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auto dispute

Started by Denise 20352, October 26, 2005, 05:50:22 PM

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Denise 20352


  An attorney friend told me that I shouldnt publicly say that a car dealer is ignoring my complaints until I have sent a certified letter, so Im cooking one up.  The car manufacturor also said that I should contact their management team.  Does this sound OK?  It sounds a little angry, but should I take that out and try to as polite as possible, or should I let them know that I feel this way?  Your opinions welcome.  Thanks.

Dear Management Team:

   I am writing to you at the request of XXXXXX Motor Company, and on my own behalf, to request a resolution of the problem with my 2004 XXXXX XXXXXXX.  I purchased the car last year in October, and have had problems with the steering that have made the car too dangerous for me to drive.

   At present, the car has very little power steering when static.  When in motion, the steering is also very weak, and totally unpredictable.  I never know when it will have power steering and when it wont, which makes the car hard to handle, and sometimes it jerks to the right without warning.

   The steering wheel also shakes at certain speeds, however, that is a problem which has occured only today, and may be a result of having sat for months without moving.  I had not driven the car since June.

   I took the car to your service department twice last year.  The first time, I was charged $59 to put the car on the alignment rack, which, I thought, was  ludicrous, since I had just paid $1400 for an extended warranty.  Nothing was fixed.  When I took it back the second time, your mechanic was very rude.  He attempted to convince me that the problem was due to my driving, and not to a problem with the car.  I was able to demonstrate to him that the car was difficult to steer and making noises at idle, and he said, I quote, "Thats because it is trying to force 700 psi through a small orifice."  I asked for an explanation as to why the engine was incapable of doing that, and he wouldnt even talk to me.  He took the service order, crumpled it up and threw it in the trash.

   The problem has nothing to do with my driving.  My husband drove me to Dallas and back in the car last June, and I was thrown up against the door several times as the car swerved to the right.  He also noticed that the car pulled very hard to one side, but it wasnt always the same side.

   I called and asked to speak to a manager, and was transferred to a sales manager.  I asked if I could return the car, and he said that they might be able to give me $15,500.  This means that it would have cost me more than $10,000 cash to get rid of the car.  I also spoke to XXXX XXXXXXXXXX, the salesman who sold me the car, who told me to take it up with the service department.  Honestly, is there anyone at XXX XXXXX who shows a customer any courtesy?

   I am asking, at this time, that you take the car back for fair market value.  I ask this not only because I have no confidence in your service departments willingness or ability to repair the car, but also because I am extremely disappointed  with the quality of the car overall.  The CD player wont eject discs, the seats are lumpy, the windows, rattle, etc...not what I would expect from a car with only 20,000 miles on it.  I will pay the difference between fair market value and what is owed on the loan.

   Please reply to me by US Mail or by email, as I need to keep a record.  Also, please let me know if you do not wish your reply, if any, to be made public.


-denise McCracken, etc, etc

Matt V16

   Most.. wait, correct that, All dealerships teach their staff the same thing.. If you already have their money, then just ignore them. However, if you have to talk to them, just give them a real good story and be sure that you have several other staff members right next to you so they can all back your lie up and out number the customer.. Mix him or her up by tossing too many things around at once so they get dizzy and just want out of the building, then, sit on your ass and laugh while you drink your coffee, waiting for the next sucker..Make sure they hear you laugh at them while they are leaving..  Oh wait, never buy a car from England! Why you ask? Well because its special and parts and labor are also "Special". I just got screwed for $645 from the Rolls Royce dealer because my car needed a simple cap and rotor but it took them 6 weeks before they even brought my car in the shop (yes, it sat 6 weeks behind their shop) and then, the job that should have taken 20 minutes took over 4 hours at $125 an hour which is what Rolls Royce charges.. I would like to drive my Mack truck into their showroom.

Richard Sills - CLC #936

Denise, you may very well get back a response that the amount for which they offered to buy back the car was fair market value at the time.  Now that the 2006 models are in the showroom, the current fair market value may be even less.  Most states have "lemon laws" to enable consumers to get redress in appropriate situations.  I dont know whether the facts of your case would qualify, but there are lawyers who specialize in "lemon law" cases, and you might want to consult with one.

Richard

Lou CLC19058

Last year, Ford bought my truck back and I can tell you that the letter you drawn up will get you no where. Buybacks (and repairs for that matter) MUST be approved by mother Ford. The dealer has very little say in the matter.  
If your wish is to pursue a "buyback" you must first understand the parameters of your state lemon law. Ford will not buy your car back if it does not qualify for lemon law status.
If you wish to have your car fixed, then I would recommend you find another dealer for your repair issues . You should also contact Ford customer service directly .The # is in the back of your manual.  Good luck, Lou

Andrew 10642

Densie,

Call your local bar association referral service for an attorney which specializes in consumer law, if your attorney friend doesnt want the case, or you dont wish to refer it to him/her.

Link below refers to Arizona Lemon Law article

http://www.keytlaw.com/az/lemonlaw.htm TARGET=_blank>http://www.keytlaw.com/az/lemonlaw.htm

Barry Wheeler #2189

Dear Denise,

I would follow Richards (and the others as well) advice in getting an attorney specializing in Lemon Law arbitration. (Richard is an attorney.) Also getting in touch with your states onbudsman for consumer affairs, which is usually the Attorney General.
Last year I had a far less serious problem with a TV that I addressed to the Attorney Generals office in Indianapolis. They took it seriously, assigned the matter a case #, contacted the manufacturer, and did a follow-up to make sure the matter was resolved.
The Attorneys General of the various states are set up to handle complaints such as yours, and while you will probably think that the process will never end, hopefully, you will come out OK in the end.
Purchasing a car is the second most expensive thing people buy after a home, and you should be able to get one that works. Period! Good luck!

Matt Harwood

Have you taken the car to another mechanic for a second opinion? Perhaps an independent mechanic that you trust (or that was recommended by someone on this board as trustworthy)? The problem sounds ambiguous, and though youre sure theres a problem, if it cant be diagnosed and repaired, then its going to be a very difficult battle for you.

And please dont take this the wrong way, I mean no insult, but are you SURE the car has a problem? Ive seen your posts on here about how awful new cars are and how even your Mercury Grand Marquis feels like a "sports car" and how much better the cars of old were, particularly in the steering and suspension departments. I understand that you have health problems that make driving difficult, but are you certain there is a flaw in the car? Cars dont just suddenly swerve, and they certainly dont randomly pull to one side or the other unless theres something seriously amiss. If the mechanics who charged you $59 to look at the car didnt find anything wrong, Im guessing that is likely the case. I cant think of anything else that would cause these problems you describe that wouldnt be immediately obvious to anyone looking under the car (bent tie rods, damaged A-arms, bent rims, etc.). Perhaps your expectations and the cars normal behavior are incompatible?

Theres no excuse for the behavior they exhibited, but perhaps they are frustrated by you insisting there is a problem and their inability to find one? My father is a doctor, and has a few patients who come to him almost weekly with ficticious ailments. These 3 or 4 patients take up a lot of his time but dont have problems for which he can bill them, so he "gives" away his time to them. He cant really turn them away, so he deals with them, but its frustrating. Hes gotten testy with one or two of them a few times.

Im not saying this is all in your head, but take the car to someone you trust for a proper evaluation. Or drive a similar car and see if it exhibits the same behavior. As I said, perhaps this is just the wrong car for you and its normal operation isnt to your satisfaction.

Just a few thoughts. Hope I didnt hurt any feelings.
--
Matt Harwood
Cleveland, OH
My 1941 Buick Century restoration:
http://www.harwoodperformance.bizland.com/1941buick/index.html TARGET=_blank>http://www.harwoodperformance.bizland.com/1941buick/index.html

Densie 20352


   Ive received quite a few replies from people who think that I should pursue this under the lemon law, so Im going to go for it.  Im taking it back in Tuesday, for the third attempt to get it repaired.  The state says that I have to take it in four times.  That has to make more sense than making payments on it while it sits under a cover.

-denise

Denise 20352


  No, you didnt hurt my feelings, because that is the same thing that the mechanic at Ford said.  However, my husband drove the car to Dallas and I was slammed up against the door a few times as the car suddenly swerved.  He complained that the car pulled hard to the side, but it wasnt always the same side.

  If someone dies in an accident because the car runs off of the road, does it help to say that the steering problem was in my head?

  Yes, the car is garbage and to say that Im dissatisfied with the quality would be the understatement of the year, but the problem with the steering was the reason that I parked it.

-denise

Matt Harwood

Sometimes truck ruts in the road can cause wide tires to pull the car to one side or the other. It can be startling and significant. I get it frequently in both my Mustang and my Mazda. It has, on occasion, been significant enough that I thought I had a flat.

Just another $0.02.

Densie


  I dont know about truck ruts on the interstate, but again, not very useful when youre sitting in a wheelchair attending your husbands funeral.  If wide tires can cause the car to swerve, then they are a design flaw, and they need to take the car back.

-d

Johan Boltendal # 158

Following your car problems for a while now seeing all the trouble you encounter, I thought it might help if I give my opinion. Having been in the new car sales and repairs for 30 years and having seen and heard your video, I think its a serious steering related question, if its the pump or the box itself cannot be said that easy. Personally I suspect the steering box to be at fault, what you describe is dangerous and I dare say not factory specs, tires can cause a lot of trouble too, but thats an easy fix. put a set of different wheels and tires on the car and see how the car behaves then.

I strongly suggest you visit a reputable and knowledgeable dealer who is willing to help you and not let you hang out to dry, to have it sorted out.

 Have you driven one of their demonstrator cars, or perhaps contacted an owner with the same car as your self and drive each others vehicle to compare, that way you can perhaps define your problem and notice a difference between the two cars.

Stay on it and take care your warranty doesnt expire,  Johan


Denise


  I drove the demo car, but only a couple of blocks.  Because it was raining, the car was unfamliar to me, and I was taking pain medicine and about to pass out, I really didnt want to drive it.  I wasnt in any condition to shop for cars at all, but the insurance company was about to take the truck away and I needed one to drive.

  We did the paperwork for the new car and I didnt have enough of a down payment, so they sold me a preowned car that I hadnt driven.  It sounds like I was really stupid to buy the car at all, but its hard to think clearly after a traumatic event, and with the pain and fatigue.  I dont know exactly when the steering problem started, because I was barely able to turn the steering wheel in any car at the time.

  They have never offered to let me drive a demo car, but that might be one way to see if its just my car thats broken.

-denise

Dick Heller

Denise - You stated you purchased a 2004, all repairs s/b covered under auto manufacturers B2B warranty which is probably 3 years 36K or 4 years 50K is luxury car.  If it was a Factory CERTIFIED used car, the warranty is 7 years 100,000...BETTER THAN NEW CAR warranty.

Dick Heller

Assuming it’s one of the following companies, ask to speak with the Office of The Chairman, you will not speak with the top guns, however, they have highly paid executive assistants who will handle your concerns.

Ford Motor Co.
One American Road
Dearborn, MI 48126
Phone: 313-322-3000

General Motors Corporation
300 Renaissance Center
Detroit, MI 48265-3000
Phone: 313-556-5000

Daimlerchrysler AG
Epplestrasse 225
Stuttgart,  D-70567
Phone: 49 711 170

Denise 20352


  Thanks.  This is great information.  I sent in the email contact and they told me that because the dealerships were independently operated, they couldnt get involved in a sales issue, but maybe I can reach someone higher up with a letter.  Why is everything a sales issue with these people?  You try to speak to a manager, ask about a maintenance issue or whatever, and they send you to Sales and try to sell you a car.  The only way you can get to someone in parts and service is if they think that youre buying something.  Doesnt a company need to support their products as well as sell them?

-denise

Denise 20352


  They give you the balance of the manufacturors warranty, but it covers only the basic systems.  For instance, I doubt they would replace the CD player that is eating CDs.  Im not even sure that it covers the steering, but will find out, I guess.  I cancelled the GAP insurance and extended warranty because they were sold to me while I was half asleep.

-denise

William Hunter CLC #21622

DaimlerChrysler USA is a separate entity.
Stuttgart will tell you to call the USA office and hang up on you.
If you persist in calling, they will block your phone number.
Very sad that some Mercedes Benz owners have discovered this the hard way.

Dave Leger CLC #19256

Hi Denise,

   Years ago I was forman of a jury in a case where someone turned in an Eldorado convertible (80s) for voluntary reposession (after many late or missed payments in 2 years and 24,000 miles).  It sold for less than they owed.  GMAC sent them a bill for the balance.  They refused to pay.  They claimed the car had steering issues, and was unsafe.  It took 3 years to get to court.  GM sued for the money, and the interest.  We ended up finding for GM for the full amount.  2 things that hurt this persons case:

1)  Their lawyer protested the car sold too low, but he brought in the Kelly Blue Book, when GM uses NADA, so it was not allowed to be considered as evidence.  If theyd had a lawyer used to automobile fniance cases, he would have known better.

2)  They had no records of any correspondence with GM, any service records about steering problems.  Any receipts for repair attempts, etc.

If they had had proof that they had been trying to address a safety issue, we might have at least not given GM the interest.  With the late and missed payments, and no records, we had little choice.   Moral of the story, keep records of everything you send, everything you receive, every receipt, etc.  Hopefully you can reach a resolution through the lemon law or arbitration, and not end up in court, but its best to plan for the worst, just in case.

Dave

Densie


  I wonder how the fact that a bank financed this car is going to make a difference.  It would be the bank suing for their money, so the fact that the car was unsafe wouldnt matter to anyone.  (Not that it does now)

  Obviously allowing the car to be reposessed is a bad plan, but there are worse.  I could shell out $500 for this months payment, or $1340 for payment and tags, or $940 for payment and just one year of tags, but to tell you the truth, the idea of paying any of the above on that rickety piece of trash just gives me a sick feeling.  Im not sure that I can convince myself to dump any more money into it, no matter what the alternative.  Ive been paying the monthly payment while it sat under a car cover for the last few months, but when I got that $840 bill for registration, it just suddenly hit home.  The fact that Im paying for it and cant drive it seems more real to me now, as the tags are about to expire.

-denise