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1965 car: Pulling the harmonic balancer, whats the secret?

Started by Rob, June 08, 2006, 09:01:07 PM

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Rob

Hi,

I am trying to rebuild the engine on my 65 deVille convertible, and the shop-manual shows me how to get the harmonic balancer off in 3 easy steps, using the Tool.
I dont have the Tool, and cant seem to find one, so I tried a regular 3-arm gear-puller. I can get the balancer to come forward maybe 1/4 of an inch, but that is it. Now I am about to over-torque the (made-in-China) gear puller, so that isnt going anywhere.

What is the secret here? On my 53 fleetwood the thing came off with the chinese gear puller, it wasnt easy but went alright. Does anyone know of an authentic Tool (removal/installation set) that I can rent, lease or buy?

Thanks,

RK

Bruce Reynolds # 18992

Gday Rob,

When removing a Harmonic Balancer, the correct type of puller must be used.

That is one that attaches to the bolt holes that are around the central hole.

One MUSTNT attempt to use a puller that grips the balancer by the outer ring as it will destroy the balancer as it pulls and disturbs the rubber ring.   There is nothing worse than a balancer flying apart.   If the outer ring has started to move on the centre hub, then it must be replaced with an undamaged one.

Sometimes the Balancers are hard to remove and require a bit of pressure on the main puller thread.

A word of advice though is to re-install the main holding bolt without the washer so that the puller thread doesnt damage the crankshaft thread if there is one there.   I am not sure if there is a main retaining bolt, or the balancer is simply a press fit.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

art woody

If you have AUTOZONE stores in your area, they will rent the tool you need for the price of the tool, then refund full amount upon return, costing you nothing. ADVANCED AUTO PARTS may have same loaner deal, but not sure.

Rob

Alright, I guess Im now out shopping for a new balancer and Ill get the tool from the local autozone guys (thanks Art). Im just amazed at how tight this thing is (there was no retainer bolt) and started wondering if there was something behind the front housing that was holding it in. The manual doesnt say so, but it also says its a straightforward removal job...

Thanks so much, at least I know what I am supposed to do next.

RK

Bruce Reynolds # 18992

Rob,

If there is no retaining bolt to secure it in place, then it has to be a really tight fit of the crankshaft snout.

When you install the new one, you will definately have to have the correct replacement tool, otherwise you run the risk of the balancer outer ring moving as you drive the hub back on.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

Rhino 21150

Take your manual so they can see what the tool looks like, to the local parts shop, the one you plan to buy your stuff from, and see if they can rent/loan you one. Then try the rental shops. Or buy an American puller from Sears. Thats gonna cost you...
Have you sprayed the balancer with anything like Liquid Wrench, not WD-40? Tried a little heat on the balancer?

Geoff Newcombe #4719

DO   NOT   PUT   HEAT  ON   THE    BALANCER !!!

joe g 12138

Been there done that! On a 429, the balancer is installed by using a Bolt with a washer under the bolt head which threads into the tapped hole in the center of the crankshaft. This pulls the balacer in until it bottoms. Then the bolt is removed. The shop manual references this bolt to the 1962 shop manual; it must have been the last year this bolt was intended to be left in.
   The harmonic balacer is then only held in place by a keyway to prevent rotation on the shaft.....and plain old friction. (And now Rust too?). It CAN be removed without special tools though. The others were right in saying NO HEAT and DONT PULL FROM THE OUTER EDGE.If the rubber gets ruined.....itll cost you!!!
   You can make your own puller by getting a piece of flat stock, the thicker the better,( 3/8-1/2) and drilling holes to match pattern and size of the center hub. Get same size grade 8 machine screws that are used to secure pulley to crank, only longer. Now stack washers or spacers on crank snout, beyond level of hub face. Hold in place with tape or RTV or grease. Bolt flat stock plate over the stack of washers. Tighten machine screws in alternating pattern, a little at a time. Keep well juiced with penetrating oil at all times. If it doesnt cooperate, tap with hammer now and then. retighten. When it does move, it may be necessary to add more washers or spacers to get more. If it doesnt cooperate, its better to walk away or go to bed than strip out threads in balancer.Sometimes theyll let go during the night with a bang!  Good luck!!!

Rhino 21150

I have in my toolbox a very old cheap steering wheel puller. It is a flat disk of steel, about five inches across and half an inch thick. It is punched with several slots and tapped in the center for a 1/2 X 20 bolt. It comes with a selection of bolts that fit the slots. I think they still make these. I used it to pull the balancer on my Olds R350 engine. I snugged it down and waited. It popped fifteen minutes later. Made a scary noise! You might find one at an older car parts store.

Rob

Thanks to all: it came off. It took a prehistoric-looking puller but it came off. The first puller from autozone cracked the plate part, the second one stripped the hole in the plate, so I made my own from 1 stock and a fine-thread 3/4 bolt. It needed all 6 wheel-bolts but it worked.

Now that its off, where do I get a new one that will fit with normal tightness? I dont want to try putting it back, I think it will strip the threads inside the shaft.

Anyway, thanks again for the advice,

RK

Rob

Thanks to all: it came off. It took a prehistoric-looking puller but it came off. The first puller from autozone cracked the plate part, the second one stripped the hole in the plate, so I made my own from 1 stock and a fine-thread 3/4 bolt. It needed all 6 wheel-bolts but it worked.

Now that its finally off, where do I get a new one that will fit with normal tightness? I dont want to try putting it back, I think it will strip the threads inside the shaft.

Anyway, thanks again for the advice,

RK

Bruce Reynolds # 18992

The secret to getting the new one back on is to get yourself a long threaded bolt that fits in the crankshaft snout threaded hole and a nut and a series of large washers but a piece of stock steel will do.

Place the nut down the thread of the bolt, then the large aforementioned washer/steel plate, place the Balancer onot the crankshaft, lining it up with the keyway, insert the aforementioned bolt assemble into the aforementioned hole and thread all the way down.   Then simply, use the nut as the pressure applicator and wind the balancer all the way home.

Make sure that the nut and washer is oiled so it cant gall up.

After this is completed, then get a shorter bolt and washer, and secure the balancer in place and leave it there.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

Vinny

I had problems with my 66 429 harmonic Balancer.  It came off with a steering wheel/harmonic balancer puller that I had.  After a little elbow grease it popped right off.  This was from an engine that sat for 10 years.  To install it, I rented a harmonic balancer installer from Autozone.  I used the 9/16-18 thread bolt and it slid right on after the third try!  A little trial and error but it all worked.

Rhino 21150

As I recall I had to put the balancer back on with a carefully cut 2 X 6 to protect the radiator and a Nissan screw type jack to push it on.

Bruce Reynolds # 18992

Rhino,

The problem doing it your way is that you are applying unintended pressure, longditudonaly on the crankshaft and applying excessive pressure to the thrust surface on the rear main bearing.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV.

joe g 12138

Clean up the inside and outside of balancer hub with scothcbrite pad also clean crank snout. grease all parts well. Use bolt and washer to thread into crank end. This will pull the damper in till it bottoms. WATCH OUT when you reinstall the pulley to the balancer on a 429!!!! The holes are not laid out in a uniform symetrical pattern! It ONLY fits one way! Otherwise a bent pully or later loosening can occur.

Rhino 21150

I wound up applying very little pressure, but in the confined space it was the only way to apply ANY pressure. Plus Nissan makes a cheap light jack that not only fits tight spots but it has a removeable bracket on the top allowing you to substitute whatever works. And you can use a ratchet wrench to turn it if the handle wont go where you need it.