached to the world around me. Most of the time I do not even bother to answer the phone at home. Its a pain in the ***.

 Real safety advancements are the ones that prevent the accident in the first place. Better handling cars that stop better. Better education. But, as in the case of the Duesenberg, it was the other driver. The one that did not take his act of driving seriously enough. This is where the built in safety features play their role. We have had real advancements here such as crumple zones, fuel tanks that resist explosions and fire, collapsible steering columns, padded interior surfaces and so on. But by far the best safety feature is the seat belt, or restrant system, and that is somewhat compromised. Competition cars illustrate how effective they can be, but most people will not take the time to properly secure themselves since it can become quite arduous when you have to repeat this process several times per day. Its difficult to get many people to use the exisitng systems. This is where air bags come in, and they are a compromise. They have been the sole reason for many deaths in low speed impacts, hence the so called second generation bags. They work only in single impact crashes, and vehicles these days have been loaded up with them to be effective in as many types of crashes as possible. And the public soaks this all up.

 I have all too often seen cars with minor damage being written off because of air bag deployment. In slow speed collisions where they would not likely have been significant in preventing any injury. Insurance rates have skyrocketed because of this.

 Perhaps, seat belts may not have prevented injury or death in this case, but they are effective in so many types of collisions that it is a misnomer to not install them in any vehicle.

  Mike

[Dave Smith #17592]

Mike writes: "I do not even own a cell phone. Hate them. I do not need to be attached to the world around me. Most of the time I do not even bother to answer the phone at home. Its a pain in the ***. "

I am the same way.   I do see the benefit of them, 911 emergencys etc, but most people abuse them.  Like in movie theatres!   ARG!

Porter is 100percent right!  "Driving is dangerous!"     It is not a right, it is a priveledge.   That is why there is a driving test!  To see if you are schooled in the proper use of these wonderful killing machines.    

Neither seatbelts nor Airbags would have saved those folks in the Duesenberg.    The cars high center of gravity caused it to flip.   I doubt if you could get a 1976 Fleetwood Brougham to flip in the same situation.   But a side impact like that to a 76 Caddy would no doubt been fatal to some of the passengers.

Driving requires your attention, not talking on phones,  fiddling with complex navigation systems, putting on make-up,   reading maps, eating a Big Mac,  using an electric razor,  changing your 6 favorite CDS and my new favorite: watching TV on your drivers visor screen when its folded down and you are doing 65 mph on the highway!   Yes, Ive seen it all!     Thats why I wear my belt and give these people a wide berth.

David