Latest ebay sellers stunt

[John Tozer # 7946]

Go figure this one!

I lodge a bid on an item on Ebay with two hours to go. At the time, the item has received one other bid, a "starting bid" for the initial amount.

I get up in the morning, check "My Ebay" only to find that my did was "retracted" two hours after I lodged it and the item has gone to the original "starting bidder" for the "starting bid" amount (nearly half my maximum bid amount) with the explanation "Item damaged". Hows that I think? - I was sound asleep at 3.00 in the morning and I never at any stage either retracted my bid or claimed the item was damaged!!! More importantly, how did someone else access my Ebay account to actually activate the retraction?

Angry email to Ebay for a please explain!

Response today - it appears THE SELLER retracted my bid! Not only that, Ebay says that it is entirely within the Ebay rules!

Whats the betting the seller didnt like the bid history with minutes to go, invented a cock-and-bull story about it being damaged and somehow contrived to retract MY bid for me?

How many times is this likely to happen whenever the seller doesnt like the way his/her auction is going? What is the Ebay Buyers "equal and opposite" scam for this blatant refusal to sell me an auction item for the genuine bid price? Can I withdraw the item from sale on behalf of the seller with an explanation that "wife/girlfriend didnt like it?"

If anyone doesnt believe this has happened, email me for the details of the auction and copies of the to-and-from Ebay emails.


Regards,



John Tozer

[Kevin Bielinski]

EBay is used as the biggest racket/fraud operation on the internet.  Ive had this happen to me as well. Whats going to happen? Someone will get a negative feedback? I could go on and on and on about EBay. People do get hacked both ways with that site.

[denise 20352]

  It is "legal" for the seller to retract your bid.  Good business practice dictates that they would put "item subject to prior sale" in the description, or let you know before they retract your bid, but they dont have to.

-denise

[Joseph Meneghin]

One of two things happened here.  Seller listed the car with no reserve and did not like where the bidding was, or B, which is even more underhanded, they received a cash offer on the car and now dont want to pay the commission to ebay, so they claim the item got damaged or is no longer available for sale.  


Rest assured, I would bet every nickel I own, the car was not pulled from auction because it was damaged.

[George Woodford clc21025]

I noticed a 1977/8 Cadillac red steering wheel for auction on Ebay once that the Seller decided to end, because the item was damaged.  Go figure...

[Eric Kahn clc 20839]

I bid on a car in december, was outbid at the last minute, by someone with a feedback of 5 (last item he bought was underwear)
same car is now relisted in january by the same seller (a car lot)
so much for "no reserve" auctions

[Andrew 10642]

What was the auction number?

[John Tozer #7946]

Item # 6593375731

[Dale]

The thing I dont understand is that so many people whine and moan when things on Ebay dont go according to plan. Ebay is just another place to sell secondhand stuff. Some of its good, some of its junk. Some sellers are honest, some are scammers. We all know this, yet many of us seem to get shocked when something turns out to be junk or "sold" by a scammer.

Heres the thing... if youre spending a load of money (say more than 5k) on a car or something else, invest a few hundred bucks and go check out the item yourself. Just like you would if you were buying out of the classifieds. The number of people who complain that "the car wasnt what the seller said it was" is really quite amazing. Are you surprised? (You know, theres probably a good reason why they are selling it on Ebay and not locally).

If its a cheaper item, then check the sellers feedback carefully, and bid accordingly. If their feedback is poor, then they are just the same as a suspicious looking fella at the swap meet. If you bid, you are taking your chances. If you miss out on the item you bid on by actions you suspect to be devious, then count yourself lucky that the devious act was discovered without you parting with your money.

I have bought a number of classic cars (and parts) via Ebay in the USA to have them shipped to me here in Australia. When the car gets here and isnt what the seller claimed (which has happened more than once), I just roll my sleeves up and deal with it. Having a whinge wont fix it.

No doubt, this will sound harsh to some people. So be it. At the end of the day, if you cant deal with things going wrong, dont buy via Ebay. Go down the road to the car yard, the junkyard, or buy from a commercial parts supplier and pay a bit more, or look for a bit longer. That way, youll be able to check out the item yourself and know what youre getting.

And after all of that, just get in your Caddy and go for a cruise. Smile, and let all that grieves you float off in the breeze. Because at the end of that day, isnt that what its all about?

[denise 20352]

  I think you have the right idea.  Ebay is a relatively new way of doing business, and consequently, there are many different philosophies of business practice.  If you buy something and dont receive it, or if the seller misrepresents it, thats obviously wrong, but when it comes to something like pulling an auction, there are grey areas.

  As an example, a car that I bought was up for auction on Ebay, with one bid.  Since so many car bidders default, I didnt see anything wrong with going and making a cash offer on the car.  From the sellers point of view, he was better off taking the cash than letting the auction run out in the hope that this person who had zero feedback was going to pick up the car.  Many people would say that what I did was wrong.  All things considered, Im neutral on it ethics-wise.

  I also asked a seller to end an auction early on an Alphaserver.  I was a couple of days away from beta testing a product when my R&D box died, so I had to have one immediately.  Its not an item that you can just go and buy in a store, so I looked on Ebay and happened to luck out.  There werent any bids on this item, and so I think that most people would say that it was fair to pull it, but some would still say that the auction should have run its course.

  There are many other grey areas as well, like who is fault when the post office loses a package, or what happens when the seller finds out during the auction that his product is actually damaged, or not what he thought it was.

-denise

[Geoff Newcombe #4719]

It should also be noted that ebay has an automobile inspection service for $99.50.  WELL worth it.  Especially if the car is a long distance away and times too short to get there or for one reason or another you cant get there at all right then; but you REALLY want that car if it is as advertised or even close.  Really no excuse to get stung on a car if you didnt have someone you know or ebays service check it out for you.

I dont buy the argument that if the item was any good it would/could be sold locally.  Ebay exposes the sellers item (car or car parts in this case) to a good part of the WORLD, even if you choose to sell only to someone on the  North American continent because of all the fraud out there, you are getting tremendous exposure for an item that not a lot of people "locally" might have even the slightest interest in (as incredibly unbelievable as that may sound).  I have purchased many items on ebay to restore and fix up my 60 Cadillac that I might never have found otherwise, or it certainly would have taken a lot longer, and am generally pleased with my "ebay experience".  Its a tough, mean world out there, mixed in with some really great people, and it probably cant be stated often enough, "caveat emptor", bottom line.
Geoff N.  Ebay "handle" 150pacer      

[dale jackson]

 Without out ebay . I could never sold my extra 1959 thru 1964v parts and bought parts I needed to restore my 1960 eldo.

 Try buying and selling vintage cadillac parts without. I could have never sold my stuff and bought stuff I needed.

 Before you were at mercey of cadillac part dealers or hemming. Try calling any big time used cadillac dealer. On rare parts they sold out years ago. If find it or have it. They ask like 1500 or 2500 for set 1959 or 1960 convertible windows or some very high price. If tryed trade parts they would not give anything for extra parts since there dealer.

 Ebay fixed where the little guys can sell there extra parts like me and buy the little parts etc. It helped move tons parts I had 1964 eldo trim set, 61 hubcabs, 59 fin trim etc. etc etc.

 All my parts I could never sold locol but with ebay I shiped junk all the world.

 Ebay also let me save lots money on parts for cadillac becides buying overpriced cadillac dealers. I bought lots extra stuff I needed from hobby guys restoring cadillacs just like me.

 It has even gotten  me some super rare eldo trim My car was needing. In hemming or big time dealers never had or never will.
 I looked for over two years for them and I found my super trim I needed to complete my 1960 eldo.

 Ebay has bad pionts also, spoof email, slow servers rip off guys etc on there. No phone support what so ever. dead beat bidders on cars. It funny I never I had deadbeat bidder on my vintage cadillac parts I have there but On me trying sale cars I had tons deadbeets.

  The thing I hate most about ebay. Example I bid 225 for an 1959 or 1960 quater windows . In last 30 secords of auction they beat me out over 2.5 dollers. I was so sad since I been looking for parts for car since 2003. It seems all time I keep geting sniped on parts I need bad for my car.

 The last I hate. I bid on stuff and ask this peaple qustions etc and never they reply back or anything. I need know how much shiping cost is etc or if part busted or whatever.  Why sell it if not going servive the buyer ?? I wish I knew why ?

  Here latly ebay been drag for me . I need parts for cars real bad .

 Dale

[steve]

hell, a year and a half or two years ago i bid  and was high bidder on a car in washington a yellow 39 chevy. at close of auction with reserve met. and had bid rejected because car was sold for more at dealers lot. and was told dealer was gone and nobody at lot knew how too remove it from ebay.all the bs about could not get in contact with dealer ect. complant to ebay phone calls  went nowhere. now i contact sellers when i do anything on ebay.they dont have any bite

[Jim Snell #21544]

Howdy,
Sorry for being long winded. 100percent true, and one of those lessons in life, one never forgets!

A couple of years ago, I was bidding on a 23,000 mile 1977 Eldorado coupe. Red with red leather! WOW! One family owned in the Southern California area. The car was inherited by the seller whos aunt had purchased it new. It was pretty much a flawless always garaged car. It drove out OK, but had a "ticking" sound in the engine which was declared in the sale and was keeping the price low. It looked like I could own it for about $2500.00.

Before I placed a bid, I had a buddy who lives in Torrance go over and look at the car, drive it, verify the paperwork, and talk to the seller.. I made arrangements with my buddy to store the car at his house until I could have a transporter pick it up to bring back to Indiana..

I was high bidder until the last ten seconds and somebody sniped me.... The sniper drove me up an additional $1000.00 through proxy bidding... I thought this was the end, and didnt think much more about it as I get sniped about 90percent of the time.

Then, a few days later the seller called me to inform me that the buyer had went to see the car and decided not to buy it for the bid price. He tried to get it for less saying it had other problems.. The dead beat bidder told the seller that if he got a negative, he would give the seller the same negative and say the car was misrepresented. (I call this "feedback blackmail" and I will not participate in this and say so in my auctions)

So, the seller suggests that I could now own the car if I am willing to pay the ending bid price... I said, sorry but I will pay the price that the bidding was at when the dead beat sniper came on board... The seller explains in detail how he has lived his life as a good Christian, and just couldnt believe that this bidder didnt buy the car...

He called me the next day and said the logical and Christian thing to do would be to accept my offer that was the bid price when the sniper came into the sale.. I said I would make arrangements for my buddy to bring a cashiers check and come and pick the car up the next day....

I get a call later that same evening, and the seller explains that he was talking to his neighbor about the whole mess, and the neighbor said: "HOW MUCH?!"   So, the seller explains that the neighbor makes out a check for the car on the spot. Buys it right out from under me for the high bid price of the dead beat sniper!...

I was sitting here listening to this guy, and I took a deep breath, and gave a simple "Hoosier" reply..... "Hey buddy, we had a deal! Do you think I was born yesterday? This smells even MORE fishy now. I think you need to rethink your perspective on gentlemens agreements. Furthermore, your interpretation of the term good Christian is obviously different than what we folks here in Indiana are familiar with....... All I know is somehow, I feel that I got the shaft, and I hope your neighbors check bounces.  Adios, whiz-bang, dont call me again, have a great life....... "

 
Later on, I am thinking: "Was this all just a scam? This much scamming and lying to try to sell a $3000.00 car? Or just a typical ebay train wreck?" Hmmmmmmm..... Grrrrrrrrr............

I felt badly that all this wasted my buddys time... He has a busy life and was just trying to help me out...
Over and out, Jim in Indiana.

[Steve Crum, FORMER CLC#20999]

This is hilarious, if it were not for fleabay would there be anything to talk about on this board? After 27 years of looking,
I did buy a 76 Caribou off ebay 2 years ago. and it was only 1,300 miles away. I emailed the seller 2 hours before the auction ended and asked if he would accept the starting bid if the auction ran out with no bidders. He emailed the next day and accepted my offer. I mailed him a cashiers check with a little extra to pay for his notory work, he UPSed a box of parts that could easily be stolen off a transport, and took the day off work to be there when the transport arrived. The transport arrived in a lot about a mile away as I advised the driver not to try my road with a low slung transporter. He called me and said to be there and it was unloaded and warmed up for the drive home. A good fleabay story? It was. I got exactly what was represented, and a fair price.

[denise 20352]

  If youre going to spend a lot of money on something, I would say to email the seller before you bid, and see how long it takes for them to reply.  See if they answer email at all.

  I also look not just at their percentage of feedback, but at the negatives.  Who cares if 600 people were satisfied with what they got, if youre one of the three who was ripped off?

  Agree totally about the convenience of a peer auto parts trading system.  Between that and the mailing lists and forums that I participate in, I have confidence that I can find parts for just about anything.  I can enjoy driving my older cars without having to worry that something unobtainable will break, and find that little piece of trim that has been broken for so long.

-densie

[denise 20352]

  "Sour grapes" used to be a helpful concept, before the ignogencia perverted the meaning of the fable.  The fox couldnt get the grapes; therefore, he consoled himself that they were probably sour anyway.  I would say that the grapes were most likely sour in this case.  Either the seller was dishonest about the "other bidder", or he likely overrepresented the car.  Either way, it might not have been a good deal.

  As far as the "Christian" thing goes, a wise old car lot owner once told me that a man cant be a better Christian than he is a person.  I shy away from sellers that mention anything about religion, because, think about it...how many rabid prosyletizers do you meet in an average day?  Which is more likely...that a business owner is a rabid prosyletizer, or that he is claiming to be selling cars with Jesus at his side because he hopes to use your religious feelings to gain your trust?  Its a no-brainer, for me.

-densie

[Andrew 10642]

If I understand your post correctly, you agreed to pay the beginning bid price for the car if the auction ended with no bids, but it became a moot point when the auction ran out before the seller accepted the next day.  Anyway, the sale was not considered an Ebay sale, because it was consumated after the auction, and was therefore not subject to any feedback requirements or other rules imposed by Ebay.  In fact, Ebay tries very hard to get buyers and sellers not to do this, because they lose revenue, although on Ebay Motors, I think the amount charged depends more on whether the car gets a bid than whether the sale is completed.  Too many sellers jerking "no reserve" auctions, I guess.

Im glad you got what you wanted, but an Ebay sale this wasnt.  If this had been a rip-off by the seller, you would have had no recourse and/or assistance from Ebay in rectifying the situation.

[Fred Garfield 22310]

Excellent post, Dale. I see ebay the same way you do. Its the Wild West. Yes, there are rules there, lots of them. But there are plenty of ways that things can "slip through the cracks."

I bought my 59 Cad on ebay back in July. Relying on my experience, sharp instincts and skillful (but non-confrontational) questioning, I determined early on that the seller was a liar. For example, she said "all the accessories work." Having already determined who I was dealing with, I wrote down "1/2 accessories broken." And so on.

I bought the car anyway because I knew the price was right, even with all the things I would have to fix. Sometimes you just go ahead and do business with an obvious crook because, after calculating the downside, its still an acceptable deal. I have no regrets about buying that car.

[Fred Garfield 22310]

Dale, I hear your frustration but youve got to face reality. If you snipe (like I routinely do) youll win tons of stuff, losing only when another bidder has been willing to submit a higher maximum than you did. The guy that beat you out by $2.50 almost certainly had a maximum bid higher than the hammer price and that final sale price was determined by a **fixed increment** above your maximum bid. So it really wasnt that close a contest. But even when it is that close, thats the way the game is set up. Accept it.

Also, if a seller does not reply to your legitimate questions about his item or try his best to address all your questions with no evasion, you know right out of the box that youre dealing with either a dimwit or a jerk. Then its a judgment call and you either take the gamble or not. If you decide to gamble and you lose, accept immediately that you made a bad call and move on.