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Fresh Flathead - Clacking Lifters

Started by Chip Lamb Region Director Central VA #18425, December 18, 2005, 06:10:23 PM

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Chip Lamb Region Director Central VA #18425

Just finished the 6 month project of running through the drivetrain in my 40 LaS 5019. In the improvements column, the rotating assembly has been balanced to 1/4 gram and as many new parts were used as were available.

I also had the machinist drill and tap the block for a full flow oil filter directly above the pump where the original feed plug/ sending unit hole was for a bypass filter. That channel was filled directly above this and a second hole created above it for the feed from the filter. The gauge fitting was put in the outlet from the filter and we are seeing 27-30psi hot at idle.

The lifters have not quieted after over an hour of running. A slow drive under load did not help it. On assembly, priming the system resulted in plenty of oil at the T fitting which the book and Walts multi-part series in the SS suggested to leave loose. We put new guts in the lifters and resurfaced the bodies for the new cam.

I can go back in and check the lifters but Im pretty sure Im not going to see anything I didnt see before. Wondering what Im missing here.

mailto:chip@wmsbrg.com TARGET=_blank>mailto:chip@wmsbrg.com

Bruce Reynolds # 18992

Gday Chip,

Question.   Did you run-in the cam to the lifters?

If not, the problem could be right there.

99percent of camshaft/lifter damage is done in the first 5 minutes of an engine being started with new, or reconditioned, parts.

An engine should never be allowed to idle as the only lubrication that the lobes get is from splash feed, and that is very poor when idling.   Slow running-in is the worst thing to do to a motor.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

John Washburn

Chip,

One thing that will cause this is if you did not grind the valve ends to the specified 3, from the end of the valve to the low side of the cam, per the shop manual and Walts article. Ive seen this before when shops have rebuilt flat head engines, they did not adjust the valves (grind them to specs).

If the car seems to run ok but clatters/makes lifter noises this might be the culprit.

Good luck, it took me a lot of time to find a bent valve on a 39 LaSalle last week. Thank goodness this is just a hobby.

John Washburn
CLC #1067




Chip#18425

No, we followed Walts article to the letter. We had a couple which were not 3 by a miniscule amount and went back and dealt with them!

Quote from: John WashburnChip,

One thing that will cause this is if you did not grind the valve ends to the specified 3, from the end of the valve to the low side of the cam, per the shop manual and Walts article. Ive seen this before when shops have rebuilt flat head engines, they did not adjust the valves (grind them to specs).

If the car seems to run ok but clatters/makes lifter noises this might be the culprit.

Good luck, it took me a lot of time to find a bent valve on a 39 LaSalle last week. Thank goodness this is just a hobby.

John Washburn
CLC #1067




Chip #18425

Everything was overlubed and overprimed. 30psi plus at varying slow and faster idle speeds. Cant see what was done wrong on assembly.

Quote from: Bruce Reynolds # 18992Gday Chip,

Question.   Did you run-in the cam to the lifters?

If not, the problem could be right there.

99percent of camshaft/lifter damage is done in the first 5 minutes of an engine being started with new, or reconditioned, parts.

An engine should never be allowed to idle as the only lubrication that the lobes get is from splash feed, and that is very poor when idling.   Slow running-in is the worst thing to do to a motor.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

Brad Ipsen #737

Dont forget that the 3-inch dimension is for factory new parts.  If the lifters are faced that will change this dimension.  I do them the hard way.  A collapsed lifter should have from 0.030 to 0.070 clearance to the valve.  It is difficult to collapse a lifter so the easiest way is to take an old one and remove the little spring and use that to set the valves.

wm link

Did you prime the lifters first?  soak them in a coffee can filled with oil about an inch above the lifters...after they soak a while,  depress (pump) each plunger with a scredriver, until they pump up...then install them.

Barry M. Wheeler #2189

I didnt check all the threads, and our historical guru, Doug Houston, hasnt signed in yet. This story is on him. He had the same problem, fully restored engine, etc. What had happened is that one of the spacers that usually stick to the valve springs had fallen out, and that was causing the noise. One of the very, very few times he has messsed up. Perhaps that is what has happened with your engine.

John Washburn

Chip,

I think Brad got it. If you resurfaced the bodies you changed the clearance between the lifters and the valve stem. So I would check the clearance I bet it is off.

John Washburn
CLC #1067

Doug Houston

I dont think that your problem is the one that Barry mentioned. Specifically, the little spring seats up on the valve guides were the midding pieces. With those gone (or some of them, at least), the engine would barely run, and there was even cross-firing. If your engine is running decently, but with empty lifters, you have all of the valve spring seats in place.

NOW, you said that you re-gutted the lifters. Could you have mixed the plungers with the springs in the bores of other plungers. I wouldnt expect it, but its a cardinal sin if its done. The inner assembly (plungers and their cylinfers) are super-precisely fitted, and the manuals emphasize not mixing these mated parts.

Bill Sullivan

Is it one lifter clacking or many?  If it is many, you need to start by disconnecting the external oil line on the front of the engine and confirm that oil is getting to that point.  If so, then disconnect the line under the manifold and confirm that there is oil there. It is rare, but I have seen short oil lines like these plugged. If all this is OK, then you need to remove the manifolds and covers and look at the lifter groups now that the engine has run. You can see if the lifters are extended or not -- if they are fully extended, then you have too much clearance and will need to fix that, probably with new, longer valves.  If they are collapsed, then there is no oil getting to those lifters or they are not working properly -- perhaps there is some problem with your full flow modification, an oil line is constricted, or the lifters were not assembled properly.  

If it is just one valve clacking, you can be fairly certain oil is making  it to the lifters --because the other 15 valves are quiet.  I would try to identify which is the clacker (just isolating the lifter group would probably be enough), remove that set and clean and check each one.  A small piece of dirt in the check valves could cause this problem, you just need to find it.

Good luck and stop that clacking!  It is very un-LaSalle...

Bill.