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Engine trashed while at garage. Are they libel?

Started by Stan 19079, August 31, 2005, 08:23:21 PM

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Stan 19079

Took my 70 Eldo in for a carburetor adjust before trip, 60,000 unabused, no racing miles.  I get a call 3 hours later that while they put it on the road to warm it up, it  threw a rod through the oil pan.
1.  Do garages have insurance for such  things?
2.  If they do, could they be libel for the rod going through the oil pan?
3.  Is it just a case of coincidence that it happened while they had it, and thats that?
This garage has changed the oil and tuned up the car for past 5 years, so they  know that it was in good condition before they last got it, in fact the manager commented how it was "purring like a kitten" when I gave him the keys.  The owner is away till Monday, so I am trying to get a grasp on the reality of the situation before I talk to him.  Any helpful thoughts appreciated, especially experienced ones.  Stan

Dave #17592

Garage liability insurance doesnt cover that.   It covers you and them against things that happen like a light fixture falling on your car in their garage, or if their mechanic tears a door off while parking it in the lot.    An engine failure on a test drive will be hard to pin on them unless you can proof they caused it to happen, ie: forgot to put motor oil in it.   But good luck trying to prove it.

Bruce Reynolds # 18992

Gday Stan,

Sorry to hear about your troubles.

I had a similar problem, but nowhere near as bad as yours.

I had a 6 cylinder 57 Chev and on my way to work, it started to splutter and die from lack of fuel.   As the tank was full, I stopped in to a garage and asked them to look at it whilst I caught the bus to work.

Well, when I picked the car up, they said that there was something wrong with the engine as it had a knock in it and advised me not to drive it till it was fixed.

I towed the car home, pulled off the head and there between one of the Exhaust valves and the seat was a spring washer.   Lo and behold, there were two washers missing from one two of the carby top screws, and this was one of them.

I called the garage owner immediately and he came to view what I found.   He tried to dispute the fact that one of his "mechanics" had dropped it into the carby, but there on the piston crown were the tell-tale marks of a floating washer.   None on any of the other pistons.   Never did find the other one.

Anyway, they pain for the new Gasket Set, and I completed the job.   Wouldnt let them touch it, even though they finally admitted that it was their fault.   Ever since then, I have done all my own repairs, and also for others (friends).

If they had given it a couple more revs, it probably woyld have become dislodged and the noise would have gone, and I would have been none the wiser that they had stuffed up.   Bit hard to explain them "tossing a leg out of bed" though.   Many a car has been hurt on a "road test".

But, I would be talking to the Garage, Very nicely, and see what they will do for you.   Also, you never know, putting an advert in the paper to see if anyone saw the car being driven, might just bring someone forward that remembers being passed by it.    It takes a lot of abuse to toss a rod.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

Scott Howard #22304

Certainly they have garage insurance for such things. First I would contact your insurance agent, if he is unsure of what to do make him find out. Tell the shop they need to contact their insurance company.  Whether they end up paying for the repairs or not.  This protects both them and you.  Obviously they would be insured by a company that deals with these situations on a regular/semi-regular basis. I work for an insurance company that covers repair facilities.  There needs to be teardown on the engine to determine the cause for the rod going thru the block. At this point there would most likely be an inspection done by a 3rd party. Get all receipts gathered for your maintenance and oil changes, especially if this shop has done them all. The more you have (verifiable) the better. I cant promise the insurance company will repair it. However,this will give you a better chance of getting some help. Work with the shop, keep them on your side. Good Luck.   Scott.

David #19063

I agree with Scott.  You need to contact both your insurance company and their insurance company immediately.

Motors usually will not throw a rod when at idle.

john k

When the garage accepted your car to do repair, a contract was created which was either express or implied depending on the paperwork and arrangement between you. At the very least a bailment was created.  There is a whole host of causes of action that you can be brought and, yes, they are liable and garages usually have errors and omissiions or some other like insurance to cover situations like this. If you have a written work order or estimate, keep it safe if it does not indicate any evidence of a rod knock. I have seen garages falsify work orders to cover their negligence. Hope this helps.

Dave #17592

So if you bring your car in to buy tires and the motor throws a rod while the guy is backing it out of the garage, the place is liable?   I dont think so.   Dont think his insurance covers it, and certainly not without a huge deductible.   I suppose if you left your car with a valet parking attendant at a nice restaraunt and the second he sits behind the wheel the motor throws a rod even before he puts the car in drive.  The restaraunt has to buy you a new motor?   Im sure that even if insurance would cover it, which it will not, the Manager will happiliy eat a thousand dollar insurance deductible to keep you coming back.   With most small business struggling just to make payroll, theyll love having YOU as a customer.

Yes, it is sad and unfortunate that his car needs major engine work.   But be real.  Bad things happen some times and it isnt always someones fault.

On vacation my Cad developed an engine knock.  No misuse, plenty of oil and easy miles.   I had to eat a $6,000 repair bill when all was said and done.   Can I come over to your business and submit a claim?   I think I was there when all this happened.   And, NO,  I didnt have the money to fix it.  I had to borrow the money against my houses mortgage.   So I sympathize with this mans loss.   But stop pointing fingers for blame.  I see no reason that there is any liability here.  

Joe R #20442

When I was in college I had a carb problem on an 84 Dodge Shelby Charger I was letting my brother use.  A shop in Ithaca, NY rebuilt it, and when my brother drove it home he heard a loud clanking noise and then the motor died.  Since we are both motorheads, the first thing we thought was a dropped nut in the intake manifold.  When he had it towed back to the shop, they tried to convince him it couldnt have been anything they did.  When my brother gave them our theory, and insisted he witness them pulling the heads off, they finally admitted that their tech had lost a nut during the installation!  If it were the average person, they would have paid for a new engine that the shop destroyed.  The nut broke a piston and put a rod through the block, and the shop paid for a used engine and reinstalled it for me.

If I were you, Stan, make them tear it down in front of you and look for foreign objects.  Good luck!

Joe R

Denise 20352


  Maybe the garage owner will fix it if you just ask him nicely.  A shops reputation is crucial, even if not all owners realize that.  Word of mouth and location are the two main things that keep them going.

-denise

Mike #19861


 I beg to differ.

 Coincidences do happen, I know. having being employed in this sector for 25 years, I have seen many of them.

 But, for every coincidence, there are five cases of abuse. If the car was taken in for a carb adjustment, chances are an employee took the car for a road test. This no doubt included one WOT application to check secondary operation.

 Also, on a car that has easy miles, it will not as easily stand up to a WOT period as a car that has been at least occasionaly thrashed. The employee will not admit to any abuse. His job is on the line for it, and the garages reputaion and a potential big repair bill that they may not be able to afford. The employee may have driven it hard, but may not think that he drove it hard enough to cause any damage.

 This situation will be a difficult one to deal with. Good communication is essential here. You may end up meeting the shop halfway for the fix, but I doubt you will get a full reimbursement. I would have them tear down the engine in your presence, or the presence of a neutral 3rd party. But be prepared, they may not find anything untoward negligence on their part any more than a dislodged chunk of carbon that placed a severe shock load on a rod bearing. But, if evidence of foreign material that has entered the cylinder is exposed, then yes, they will be liable for the repair bill.

 But do try and avoid a long, expensive and stressful coart battle. It will do no good to either of you.

 Mike

Paul VW

I hardly think a WOT throttle run is negligence-  its what the car was designed to do, and should be done as part of checking and tuning the carb.  If an engine throws a rod from this, its because there was a problem with the engine.

Denise


  If you borrowed someones car to buy groceries and blew up the engine, would you feel obligated to fix it, or would you just tow it back home to him with the engine blown up?

  Asking if you would blame the grocery store would be just one more bad analogy.  The right thing to do would be to fix the car.

-denise

Mike #19861


 Any car is designed for even extended WOT times, but in an older car, you have to treat them with a little more respect. Also, who is to say that the car had not been over revved in a lower gear?

  In todays climate of engines that easily will sustain bursts of 6000 rpm, the Cadillac 472/500 is hard pressed to run over 5000 rpm. Any kid may think the engine will run past this, engine damage will result, and a typical failure of a 500 is usually a thrown rod. These engines are very durable, but when pressed past their design limits, can let go catastrophically.

  Mike