Did Holden build Aussie Cads?

[Jack]

Hi Bruce,

Just spent some time at the CLC Aussie site looking at all those beautiful Cads !

I began to wonder if Aussie Cads (RHD) were really built by Holden or were shipped from Warren (Detroit) ?

How did this all work ?

Thanks, Bruce.

Jack

[Bruce Reynolds # 18992]

Hi Jack,

Yes, I have always wanted to say that, but in this day and age, it isnt politically correct, plus, one might just get shot.

Glad you liked what you saw.   There are a lot of wonderful cars "down-under" and some are even finding their way back Stateside.

Now, as far as I know, all the Cadillacs and LaSalles that came to Australia, via the Dealers, before WW2 came in as CKDs and whether they were from Canada or USA, that I am not quite sure.

But, all were fitted with Holden Bodies to Cadillac specifications from the top of the windscreen back.   Every body part was made here, including the doors, glass, and upholstery.   The drive-trains were totally Cadillac, and maybe the tyres and tubes were locally sourced.   Even the Chevrolet, Pontiac, Buick and Oldsmobiles came in as CKDd from Canada.   There is differences in the body shapes of those cars here, and we built Coupes and Convertibles that werent even available in USA, or any other part of the world for that matter.   And, all our GM cars, even the cheapest Chevrolet, had Real Leather interiors.   None of this cloth stuff.

You see, there were import restrictions imposed on any fully-imported, complete vehicles, and this was done to appease the local manufacturers so that employment could be maintained.

Holden Motor Body Builders even built Ford Model Ts up until Ford opened up their own plant here.   And, Holden didnt become General Motors Holden until General Motors decided that they needed a manufacturing facility as a stand-alone facility.   Up till then, they were building bodies for all brands of overseas manufacturers, but that is another story.

Now, all there vehicles were being built by the manufacturers in both LHD and RHD for export, but after WW2, everything changed.

Cadillacs were never built in RHD form, whereas Buick ended RHD in 1953, Oldsmobile in 1955 (I think) and Chevrolet and Pontiac in 1968.   But, from 1958 to 1968, the Pontiac was just a Chev in Pontiac clothing.   And, only the full sized cars.

Any Cadillac that was imported into Australia at the ceasing of hostilities, WW2 that is, was converted to RHD by a number of Converters that started up, solely to cover an industry that was in need of being established.

I believe the reason that Cadillac never made any RHD vehicles after 1946 was that why should they tool up for such a small run when they couldnt make enough vehicles in LHD form to satisfy their own local market in USA.

Now, I may be totally wrong, but hopefully not, otherwise I will have to go back to school.   If I have left anything out, I hope that some member will be able to add the corrections.

By the way, New Zealand is a different kettle of fish because as they had no Motor Manufacturing Industry, they imported vehicles directly from the places where they were manufactured.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

 

[John Tozer #7946]

Jack,

Just a footnote to Bruces offerings about Australian Cadillacs - Holden "built" Cadillacs in three years only - one car in each of 1930 and 1931 and 44 in 1937.

They also "built" La Salles in 1930 (one car), 1931 (one car) and continuously from 1936 to 1940 inclusive.

The "construction" of the 36 to 40 cars varied depending on the series of the cars:

The La Salles and 60 series were imported as factory RHD CKD chassis with front and rear fenders and a fire wall. This was done in the main after April 1936 to keep the landed cost of the chassis down - import duties were levied on this landed cost and for non-British Commonwealth sourced vehicles, they were pretty steep! There is some evidence collected by Matt Larson from the US Club that some La Salles were sent here with plywood firewall mock-ups and this was replaced when they arrived here with one from one of the Buick/Chev/Pontiac/Oldsmobile bodies that were in more general production here in those days. Holden used the body from the larger of these vehicles (Buick/Oldsmobile) and "grafted" the US CKD bits onto them. Most Holden bodies have what seems like half a ton of lead fill in them for this reason at the points where everyhing joined up!

The larger series Caddies (20 75 series delivered in 1937) were different. They came here almost complete in factory RHD CKD form - certainly all panels were supplied from the factory in the US. There were some wierd variations to this, again to keep the landed cost of the chassis down. The big series Holden Cadillacs came with no bumper bars, for example. They were made here and the over-riders, which at first glance look exactly the same as the US versions, are not stamped steel but cast bronze!

There were claims made for many years that Holden built Cadillacs in 1938 but nobody has ever seen one - all the 38s here are Fleetwoods and the Holden production figures probably refer to the last of the 37 CKDs being sold in 1938.

In addition to these cars, as Bruce suggests, there were privately imported RHD vehicles and most of these came from Canada (via what I believe was a very short boat ride from Detroit) so that they were, for import duty purposes "Commonwealth sourced", Canada being part of the British Commonwealth. I have seen these cars in factory RHD form and what has clearly been a RHD conversion (oxy torch applied to the front end to allow reversal of the steering gear!)

Some times we were sent some rare gems - like 6 of the 15 series 7513 Imperial sedans produced anywhere in the world in 1937. I have one and you can see its sister at:

http://www.awm.gov.au/database/collection.asp TARGET=_blank>http://www.awm.gov.au/database/collection.asp

if you Search the collection number "002598".

This car still exists as well as mine.

None of this relates, of course, to the large number of Cadillacs (including no small number of 57 Eldorados) imported here in recent years by passionate nutters like me and Bruce who can find a way to meet the costs of importing parts for them!

Hope this fills out your new knowledge of Caddies down under,


John Tozer

[Bruce Reynolds # 18992]

Thanks John,

Now, I do have to go back to school to remember all this.

Bruce,
The Tassie deville),
60 CDV (imported and converted in 1974)

[Jack]

WOW ! ! What a great history lesson !

Thank you Bruce and John !

I always wondered how Holden fit into the "Caddy World" down under. I was reviewing the Aussie CLC file on conversion and its complications. It must be a wonder that anybody would want to go through with it but theres always a healthy "nationalism" in this formula.

And why not . . . if I lived in a country with RHD I suspect I would do it too.

Again, thanks fellas for the great story about your Holden facility and its workings.

Jack

[Ty #22330]

Hello John: Cant find the 37 at the site given. Any special heading to use? Ty

[Bruce Reynolds # 18992]

Gday Ty,

Try this
http://cas.awm.gov.au/TST2/cst.acct_master?surl=1567146246ZZIOMFYZUFWC34013&stype=3&simplesearch=&v_umo=&v_product_id=&screen_name=&screen_parms=&screen_type=RIGHT&bvers=5&bplatform=Netscape&bos=Win32 TARGET=_blank>http://cas.awm.gov.au/TST2/cst.acct_master?surl=1567146246ZZIOMFYZUFWC34013&stype=3&simplesearch=&v_umo=&

It shows the car in use.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

[Rhino 21150]

http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/jsp/corporateinfo/history/history.jsp?link=historical TARGET=_blank>http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/jsp/corporateinfo/history/history.jsp?link=historical
http://www.myholden.com.au/history.php TARGET=_blank>http://www.myholden.com.au/history.php
http://www.ehholden.com.au/infhis2.htm TARGET=_blank>http://www.ehholden.com.au/infhis2.htm
Get yourself a cold one and start reading!

[T.L. Stinson]

Hello Bruce:
Thank you. But, now it says Search was Timed out. Tried several times with the same result. I must be doing something wrong. Ty

[Bruce Reynolds # 18992]

Thats okay, just hit the search again button, and put in the number that John said to, and up will come the picture

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

[Jack]

Yo Rhino

Thanks for all the Holden History !

 I now know more than many Aussies all about Holden !

Jack

[Ken Andersen #21420]

Just my 2 cents worth.

As far as Cadillacs go, my research indicates that Cadillacs were imported FULLY BUILT, and that lesser valued cars in the GM range were imported in CKD form.

At the time that my 1928 Cadillac 7 Seater was built in the USA, it came off the production line as a fully assemble RHD unit.  It arrived into Australia in December 1928. At that time, there were three Importers import GM cars fully built ex the USA.

The Holden Export Company who imported appr 119 fully built cars in 1928.  This organisation was totally seperate from what became known as GM Australia, but was swallowed up by GM eventually.

Lanes Motors who imported appr 35 fully built cars in 1928.
McGrath Motors who imported appr 2o fully built cars in 1928.

Subsequent to 1928, 1929 saw only appr 30 cars imported from the USA as fully built units.

1930 ,31 ,32 saw fewer and fewer with only a handfull of Cadillacs being imprt in any state during these years in total.

Then thats were Bruces story kicks in.

By the way, all the records from the old GM Export Coy, Lanes Motors and McGrath Motors are lost, never to be seen again.

The little snippets of information as recounted above were first published in one of the early issued of Restored Cars Magazine, a publication that as the name suggests,deals with restored cars. It was again published a few years back. I will endeavour to find the issue and include the entire article subject to approval from the copyright holder in the near future.

[Ty #22330]

Thanks Bruce: Hey, thats my car! Ty

[John Tozer #7946]

Ken,

I assume your comments in relation to the fully built cars relates to those of the era of your car (late 20s).

Matt Larsons research of the build sheets in Detroit for me definitely confirms CKD chassis for 36, 37 and 38 Cadillacs and La Salles.


Regards,



John Tozer

[Mark Hewitt]

Many years ago I did own a 1937 60 series sedan which had a Holden Body
The Australian War time Prime Minister Ben Chifley had a 1940s Cadillac which was badged as a Holden because he did not want people to see him travelling in a flash yankee car. The car still exists and is here in Sydney.

[John Tozer #7946]

Mark,

Somewhere around here I have a photo of Bob Menzies black ?1950 Cadillac that was always parked, with its driver, unobtrusively around the side of the old Parliament House waiting for him to call for it.


john Tozer

[Ken Andersen # 21420]

Dear John,
Yes are are absolutely correct.  It was not until the 30s that CKD Caddies & La Salles were imported in this way.

For the benefit of Bruce and all you other Cadillac members who input into the topic, grab a "cuppa tea" and anjoy some history.

I quote from: Restored Cars Magazine, Edition Nuber 45 Published: July 20, 1981. Editorial by Norm Darwin entitled:
Cadillac and La Salle In Australia.
"General Motors started operations in Australia around 1920, for this reason we have records from the GM Export Co., these show GM imported Cadillacs into Australia from 1920 onwards. It is unknown haw many were imported outside the GM organisation until 1926 when detailed records were kept. In this year 88 Cadillacs were registered, Gm figures show they imported in 61 thus the balance would have found their way to Australia through a number of private companies who had been importing for many years, amoung them were firms like Lanes Motors in Melbourne, and McGraths Motors in Sydney.  La Salle was introduced into Australia in 1927, 30 were registered along with 149 Cadillacs. By this time GM Export had been replaced with GM Australia Ltd and imports outside the GM umbrella had fallen to just 5 units. At the time of introducing the La Salle, 5 body styles were available, the 4 passenger Victoria and Phaeton, a 5 passenger Sedan, a 2 passenger Roadster and a 2 passenger Coupe, both with dickey seats. Cadillacs in Austalia quickly gained a reputation for outstanding performance. Typical was a V-63 Cadillac, which covered 100,000 miles in 3 1/2 years at a maintenance cost of only 20 pounds. (20 pounds loosly converted to todays currency is around $40.00). This maintenance consisted of 2 springs, a schackle and 2 brake drums, and the car was used mainly for hire work on fast trips reaching constant speeds of 85 mph. With the depression looming Cadillac and La Salle sales fell dramatically from 1930, with only 2 units sold for the entire 1933 year.In early 1920 Holden Motor Body Builders built 1 Cadillac & 1 La Salle body, both of which were 5 passenger sedan and it is not known what chassis was used. Holdens built a further 2 bodies, again one of each in April 1931 and these were also 5 passenger sedans. Holdens waited 5 years and then produced bodies for the 60 series sedan (24) and the 75 series Imperial sedan (6), and the 75 seriesTouring (14)between 1926 and 1938.  302 La Salle sedans were also built over a longer period that ran into 1940.  From this period the importing of Cadillacs and La Salles was left again to firms outside the GM Organisation.

Cadillac & La Salle Sales and Registrations 1920 - 1942

Cadillac Sales  1920   1921  1922  1923  1924  1925  1926
 Australia       24      1    28    69     83    41    61
 New Zealand     13      5     2    16     38    16    12

Registrations

          1926  1927  1928  1929  1930  1931  1932 1933  1934
Cadillac   88    110   108    70    44    8     9    1     28
La Salle          39   106    99    47   11     7    1     24

          1935  1936  1937  1938  1939  1940  1941  1942
Cadillac    19    39    20    51    29    25          2
La Salle    19    75   108    74    43    10            
"End Quotation.
*** Please note: Preamble in the editorial with reference to Cadillac inovations between models has been omitted in order to condense this quotation.***

I personally tracked Mr Norm Darwin down 2 years ago, and went over this article with him.  The information contained in the article is taken from records that are currently in the possesion of the Mortlake Library in Adelaide South Australia. This library holds, in archive, all the early records of General Motors Australia, and is in fact sponsored by GM Australia.  When I contacted the Library searching for any possible information on the 1928 341-A 7 Passenger Fisher that I am restoring, I was advised that basically what I had recounted as per the article above, was all the information that the library held covering the early days of GM in Australia. The real history part starts from when GM Australia developed the first all Australian designed and built Holden which was in 1948.(As therefore can be demonstrated, from 1940 to 1948 GM Australia did not import any fully built or CKD Cadillac or La Salles or make any bodies for them).  Certainly, all of the early Cadillacs & La Salles upto approx the very late early 30s were imported fully built. I did have a copy of another article somewhere which eleborates on the other GM makes that GM Australia was importing.  I am sure that it was the other lesser prised models, the Pontiacs, Chevys etc that were imported in CKD and fully assembled here.

My 1928 341-A was imported fully assembled, with RHD steering, and was probably imported by McGraths Motors Sydney. The ex factory production record ( the only version of a qasi build sheet for my car) shows that the vehicle was destined for Sydney, Australia. I have contacted McGraths Motors Sydney, and unfortunately, there is no recollection of the exsistance of any archival material with the McGrath organisation that would elaborate on the history of my vehicle or any other that would have been imported around this time.  I am still trying to track the history of my vehicle, however, I am afraid that all the "old" guys that may have known the truth have passed on.  There is speculation and word of mouth form current Australia Cadillac Chapter members of where my vehicle may have or may not have bee, and who may and who may not have owned it, gut alas, I am still searching for results.

I hope that I have enlightened all you guys out there that had an interest in the history of GM in Australia.


       
   

[Ken Andersen # 21420]

Sorry Guys, the table of registrations & sales got out of whack,
so here it is in a better format.  Hopefully on posting, it wont get screwed around.

Cadillac & La Salle Sales and Registrations 1920 - 1942

Cadillac Salesâ€"1920â€"1921â€"1922â€"1923â€"1924â€"1925--1926
Australia-------24----1-- 28---69---83---41----61
New Zealand-----13----5----2---16---38---16----12

Registrations

----------1926â€"1927â€"1928â€"1929â€"1930â€"1931â€"1932â€"1933--1934
Cadillac---88--110--108---70---44----8---9----1-----28
La Salle---39--106---99---47---11----7-- -----1-----24

---------1935â€"1936â€"1937â€"1938â€"1939â€"1940â€"1941--1942
Cadillac--19---39---20---51---29---25----------2
La Salle--19---75--108---74---43-------------10                

[Bruce Reynolds # 18992]

Thanks Ken,

Now I will have to lose some of the information stored in my brain to absorb what I have just now learned.

I do hope that I dont ever have to remember what has just been deleted though.   If I do, then I will just have to lay the blame with you.  

Now, what have I just not remembered?

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

[R Holden]

Hi all

What Bruce says about Holden bodied Caddy's is "mostly" correct.

Prior to 1918 to the best of my knowledge all Caddy's that were imported were complete "export" models form the US. My 1914 5 passenger was a complete car when delivered 14th Feb 1914. I have a 1918 Caddy that was delivered CKD, but know of a 1919 Cady that was delivered new complete as an export coupe (now converted to a roadster after receiving the UTE treatment in the 40's). The Tariff that existed to encourage the production of Australian bodies made these cars nearly twice as expensive as a locally produced car, so you had to be both wealthy and determined to own one.

After 1920 as Bruce points out nearly all Caddy's were Australian bodied (not necessarily Holden but!) with some exceptions.

All 1934 La Salle's (20 or 24 depending on where the figure come from) were all complete export cars, Fleetwood bodied ( I have found 6 of the 20 or so). My 1934 La Salle Coupe was delivered new direct to GMH for J R Holden's private use. This car differed from most export models as it had high compression head where as most export models were low compression. The remaining 20 or so cars were all sedans (no club sedans were imported as fas as I know). I'm not aware of any Holden bodied 1935 La Salles so I assume these were all complete cars when imported.

From 1936 till 1940 Holden certainly made bodies and marketed La Salles and Cadillac's however some imported complete cars arrived in RHD export configeration, one example of this was the 1936 Convertible sedan that belonged to the Circus (Ringling Bros I think) this car is still in VGC and is from memory also a Fleetwood body.

Russell Holden
Mudgee, NSW Australia.