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Vacuum system on a 1961 series 62 Cadillac Convertible

Started by Jack Miller, January 22, 2006, 11:19:55 PM

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Jack Miller

Hi,

I just found this page and I am in the middle of trying to bring back to life a 1961 cadillac series 62 convertible that has been off the road since 1964.
I got it around the block yesterday and it was a glorious day to do that.
I just need (I cant find) a guide as to where all of the various vacuum lines go as this car had them pulled out. It is a basic car but I cant find even where the vacuum lines go from the motor or from the emergency brake or from the heater etc.
Can someone please e-mail me an answer or maybe even a diagram.

Thanks
Jack Miller
1961 Cadillac series 62 convertible.

Jim Eccleston CLC 16079

Hi Jack,
   I wrote an article for the Self-Starter some years ago, detailing the A/C vacuum system for 61 & 62s. I must have it on a disk around here somewhere. Contact me off list and I can send it to you. Ill also be happy to help with the other vacuum systems. It is all pretty straitforward.
   Two preliminary questions:

Do you have a shop manual?
Does your car have heater or air conditioning?

jack Miller

Hi Jim,

I have a 1961 cadillac convertible series 62 with no a/c that I am rebuilding.
I have an original shop manual, I have crash sheets and I have an illustrated dealer parts catalouge.
None of them have pix of where the vacuum lines go. I have a vacuum pipe coming out of the intake manifold between the distributor and carb, on the left side with 2 leads and I know that the smaller one goes to the dash pod at the back of the throttle linkage and I have no clue where the larger one goes. There are also a few other vacum lines on the fire wall and under the dash. I know that under the dash one goes to the heater and one to the emergency release but where they all go and to where, I have no clue.
Any help would be apreciated.

Thanks
Jack Miller

Jim Eccleston CLC 16079

   There is a big line that comes out of the back of the carb via an angled metal fitting. This one goes to the cowl, connects to a white plastic modulator, then connects to the T on the brake booster. Form the other end of the T, the hose loops under the booster and connects to the vacuum storage tank tucked well in and under the left fender/hood hinge.
   From the top of the brass fitting on the intake manifold, a rubber hose loops over to connect with the anti-stall dashpot on the throttle relay, mounted on the cowl under the wiper motor.
   From the side of the fitting on the intake manifold, a rubber hose loops over to the cowl, runs along the lip (with various wires, and the hoses for the windshield washer)over the brake booster, almost to the left hood hinge, then loops down and plugs into the nipple in the center of the black plastic junction box that a bunch of wires also plug into.
   Now you get to play contortionist inside the car, near the brake pedal and steering column... You will see on the inside of the cowl a wiring connector box that corresponds to the one on the engine side. There is another nipple for the vacuum hose to connect to. After a few inches of vacuum hose, there should be a small white vacuum modulator (about as big as the end of your thumb). It is round, but also makes a T, and there is a flat foot at one end. The vacuum line plugs into this, then one side goes out to the neutral safety switch. From the switch, another line goes into the brake release. The other hose, out of the modulator, goes up behind the dash and plugs into the heater control swithc. From the switch, yaet another line comes out, goes back through the cowl/firewall, into the engine compartment, and plugs into the vacuum actuator that sits on the heater box, right near the blower motor and housing.
   This modulator is supposed to allow engine vacuum to suck air out, but not allow air back in. Inside there is some sort of flapper valve, so you need to test it and hook it up the right way.
   I will search my files and see if I have any pics I can send you directly. let me know if I have totally confused you...

jack Miller

Jim,

I am in hose land without a paddle.
I will print this and try to follow it on Friday when it goes into the 40s here.
(The car is out doors).
I am sorry that I couldnt open the pictures but as i said I can only open jpeg.

Thanks
jack

Jim Eccleston CLC 16079



Mick

Hello Jim, pardon my spoon in your plate.

The vacuum control operated by the heater lever on a non- airconditioned 61 has four ports;  Â¿Can you please let me know which NUMBER port has no hose connected to it and if it stays vented or capped?

I do have the service manual, I know so far the
-black hose(vacuum source to port stamped #3),
-green hose(connects the actuator diaphragm to port stamped #4),
-yellow hose(connects the hot water pass valve to port ???)

Thanks,
Mick

Jim Eccleston CLC 16079

Hi Mick,
   The heater switch on AC cars also has four ports, so I think they are the same part. It would be interesteing to check the master part numbers. The little information I have does not show a different number for AC and non-AC cars.
   On AC cars, there is an octopus-like hose harness with a big 4-port plug at each end, and color-coded hoses. This connects the two switches together, then individual hoses run off to the actuators. This is needed since the heater and AC can be operated at the same time, and there must be a mathematical combination of vacuum inputs to get all those flaps open correctly.
   With heater only cars, there should only be one input - open or closed. therefore I would assume that numbers 1 and 2 ports should be plugged. This is speculation.
   When the sun comes up, Ill dig through the parts shed and find an extra switch and harness. They are AC only, but I can look and see which hose goes into which port. But for now, I think you have it right, and just need to plug those other two.

Jim Eccleston CLC 16079

I forgot to mention - I will check on the yellow hose connection, too.
The water valve is controlled by a Bowden cable - no vacuum input.

Jim Eccleston CLC 16079

Hi Mick,
   I have my extra switches and harness before me now. On the heater switch connector:

Port 1 is blue and goes out to the door that diverts air toward either the heater core or the AC evaporator.

Port 2 is purple, and has a T to the AC switch and the heater box.

Port 3 is black, and has a T to connect to the AC switch and the vacuum source

Port 4 is yellow and connects directly to the AC switch

The vacuum system is really strange, and has cross-routed lines that go to one, then another switch before heading to the actuators. Because heater and AC can be used at the same time, vacuum has to go to one or both switches, depending on the mode. Sometimes AC input comes out of the heater switch, and vice-versa.

  I think that we can safely say that Port 3 should be black, and is the vacuum source.

Port 1 should not be used on a non-AC car. No need to divert air into the evaporator.

Port 2 should not be used on a non-AC car. No need for 80/20 recirculated air, or 50/50 AC/heater air. On the other hand, purple should have vacuum at all times when either AC is one. These are overridden during normal AC use by green and blue.

That leaves us with port 4. In an AC car, the yellow hose connects back into the AC switch, and from there, the AC switch connects it with the green hose, which is the outside air inlet valve on the heater box. Without AC, the same function of port 4 should be to connect directly to the air inlet actuator via a green hose. yellow from heater to open the outside air inlet would be cut off during recirc by the AC switch, but purple would still allow the 20percent outside air in.

Yikes!!! Does this make sense without Peyote?

Looking at page 14-3 of the shop manual, I see black and green hoses connecting to the heater switch, but no yellow or anything else.

All of this leads me to believe that:

ports 1 and 2 on the heater switch should be blocked off.
port 3 should have the black vacuum source hose
port 4 should have the green hose for the fresh air inlet actuator

Try hooking it up this way, and see what happens. At least it is not electrical, so no sparks or permanent damage should result!!!
I am curious what will happen.
Next time I go to the junkyard I will inspect the non-air 61s there, and see what they have.

Mick

Thanks Jim, am getting closer with your help.

The thing is I have a 61 AND a 62 and both were bought with the hoses disconnected, both have the yellow hose hanging and both are non-AC cars, and no chances for me to find one at the boneyard for sure witnessing.

From the days I serviced the heating assembly, I saw the bowden cable directs the hot air towards the windshield or towards feet, (or both) and nothing to do with the hot water pass valve.

The only sure thing so far is
Port #3 takes the vacuum supply black hose;
Port #4 takes the blue hose to the bellows actuator.

Thanks, have a great day.
Mick

Ramses

I know this tread is very old, but i'm in the same boat, i need to plug all vacuum hose on a cadillac 1962 (no A/C) Does anyone have a schematic or something, so i can see how every vacuum hose should be plugged?
... To see my actual project: http://cadillac1962.com/

Ludoviksken

Quote from: Jim Eccleston   CLC 16079 on January 26, 2006, 04:59:58 AM
jpegs are on the way to you.

Is it possible to send the schematics for the vacuum tubes to me too ?

Greetings Nathan.

quadfins

#14
From the 1961 shop manual.

If you have specific questions, don't hesitate to ask.
Jim Eccleston
1961 Coupe de Ville
BATILAC
Senior Crown
DeCou Driving Award x 4

Ludoviksken

Hi Jim,

I recently rewired everything like you said and most things are working so far but One thing. I created an other post with more information about the problem but I will paste it below because I thought you could help me.

--------------------------------------------------
"Dear friends

A few days ago i did a full overhaul of my heater core and heater itself. i cleaned it, painted it and put on some new seals. the heatercore is fully renewed with a brand new core. So I'm assuming that the core itself shouldn't be the problem, i also checked if it becomes warm an it does.
Now the problem that occures with my heater is that there is only coming hot air out of the windshield vents, but there comes cold air from the passenger compartment (driver side, middle and passenger side). is this something normal or should there be coming hot air from these vents too? i find it annoying that only cold air blows out of these vents.

Sorry for my bad English, its not my native language

thank u in advance.
Nathan.

(if there needs to be more explanations feel free to ask me)"
----------------------------------------------------------------------

quadfins

#16
Hi Nathan,

   By your descrition of the vents, I will assume that your car is equipped with air conditioning. That will make a difference in some of the following description, but not really for the main substance of your question.

Also, when I refer to the "heater box", I am referring to the metal box located inside the car, near the passengers feet, where the heater core is located. When I say AC box, that is the fiber box in the engine compartment, that has all of the vacuum actuators on it.

When the air is directed in either direction, it is divided before it goes through either the heater core, or the AC evaporator, so it is not a mixture of the two, like on cars today (to dehumidify before entering the passenger compartment). The three "middle vents", being the two round ones at either side of the dash, and the rectangular one in the middle, above the transmission hump, will only have air coming out when the controls are set for "vent" or "air conditioning".

Any time you want heat, you only have the option of warm air coming out of the defrost vents near the windshield, or out of the floor vents from the heater box near the passenger and drivers feet, and the outlets under the front seat (for the rear passengers). This warm air can be only be divided between the defrost and floor vents.

The levers in the heater controls are connected to cables that change the temperature and direction of the air. The "warmer" lever moves a cable that opens the hot water valve, and allows more or less hot water into the heater core.

I think that it is the "defrost/de ice lever that you want to investigate. When you move that lever, it pulls a cable that moves a flat door/arm inside the heater box. At the "Heat" location, it directs the warm air out through the footwell area - those little vent holes and larger openings in the heater box at your toe level. As you move the lever toward "defrost", the cable moves the door/arm to direct more warm air upward to the windshield.

If you only have warm air going to the windshield, and not out at toe level, then check the movement of the cable and the door inside the heater box. If the Defrost lever and cable are difficult to move, then it may be stuck in only the defrost mode. If it moves too easily, it may be disconnected or even broken. It also may be out of adjustment. Check into these possibilities.

Overall, if you can get warm air from defrost or toe level, but not out of the central AC vents, that is proper and normal operation. If you only get warm air at defrost level, and not toelevel, then someting is not working correctly and should be checked.

If you do not get warm air out of the three middle level vent openings, but do get either regular vent or cool AC air, that is also proper operation.

And your English is perfectly fine, and needs no apology.

Please write if you have any further questions. You can also contact me by direct email, or phone call if you like.

Best wishes on your project.

Your friend in fins,

Jim
Jim Eccleston
1961 Coupe de Ville
BATILAC
Senior Crown
DeCou Driving Award x 4

Ludoviksken

Thank u very much Jim, i will check this asap. Really kind of you to explain it so detailed. I didn't knew there were vents under the seats.
But now i know that there only should be coming cold air out of the dash vents.

Have a great day.

Greetings,
Nathan

quadfins

Jim Eccleston
1961 Coupe de Ville
BATILAC
Senior Crown
DeCou Driving Award x 4