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GN Thoughts & Future Memberships

Started by Bill Burton #19057, June 19, 2006, 04:03:41 AM

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Bill Burton #19057

As I didnt get registration for my car in, I didnt show at the GN this year.  No big deal.  But as I walked and talked around the venue, I began to form some thoughts.  Those who disagree may feel completely free to jump in, and Im sure there will be some.  

I was amazed at the quality of the cars.  The time and effort put into virtually all of them is tremendous.  But, what I see  that the closer to the current time we get, the fewer there are.  While to some extent this can be explained by nostalgia, remembering what my dad drove and what impressed me in the past, we have to remember that on one or two years of modern production, there are as many cars as were ever made into the sixties and seventies.  Please dont start trotting out numbers, thats not the point of my comments.  What Im getting at is that, as important as holding and preserving the older marques is, if our club is to grow in out years, we must be more energetic in making a place for more modern years and models.  There should be a larger and growing number of members with newer cars in competition, not fewer.  Im not an expert in how to do this, but I see handfuls of younger folks who are willing to put out time and effort on the earlier years.  They cant be SAFELY driven over longer distances.  They cost a lot to maintain.  There is an increasingly limited pool of resources to draw on for parts, complete cars and other needed materials and support. This will become more acute in future, not less so.
1975 was a watershed year in the world of cars.  With the introduction of fuel efficiency and pollution controls, the whole world of cars changed forever.  The modified, hotrod, street rod, industry has rather successfully stepped around this by recognizeing that with the disappearance of auto yards and shop classes, the new wave is a (to coin a phrase here) "simile" rod or, as they also known, replicar.  The sheet metal is old style or exact replica, put on a modern, up to date, completely roadable chassis.  A car that can be restored is and should be, but one that has gone past the point of reasonable recollection can be used to put a modernized car on the road and be judged for its appearance, workmanship and style.  I fear that if something like that isnt done for our marque, we are an endangered species, simply because all the old cars will be sucked up into museums to be looked at longingly or be trucked to and fro from one meet to another to be rolled out, judged, pointed, rolled back in, taken back to have more money poured into it, to be rolled back out at the next meet.
Proposal:  How about setting up a class for "Modern" years.  I realize that there is a rolling annual criteria used and that there is now recognition of modified Cadillacs.  This would be a new range of competition.  It would have the same sort of standards, recognizing the legal restraints on modifiying engines for pollution and other legal controls, but allow a newer car to be brought out more. It may simply may mean that we give more attention in our efforts to bring in owners of newer cars who can appreciate Cadillacs and want to become more involved with the historical side of the brand.  
I am not trying to displace or disparage the incredible cars I saw over this past weekend.  If anyone knows me, it is that I love cars that have years between manufacture and now.  I am simply exploring ideas to bring in members to what is a club I see needing new blood to make it grow and adapt.  Ill shut up and let the blasting begin.  Correct me and come up with better ideas.  Best wishes.  Bill Burton

Bruce Reynolds # 18992

Gday Bill,

I think everyone will appreciate your insight and comments.

Personally, when I attended the 02 GN, I was also surprised at the lack of "later models" in the field, and the fact that the "later models" were sort of placed "out of the way" and one had to really go looking for them, whereas the earlier years took the "best" part of the car park.   Some will say, "as it should be", but I realise that every vehicle cannot be placed in one spot when there isnt the room to safely do it.

I appreciate All years, but the perceived problem with the newer cars is that they all start to look exactly the same.   All vehicles up to say 1960 had a character that showed the individualism of their designers and the introduction of two-tones, really made the automobile stand out.   Now days, everyone has to have an ornament on their radio aerials so they can find them in the supermatket car parks.  

It is a sad state of affairs that the modern child can only remember that his or her grand parents drove 70s barge, and their parents owned a 90s car.   And, we all know that the cars of the 90s ALL looked the same.   Whereas the older CLC Member can vividly remember fond memories of being in a 30s, 40s, 50s and 60,s vehicle and therefore strive to get one for themselves.

As you say, the lack of Auto Shop in schools that work on "old" cars, and the introduction of a fast and furious life where both parents have to work to pay for a mortgage on an apartment with no "tinkering" space called a Garage.   Plus the constraints of Body Corporate living, it is no wonder that the buy-it-now-complete "replicar" that doesnt take years to get from the initial part purchase to the driving stage.

Then, there is the Market that dictates the cost of purchasing an older car.   The cost of educating oneself must take precedence, and one simply cannot afford to pay a Bankers Yearly Salary in order to buy a complete old car.   The older person that needs to sell his or her car to fund theie retirement wants to get the most, and I cannot begrudge them that.

I would hate to be trying to buy and make a car or cars like I did in my younger days.

Okay, I too have rambled on for too long and will now leave some space for others to add.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV
President/Director of the Modified Chapter of the C&LC (proposed)

P.S.   I forsee that modified cars presence will be greater in the future as the younger members will want the convenience of up to date driving in an older style body, with the ability to own just one vehicle.  The old Drivetrains are good.   The bodies are good, but the handling and stopping performance leaves a lot to be desired when travelling in traffic when everyone else has 4 wheel disk brakes and performance tyres, and everyone wants to get where they are going at the same time.

Randall A. McGrew CLC # 17693

I know this is a terrible thought, but given all of the reason laid out above as to the change in interest, material availability and shrinking monetary means, it may be... may be, I repeat ... that this hobby is simply meant to fade with the memories of when cars were integral to a growing country.  All things change, and with the change of time comes the change in interest, focus and means.  Perhaps younger people are getting into older cars through hotrodding and modification.  There will always be people into antique cars, I suspect, but those grass roots clubs will shrink and stay pretty close to home.  There are so many things against the older models that I doubt they will be allowed on the road past 2015.

Reality will eventually interject itself no matter what we do to keep it at bay.  You cannot fight time and "progress".  All you can do is enjoy them while you got them!

Johnny #662

It has been my opinion that for quite some time now, that the antique hobbys is slowly fading away, because of all the reasons previously stated.  Quite simply, cars today do not hold the same interest, generally speaking, as they did for us that grew up in the past.  Sure young people want cars, actually more and more want trucks, that have some style and looks, but basically they want something that takes them where they want to go.  To them getting there is more important, then how they get there.

Lou CLC 19028

The end is NOT in sight guys. Dont jump :)
In regards to the GN attendance of "newer cars" and younger members, I have seen photos from this years GN and there was a fair amount of newer cars photographed. Younger members is another issue. Scheduling GNs while school is still in session through out the country will/would have a major impact on younger members(with kids)attending these events. Good news, I have corresponded with the president of the CLC Bill Edmonds in regards to this matter and he assured me that the club is sensitive to the matter and will do there best to Schedule GNs accordingly...........
Now as far as the cars themselves go, Cadillac IMO hasnt produced many interesting cars between 1975 and 1995(give or take a year). So there will be a lull in our club BUT Cadillac has made some big strides lately. The XLR,Devilles,STS with the Northstar engine and now the V series. Oh yeah dont forget the SUVs. Yes folks there will have to be an SUV class! There are huge web groups for newer Cadillacs all over the web. They will come in time........
Now before the nay sayers start posting "whos gonna want to work on these cars! All of the  computer this and computer that!! " We must remember the Next generation does not know life without a computer. They will be a lot more comfortable working on a computer controlled car as apposed to points and condensers. LOL

.        

Craig Chally

OK, I suppose Ill toss my hat in.  Its true that collecting older cars (or older anything, for that matter), is on the decline, but those that have the inclination are still out there, and there are still many of them coming up.  The foregoing comments about SUVs, computer-controlled cars, and the newer Cadillac models are right on.  

HOWEVER....all this bashing of the cars of the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s must stop.  Now.  You cant have a club that "recognizes all years" of Cadillacs and then turn right around and disparage 30 years of Cadillac production.  Were these the greatest cars ever made?  Not by a long shot.  Are they the cars that many younger guys, myself included, start out with and are what first attracted us to the marque?  Yep.  For proof, go see cadillacforums.com, specifically, the forums dedicated to the 1996 and earlier RWD cars and the 1985-2005 FWD C-cars.  Youll find scores of guys (and gals) in their teens, twenties, and thirties who adore these cars and are every bit as passionate about them as older collectors are about the cars of the 1960s and before.  Its not that we dont know any different, as we have a deep appreciation for the older models.  Ask them and youll see.  But like Bruce said, at our stage of life, they are out of our financial league.  Would I love to have a 1958 Sixty Special for my very own self to cherish (black, please, with light grey broadcloth interior)?  Hell yes!  Do I have the money or space?  Not now!  So, I content myself with my 1977 Coupe de Ville.  Is she perfect?  Nope, and thats OK, because shes not meant to be perfect, but driven and enjoyed as God and GM intended.

You want to increase membership among the younger demographics?  Start by acknowledging our cars in a positive tone, just as we have the courtesy of doing for yours.  Make those cars of the 70s, 80s, and 90s not just allowed but sincerely welcomed onto the field.  And, accept that most people in my and subsequent generations will modify our cars to some extent, either out of preference or practicality.  Its reality, its the future, and the CLC needs to accept it.  Otherwise, the club will fade away, and that would be sad, as its a terriffic resource and has so much potential to do so much good for the hobby.

Ill stop running on at the mouth now.

Craig  

Randall A. McGrew CLC # 17693

That is true, Craig.  Time waits for no one.  And modern Cadillacs were once but dreams in the designers minds while our beloved cars of the past were parked outside the A&P, running errands and going on trips.  The mantra of the present is get a grip, and get over it."  The CLC did add a Modified Chapter, which I think is a first for an major international club.

So while we build our bridge to cover our tears, you might suggest a modern chapter to the CLC National.  That is how Stampie got the Modified going.  If what you say is true, you should have plenty of bodies and cars to make up a membership!

And you and the others who do modify are always welcome at the Modified Chapter.  I think you will find most of us are less inclined to be biased.  Most of it is just taste based on nostalgia anyway.  No reason to take offense.  Happy Motoring!!

Johnny #662

I havent really noticed any real "bashing" of certain years of Cadillacs, just some opinions and preferences.  Myself I found Cadillacs in general to be "interesting" up until 1985. With the introduction of the 85 deVille series of downsized models, my interest also started go downsize.  I believe at this point, Cadillacs ceased being what I thought a Cadillac should be.  In the early 90s they started to sort of "comeback" somewhat, but gone forever, to me, is what a Cadillac should be.  For me they lost their being special mystic, and really havent seen a model, that has really excited me......

Craig Chally

No offense taken.  I personally enjoy original cars and try to keep mine as stock as reasonable.  But, I dont begrudge those who want something more personalized.  It the libertarian in me. ;)

Craig

Bill Burton #19057

Ive been gratified to see the response to my original comments.  I also see that there are some folks that see what I believe I see.  We can never, ever, let go of the remarkable past that Cadillac has built.  The cars will forever be in a world that is past and gone, but for most, will be only seen from second or third removed experience.  While there are still some older cars out there waiting to be reclaimed and brought back, there are fewer all the time.  Many of those, as exemplified by the Nethercut collection, are preserved as works of art and effectively no longer available to the normal world of car enthusiasts.  Also, the parts to build, repair and upgrade are diminishing rapidly.  While we have reproduction manufacturers, the parts are expensive and a build is more and more controlled by the pocketbook, not by the ability to scrounge around used car yards.  That younger folks are not as enthused as we were, I wont make a judgement.  I will note that the possibliities for modification on a car are simply not as possible now as pre-1974-5.  The drivetrain is virtually locked in place without meeting the same pollution requirements while building or modifying the car in other forms.  That puts a huge lower standard to be overcome even before starting,in cost.  So I propose that we recognize that, and begin classes that move in the direction seen at car shows in other venues.  That process will be long and will take a while to accomplish.  We fortunately have some very bright leadership in place and in training by experience, so Im actually quite upbeat about the future.  I ask that those of you having interest in this aspect please continue to bring it forth on occasion, talk about the future of our hobby to any who will listen, and come up with ideas to move things along.  We are, after all, the ones who have impact by our participation.  Best wishes and keep the flame burning!  Bill Burton

Dan Fisher


Jim Snell #21544

Hello all,
As a collector of things 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s, I firmly believe that there is a hard-wired need for many men to buy back their childhood.... (This is primarily a man thing, but some women do it also) In his 30s and 40s, a typical male begins to long for the toy, the bicycle, the car that he had many years ago. Perhaps in childhood, perhaps in his early twenties.. Re-capture that little piece of youth long gone? I think this is part of mid-life for many if not the majority of men. If a man is lucky, he will have an understanding spouse, and can indulge this need if so desired. Many men make trades with their wives.. She gets a new house, he gets a collector car etc... Especially when the children are grown and leave the nest. If this is the worst the mans mid-life crisis gets, then count yourself lucky!

So, if this is true, then everything eventually becomes collectible. Typically at about 30 years of age, the specific item begins to be aggressively bought and sold as a collectible. Toys, cars, radios, bicycles, brochures, the list is endless...

For these reasons, I believe that the collector hobby is not doomed, it just evolves. The perfect example is the decline in value of the Ford model "A", and the increase in value of the 1960s "muscle car". There are few people remaining in the hobby who has a direct connection to the model "A" and millions of middle aged baby boomers who now have muscle car mania, and the cash to spend on this indulgence.. So, the value of the model A goes down, the muscle car value skyrockets. Just my two cents worth.
Best regards to all. Jim Snell