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1961 Cadillac Brake Problem - Modify?

Started by Brent Hladky (#21519), August 17, 2005, 02:28:10 PM

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Brent Hladky (#21519)

I have been struggling (together with trusty, crusty, fellow CLC member John Washburn) to figure out a brake problem in my 1961 Series 62.  The car is pulling hard to the right.  In combination with general maintenance we have replaced all brake lines, shocks, wheel cylinders, and shoes.  The drums were not good, especially the front, so they were all replaced as well (NOS on the rear, and a slightly used pair on the front that were newly turned and we put in all new bearings).  The ole car STILL pulls hard to the right.  All we can think of now is the springs.  In searching for new ones, I (A) am discovering that the front primary to secondary springs around the star wheel adjusting screw (shown in manual on page 8-11) are exceedingly difficult to located, and (B) have been told by a very reputable parts supplier that these self adjusting star wheels (found on years 1961 to 1964) are not the easiest things to get right and keep right and because of this many people modify the brakes to be as found in prior years (e.g. 1959 & 1960) that are not self, but manual, adjusting.  Have any of you heard about this modification, and if so, do you agree with it, and how would one go about performing it?  Thanks in advance.

Porter 21919

Brent,

Ill bring this back to the top for you.

If the Washburn is stumped we are in big trouble.

Funny, Im working on my free 67 CDV, it had a seized RF wheel that the tow guy broke loose when he yanked the car out of the weeds, I backed off the star adjuster so it would spin free, just pulled the drum off and the wheel cylinder was leaking, shoes soaked in brake fluid, Mike Jones a resident expert here told me that is the # 1 cause for locking brakes, not that your problem is that, or causing pulling to one side.

We can bring Bruce Reynolds into the fray here, he is a good brake expert. And front end expert too.

Bruce, what are the primary causes for a car to pull when braking ?


Porter


Bruce Reynolds # 18992

Gday Brent,

Okay, 60 was the first year of the Self Adjusting brakes in the Cadillac line, so that at least will open up your search area for parts in the wrecking yards.

Now, if you have replaced everything, then there is no reason for the brakes to pull hard to one side.

One of the biggest causes of a brake application im-balance is from incorrectly inflated tyres, incorrect adjustment, and the shoes being installed back to front.   Wheel alignment also has a major bearing on the performance of the front brakes and the ability for a wheel to lock up.

Seeing as your brake system will most probably be a single circuit type, each Wheel Cylinder is going to receive the same pressure of brake fluid as all four will equalise the pressure.

But, even slightly incorrect adjustment wont have much affect on one wheel cylinder pushing more than another one.   When you depress the pedal, it is only the fluid that is leaving the master cylinder that is pressing on the fluid that is going to each wheel cylinder, as all the lines will be full, if they are correctly bled.

As you say, the car pulls hard to the right, means that the Left Front Brake isnt working as it is supposed to, or maybe one of the rear brakes isnt doing its job.

The rear brakes are there to stop the rear from passing the front, that is, spinning out.   The rear brakes are designed not to have the stopping power of the front, and when operated, they hold the back of the car in line with the front.   Plus, as you brake hard, the front of the car, usually tries to dig the bumper bar into the road, and the rear bumper bar tries to touch the sky.   This, in itself, unloads the weight from the rear wheels and can cause the rears to lock up, in the most extreme circumstances.

I take it that you have checked ALL hard lines to ensure that there arent any obstructions that might cause any flow problems.   And, as a final check, in the fluid delivery department, If you can come up with an high pressure gauge, make up an adaptor and test the ends of each line where it goes into the wheel cylinder and see if each one registers the same pressure reading when you press the pedal down.   Four would be best with four people reading each gauge simultaneously, so there cant be any inconsistencies from pressing the pedal four times.

Also have a look at other GM cars of these years.   You never know, they might have the same star wheel adjusters, or something very similar.

Lastly, when you replaced the drums, did you have the shoes radiised to suit the shape of the replacement drums?, and the same with the rears?

Hope this helps.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV


Mick

Hi.
Seems you have been replacing parts in guess mode.
Check the tie strut rubber bushings health, they are under the radiator !
Mick

Ed Mobley

Before I restored my 60, it used to pull way to the right with a clunking noise.  When I took the car apart I noticed the lower A-arm bolts were finger tight.  However, the loose bolts only becase apparent after removing the front suspension springs.


Regards,

Ed

Porter 21919

Good to hear from you.

Now that your 60 CDV is all buttoned up you have been scarce.

I hereby declare you a 1960 Cadillac expert drivetrain / AC specialist rebuilder. LOL Im the 66/67 specialist (learning as I go)

Have you started working on the 66 Stang ?

Porter

Ed Mobley

Hey Porter,

Just when I think my 60 is done, I have another challenge.  See my post regarding electronic ignition.

Yes, my son and I are looking to start the 66 Stang.  Big question is the best way to strip it.  Weve got time: My son is only 9 and we hope to have it ready when he is 16.

How are things in Maine?  And how is your latest project going?

Regards,

Ed

Porter 21919

Ed,

Best way to strip the 66 Stang, would you mean the paint ?

At any rate Ive been working on the 67 CDV all year,doing the front brakes and suspension work this weekend. The 90percent done 66 CDV is patiently sitting, keeping the mileage down, just like the last 15 years. LOL

The 67 is a rust bucket but the 429 runs smooth and strong, must be 49K mileage, her name is the Evil Sister, it will get modified, custom paint and loud dual exhaust, should bring it in on budget for $ 2K no prob, just a fun grocery getter saved from the crusher.

We have pictures over here at the Mod Squad chapter.

http://www.modifiedcadillac.org/ TARGET=_blank>http://www.modifiedcadillac.org/

Porter