1967 Calais AC conversion

[john baker #22559]

I would like to convert the AC on my 1967 Calais to use the less expensive Freon. Any suggestions on sources of information and parts would be much appreciated.
John

[denise 20352]

  If youre talking about R134, it just hit $13 a can at the local parts store, and I expect that it will soon be has hard to find as a pair of split crotch panties in a convent.  Theyre doing the same thing that they did to us with Freon (which is the brand name for Refrigerant R-12).  The cost of refrigerant isnt going to be a factor in an air conditioner repair for much longer, unless you bought several flats when it was $2.58 a can at Wal-mart.

  Is the system working?  If so, I would recommend that you leave it alone.  There was a time when you could fix a slow leak by dumping in more refrigerant, but its not going to be practical to do that, even with R134.  Global warming has become such a problem now that our use of greenhouse gases has even  managed to raise the temperatures on Mars and Venus.

  Wait, that doesnt make sense, does it?  To me, either.  Not that Im one to make fun of junk science, but uh...back to the subject at hand.

  The funny thing about air conditioners is that, to fix one properly, you have to replace just about everything in the system.  If it has been leaking for a while, its all filled up with gunk oil, so you have to flush out the lines, evap and condensor, replace the expansion valve or accumulator and  orifice tube, and of course any time you open the system of anything, you have to replace the drier, because its like a Band-Aid...worthless once the package is opened.  And your hoses are probably shot, and for R134, you want barrier hose, so you have to have new hoses made up.  The compressor...if youre going to use ester oil, you can reuse it, but if youre going to use PAG, which is what theyre all recommending now, you would have to get every trace of mineral oil out, and a rebuilt compressor is only $150 anyway, so might as well replace it too.

   Is that discouraging?  Au contraire!  Its enouraging, because once you realize that your air conditioning costs a million dollars to repair regardless of what is wrong with it, you can ignore all of the warnings that you might hear about using death kits to convert to R134 and destroying your compressor and contaminating the whole system.  So what?  If you can buy a $25 kit, dump ester oil and R134 in there, and make it last two or three more years (and they do), why not do it today and enjoy some cold air?

    I do air conditioning work properly these days, because I know just how much fun it is to have your AC break down when youre out of town and have somebody charge you a million dollars and still not fix it properly, but....I have done some halfa$$ jobs over the years that have held up very well.  My 92 truck, for instance...the compressor was noisy about four years ago, so I replaced it, didnt bother replacing anything else in the system, didnt evacuate it, and it still blows icy cold.  Of course I am in the desert, and the relative humidity was 10percent, and so there really wasnt all that much water that could get into the system.  Dont try it in Florida.  Anyway, maybe it will fail in a year, or two, or five, but I spend $200 instead of $500-700.

    Whats my point?  I dunno, Ive already forgotten.

-denise

[john baker # 22559]

Hi Denise,
Thanks for the insight. I have replaced the master vacuum switch and power servo. The different modes work now. However there is no cold air on the AC modes. My guess is that the freon is long gone, and the compressor is questionable. I live in North Carolina, and the heat and humidity is difficult to tolerate without ac. I will replace whatever is necessary to get ac back. Could you send me the name of a supplier that could provide me with the parts that I would need? If you have a laundry list of parts that would have to be replaced in this process, that would be great.

Regards,
Jack

[denise 20352]

  Contact the guy at ackits.com.  He was really helpful to me once, and Ive used his forum at http://www.aircondition.com TARGET=_blank>www.aircondition.com

-denise

[john baker #22559]

Thanks Denise.
I better get my check book warmed up.
Regards,
John

[Andrew 10638]

This is one of the best posts Ive read, funny and true!!

[John Baker]

Hi Andrew,
As they say. you cant take it with you.
Regards,
Jack

[john baker #22559]

Hi Again Denise,
I have decided to keep the R12 system in the car. That is what it was designed to use. Thanks again for the feedback.
Regards,
Jack

[denise]

  On my way home from work last night, I decided to go to wal-mart and see how much R134 was selling for.  Just as I was turning in to the parking lot, I heard a hose go SPIZZH!  The stuff is selling for $8 a can now, so I laid down $200 for 24 more cans.  I can say goodbye to four of them after I have a new hose made up.

  This was a vehicle that I had fixed properly, but when I was running the car with the A/C compressor set to the side last weekend, I think I accidentally rubbed a hole in the hose with the alternator belt.

  What does this all prove?  That you cant win, no matter what you do.  The pleasure of air conditioning is always equal to the suffering that you go through to keep it working.

-denise

[denise]

  Good idea.  It will probably work better that way.

[Ed Dougher]

Hey, John, which part of NC are you in?  I live near Raleigh, and I also have a 67 (convertible).

Id be interested in what your system was doing, and what you had to do to get it working properly.

I bought my car in 1995.  At that time, I had the system charged with R-12, and it did blow cold air.  The problem, as it existed then, was that the AC would stay on until the car got cool, then the blower would go off and not come back on.  To get it back on, youd have to slide the lever over to Ice for a few seconds, and then come back to the automatic setting.

I just havent used the air in the car at all.  It wont blow cold anymore, although the compressor will switch on, so it does need a charge.  Sometimes the blower wont come on, either.  

Power servo?  Master vaccuum switch?  Does that behavior ring any bells?

Thanks,
Ed

[Johnny #662]

Any thoughts about using Freeze 12?  My 85 Eldo has lost freon about every 7 years since I got it.  I used to just get it charged with freon.  With the price of freon being what it is, I am going to try Freeze 12.  I was told by the shop, that it is just one molecule different then freon, and in ways is better!

[john baker # 22559]

Hi Ed,
I live in Charlotte. I have owned my Calais 4-door (pillar) for 15 years. The ac never did function correctly. On top of that, the voltage regulator malfunctioned, frying my battery (i.e. BOOM). Some of the ac components might have been effected.
I vowed to get the ac operational. In your case, I would guess that the power servo might be suspect. I replaced the master vacum switch, and it seemed to operate ok. However, I could not activate the various modes (defrost, etc.)by moving the lever. I replaced the power servo, and the modes changed when I moved the lever. In my case, I am going to stay with R-12. You and I own a car that is almost 40 years old. It was designed to use R-12, so I will stay the course even though the prices for R-12 are terribly expensive. I will keep you posted on my progress.
Regards,
John

[denise]

  Ive never tried it, but some people have been really ecstatic about it.

[john baker]

Hi John,
Thanks for the suggestion. I will look into it.
Regards
Jack

[Ed Dougher]

Thanks!  Im also going to keep the 67 R-12.  That said, I did go to R-134 in my 79 several years ago, and it still blows ice cubes.

[Viator Trudeau #8697]

Re: 134A coolent, check the price at a Sams Club Store, case price is lower last week than last summer.

[Rhino 21150]

If you live anywhere near Greensboro, contact Tim Falls at Personal Touch Auto Body. He converted my Cavalier to the new junk for $168 including refrigerant. Works just fine! And Cavaliers are notorious for having $percent^&*&* A/C. Tell him Rhino Guy sent you. 336-274-6456

[Dave MacGregor #18998]

I tried once to have my 1977 Eldorado professionally converted to R134a by a Goodwrench Mechanic friend of mine at a dealership and the car never really got cold enough for me to call it comfortable inside.  It held the coolant well and I had it that way for almost two seasons, but finally gave up and had it reconverted back to R12 which the system was orginally designed for.  The car has blown ice cold air ever since and thats been over six years ago now.

I think some AC systems when converted is just like taking a stab in the dark at true success or not.  I also wouldnt consider mine was a failure either because I could have lived with it, but it wasnt quite what I wanted.  Thats why I went back.

OH!  Ironically the reconversion back to R12 was less than going to R134a for me.  Had a special supply of it that I was accumulating for the big day.  Most of the money was spent on flushing out and testing the system, etc.

Later!

Dave

[denise 20352]

   I did my 78 Deville, and was happy with it in the Tucson summers.  Did they have the acc/drier system, with the big can on the firewall, or were they still using the VIR system in 77?  Although it is acceptable, Im not as happy with the 76 with VIR than I was with the 78.  It cools fine in cruise, but warms up a bit at idle.  Maybe I need a pusher fan.

   Before I did my conversion on the 78, I flushed the evap and condensor thouroughly, replaced the acc and orifice tube and hoses, compressor, and the works.  The biggest problem I run across in the older cars is the orange gunk that builds up, congealed oil, I think.  I see it in my Chrysler as well...it was slugging badly last year, and now that Im having the hoses redone, Im going to flush it out, replace the exp valve and drier, and Im going to see if that fixes the problem.

-d