CARTER AFB

[ARMOND]

I HAVE 1959 SEDAN DEVILL 4D WITH CARTER AFB 4 BRL CARB. I WOULD LIKE TO UPGRADE THE CARB TO EDELBROCK. BUT I DO NOT KNOW THE CFM ON MY CARTER. I AM GUESSING 600 TO 750 CFM.

[Porter 21919]

The Edelbrock squarebore is a Carter AFB, the linkage wont work though without adaptation.

You are better off rebuilding your Carter AFB.

My 66 429 Carter AFB I believe is a 750 CFM, just like a 472 Rochester.

[Steve Cole #22466]

I have the 600 cfm Performer on my 1961 390 engine. It has worked flawlessly for me but Porter does correctly point out that some minor work has to be done to get it to work with your engine.

The biggest issue for me was that I had to create a little bracket for the throttle or TV rod (forget which one). Im currently finishing up design for a new bracket which will look more integrated and original.

Another thing to be mindful of is that the Edelbrock uses a 5 1/8 diameter air filter housing whereas your old carter has a 4 1/2. So- once you replace the carb, youll either have to modify your original air filter housing or replace it with a new version. Im also working on a modifying an original air cleaner that I bought off eBay to work with the Edelbrock..

Steve

[Porter 21919]

Steve,

Nothing beats a new carburetor at a decent price, considering what a good rebuilder charges.

The Edelbrock can be modified to work on a Cadillac as you well know, shame they only build them for Chevy engines, often wondered if the factory Cadillac Carter carb linkage parts couldnt just be adapted to the new Edelbrock.

Im not surprised your 390 is a 600 CFM, they do list a carb for my 66 429 but I think they note that linkage modifications are required, when all is said done you can still get all the rebuild parts for a Carter AFB, the Edelbrock squarebore is a Carter knockoff carb, I think they bought the company out or the rights to the design. So in the end you will end up with the same results. Some carb cores are just not rebuildable, worn out and tired, warped, butchered, etc.

In reverse of your point I found an adapter from Jegs that will allow a 5 1/4 air breather to be mounted on a Carter 4 1/8 ? which I intend to get for my 66 429 Carter, let the engine breath with an open air cleaner.

To quote one of my buddies  the Carter carb is idiot proof , I rebuilt mine easily.

Now to tackle my 67 Rochester carb, more complicated but more sophisticated and better performance Ive been told.

Porter

[Fred Garfield 22310]

Suggest you give Summit Racing a call. Theyre online and have an 800 number you can call. I believe their Edelbrock 1406 and 1407 are about $250 and rated at 600 cfm. Either one should fit your 390 without an adapter. Porters right -- Edelbrock bought the rights to the Carter designs. Youll probably have to cannabalize your AFB for the plate that attaches the kickdown linkage to the carb.

Re the air cleaner -- since youre not concerned with keeping things original, why not get an Edelbrock open air cleaner/filter from Summit? Theyre a lot prettier than the existing cleaner, obviously wont require a special adapter, cost about $50 and probably wont hurt performance.

[Fred Garfield 22310]

Just went to Summit.

The 1406 is 600 cfm, now costs $265 but has an electric choke.

The 1407 is 750 cfm, costs $246 and has a manual choke.

Id get the 1406 but then thats just me. With either one, you will have to pull the kickdown plate off your AFB, unless you think of something I havent considered.

The Edelbrock cleaner is still $50, comes with the filter and is drop dead gorgeous.

Summits number is 1-800-230-3030

Whichever way you go, good luck!

[Fred Garfield 22310]

The Edelbrock cleaner is #EDL-4207

[Porter 21919]

That was my point Fred, always wondered if you couldnt use the throttle plate and or associated parts from an old Carter carb on a new Edelbrock.

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/carbs_acc/carbs_access_main.shtml TARGET=_blank>http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/carbs_acc/carbs_access_main.shtml

Click on the application chart.

The 600 cfm 1406 would be adequate for a 390 engine IMO.

[bill henry]

personally i would rebiuld the carter takes 3-4 hours and the kits are readily available. then you know you have the right metering rods and jets for your engine . with an off the shelf carb you may be in for a lot of teardown and tuning to get it just right.

[Porter 21919]

Bill,

I rebuilt my 66 429 Carter AFB, quite an adventure, I was amazed that the car even ran with the mal-adjusted float level and float drop, etc. The rebuild started with a stuck needle and seat and the engine would flood occassionally.

I have a gallon of carb soak from Napa and took my time, soaked the halves overnight, blew out all the passages, etc.

The best rebuild kit is from the http://www.thecarburetorshop.com TARGET=_blank>www.thecarburetorshop.com , they give you the metering jets and idle screws, and the pump check ball valve, around $ 50.

The cheapo Napa kit for $ 25 doesnt come with those items, only gaskets, accelerator pump and needle and seats.

Rebuilt a 2bbl carb for my buddies Ford 330 truck engine, piece of cake, runs great.

I have a few pictures of my carb rebuild in my photo album at Stampies http://www.modifiedcadillac.org/ TARGET=_blank>http://www.modifiedcadillac.org/

John Washburn turned me on the carb shop, he is a close personal friend of mine. Helluva nice guy, very knowledgeable with these old Cadillacs.

I have heard rebuild shops get $ 250 or more for a 4 bbl Rochester, that includes new cadmium plating, all like brand new, flow bench tested, etc. etc. The Carter is just bare pot metal but those chrome plated Edelbrocks are slick, youll lose points with the judges though, LOL

You can reach John on his shoe phone out in his garage.

Porter

[ARMOND]

Thanks for the response to my problem. My car is original stock and my carb has been rebuilt a couple of times with by pros but I am still having a problem and it seems to be the body is warped or worn out. I would love to stick to orginal carb and buy a remaufactured carter but what are the chances i would get a decent carb. Because for the same price i could modify with the edelbrock (with some modification problems) i am handy and do have access to machine shop) Thanks for all the suggestions phone numbers and contacts. it is very helpful and ill keep you posted. If you think of any thing else let me know, too.
Armond

[bill henry]

porter you are right it is always best to get the complete kit .they do need to soak quiete awhile. there is a good book on rebuilding rochesters but dont know the author right offhand . ive heard JETdoes a good rochester rebuild

[Fred Garfield 22310]

Your concerns about aftermarket carburation are certainly valid. But I do have direct experience with these Edlebrocks in old Cadillacs. They work just fine without repeat teardowns or other nightmares. And IMHO theyre better than the AFB. What it comes down to is personal preference, but (again, just my informed opinion) the Edelbrock with open cleaner will enhance performance over the long haul.

[Porter 21919]

Fred,

You see the Edelbrock carbs on old Cadillac engines all the time, at any rate the factory air cleaner is very restrictive of air flow, no surprise my 66 SBC Vette had a factory open air breather.

A Cadillac engine will have better performance with an open air breather filter, likewise.

Not as if old Carter carbs are flying off the shelves these days at the parts store, at least there is a viable option.

Porter

[Fred Garfield 22310]

Exactly so.

[Mike #19861]

 Yes, these factory air claener assemblies are very restricive. This was to keep the intake howl to a minimum, or non existant.

 Al Betger at MTS flow tested an early 70s 472 air cleaner and found it to allow only 380 cfm. Far blow what any 472 needs at WOT. This is even very restrictive for a 390.

 With a true open element air cleaner, you will notice a power increase at WOT at higher RPMs. And, this is an easy modification and easily returned to original for the judges, if you are so inclined.

 Mike

[Doug Scarrow CLC # 22309]

I found this and posted on  the CML site a few years ago
  In searching the web I found the following info re: Carter AFB carbs This tells me that my 1962 AFB would be 575 cfm.

To determine Carter AFB carb flow, measure the butterfly bores and use the table below:  

CFM       Venturi Diameter            Bore Diameter
        primary    secondary       primary   secondary
--------------------------------------------------------
400     1 1/8       1 1/4          1 7/16      1 7/16
500     1 3/16      1 1/4          1 7/16      1 11/16
575     1 3/16      1 9/16         1 7/16      1 11/16
625     1 1/4       1 9/16         1 7/16      1 11/16
750     1 7/16      1 9/16         1 11/16     1 11/16

 

9000 Series AFB Code Deciphering

Base part number is 9000 and the last three digits refer to flow rating. For example, 9625 is a
625 CFM AFB carb. Adding 0, 9625 means it was set up for a Chevy style linkage, adding 1, 9626,
means it is a 625 for a Chrysler, adding 2, 9627, means it is for Ford; adding 10, 9635, means
provision for EGR.

If the carb is an aftermarket version, it will have a 9xxx cast in the front near where the
mounting stud goes through.