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An unfortunate valuation type question

Started by Joe Bento #20081, January 07, 2007, 09:40:01 PM

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Joe Bento #20081

Okay, so I have a conundrum, so forgive me if this is a long post.

Most of you remember that I am working on a 1940 Cadillac series 72 (7223), of which, Cadillac produced 305.

Well, in short, the friend who has been helping me work on this beast is evicting her (everything is good, it has just been 4 years and he needs the space in a few weeks).  Over the past 4 years, we have rebuilt the engine, replaced (nearly) all the rubber in the front end, rebuilt the front brakes, new master cylinder, new wiring harness, and replaced the 15" wheels that the car had when I acquired her with the correct 16" wheels.  Engine and tranni have not been reinstalled yet and all the front end sheet metal is removed.

Paint shop wants $11K to do the paint, plus I am sure I can count on at least another 1K for rubber parts (pads, grommets, etc) and another 2K for tires, and we wont even talk about chrome yet (next post) which I just dont have right now (bonuses are paid in June, so I should have most of it by then).  In the meantime I have to move the car.  I dont want to put everything back together, because the paint shop says they would have to remove it anyway when it does go in (and of course that would just drive the price up even more).

I dont have space at my place for the car and assorted pieces, it cant stay where it is, and without the money, it cant go to the paint shop.  I can pay for storage, but that will cost over $100/month which greatly slows the abiliity to save for the work to be done.

So here are the questions:

1) Fully restored, what is approximate value of this beast (I know this is a loaded question, but a reasonable ball park would be appreciated)
2) What is the value of the car should I chose to sell it today (I would of course reinstall engine, tranni, and front metal).  Rest of the car is 67 yars old and never been restored.  Paint is shot, interior is in place and complete, but dry rotted,  Straight body, surface rust only, the only place rusted through is in the trunk where the spare tire goes.  Trim is mostly needing polish, but some pieces (like the front grills and bumpers) are pitted and need to be re-chromed.

I am stressing here and need some advice from the folks who know and care what I have been through.

Thanks!

Joe

Michael Stamps 19507

I cannot answer your other questions but honestly if you are thinking about a $11,000 paint job then $600 for storage wouldnt be asking a lot.

Stampie

wm link

This sounds like a good project going bad...and it is a common occurance. If $100 a month is going to greatly impact your car budget...you are painfully over your head. If you cannot get the car done the finished future value is only a frustration, high or low.  The paint and body work usually goes well over the estimate...and you are lucky if it looks even close to what you are expecting when its done. You will need paint work before chrome work and that budget adjustment should limit your storage costs should you store the car.  The project, as it is, is going to be a hard sell. You could start there however, offer it for sale with the best marketing you can throw at it. Be realistic as to the selling price, it could mean a loss. I think you already know all this deep down, but again, have comfort in knowing...you or your Cadillac are not alone.

Joe Bento #20081

Okay, first off, it is not as dire as that.  Forgive me if I made it sounds as such.  A good project going bad seems a bit extreme.

The main delimma is that I need to find the car a home for about 6 months prior to my being ready (and the car not being in a state where moving it and the assorted parts is not at all easy).  I think the paint shop guy will work with me on that though.

The costs are not out of line of what I was expecting, just that they are coming about a year ahead of schedule.  That said, I think I can pull it off in about 6 months.  Budgeting in my case means putting money aside from bonuses and such.  $100.00 a month comes out of the household budget, and for my family at least, they are 2 seperate things.  

Anyway, I can find a way to make it work.  I sat down with DW this evening and she agrees that to sell out now is a move that would haunt me the rest of my life.  I have too much invested in this already (and I am not talking financial) to stop now.

Bruce Reynolds # 18992

Gday Joe,

I understand where you are coming from, and after just finishing a RHD conversion, and total rebuild of a 59 Ford Thunderbird that took 16 years to complete, plus an unknown amount of Dollars that both the Owner and I havent bothered to count up, and never will, your car will take a while to get done, and cost more than you realise.   Plus, it was all stored at my place whilst doing it.   Parts in the spare room, garage, all over the place.

Now, firstly with regard losing your present storeage/work area, and having to rent a place to put it before the painting gets done, I have but one question.   Where are you going to Garage the completed vehicle?   Bearing in mind that it appears that it is going to be a top-notch car when completed, I take it that you will have somewhere to "Lock-up Garage" it.   So, if so, why cant you park it there till the painter is ready for it?   It wont take much to "loosely" stick it back together so it is in one piece.

If it is going to be left outside in the weather when it is painted, it is pointless going to the expense of getting a perfect paint job in the first place, but that isnt up to me to tell you what to do.

As far as the painting process, and the bodyworks wanting to put it all back together included in the quote, if it was me, I would sure as eggs are oval, want to see it all together, to see that everything actually fits, and that nothing needs to be done to make it fit.   There is nothing worse than to finish something off, only to find that it doesnt fit properly as it is going back together.

I am doing refitting to a car now that was painted, and then put back together, without making sure everything lined up first.

Now, I cant advise on painting or chroming costs in your Country, but I do know that chroming is very expensive anywhere in the world where Pollution Controls are very tight.   Plus, the Chroming process is only as good as the person doing the process steps.

But, I would advise, if you are able, having the parts to be plated, stripped, and Copper Plated, then sent back to you so that you can clean them up by hand, and if necessary having them re copper plated, and rubbed down, as many times as it takes to get a perfect finish before the Nickel Plating is applied.

Having the Chrome Plater do all the cleaning-up and buffing process between the copper plating and the Nickel Plating can lead to "out-of-shape" pieces as it is usually the apprentice, or the lower paid employees that get that job, and I have found that most times they just dont take care when buffing parts, and it is in this area that needs expert workmanship.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

Bill Gauch

I dont disagree with everything said so far, but I do have some input. You didnt give any kind of information about where you are located (country, state, city, etc.) It may be possible to work out a deal for storage with someone located in your area with an extra garage bay. If you do go this route, make sure you (and they) feel secure with this transaction (contract, locks, price, lengh of time, etc.). Put everything in writing and both of you sign it with an impartial witness. Alternately, if its only for 6 months, drop the engine and tranny back in, bolt the front sheet metal back on, tow it to your place and put a tarp over it to slow the rust. Dont park it on the lawn if possible. If you simply must keep the car in pieces, do the tarp over the body/chassis and find a self-storage locker for the smaller foot print of the engine, transmission and front sheetmetal. A lot of storage places have differently priced spaces for people who dont need to store something the size of a car. Finally, if you simply cant store it at your place and you are going to drop $11K on the paint, can you work out a deal with the paint shop to store the vehicle in their yard? Many places at least have a locked chain-link fence for a degree of security, if they need it.

Bill Sullivan

Joe:

No one has offered what your car would be worth once restored.  Obviously, the answer depends on the details, but I can comfortably say that very, very few restored cars sell for more than the actual restorations costs.  Exceptions might be highly sought after models, like convertible coupes or phaetons.  These cars are no more costly to restore than your limo and they are worth a great deal more.

The Model 72 Cadillac is very rare but not really sought after either.  I had a equally rare 90 series Buick limo that was similar.  It was extremely difficult to find parts for my car and its restoration was slow and costly.  I loved the car and never had any regrets for bringing it back to life.  But when I sold it, I did not come close to recovering my costs.

I suggest you restore you car for the fun of it, because chances are you will not come out right side up on the car.  But if you want to profit, do what the professional shops who sell at Barrett Jackson do:  start with a car with maximum curb appeal and history.  You dont see those folks restoring any four door sedans or limos -- unless they belonged to Elvis or the Shah of Iran.....

Value of restored Model 72 Cadillac?  Old Car Value Guide says $45K for condition 1 (that means showroom perfect professional restoration).  Note that the same guide says $68K for a more common Model 62 Convertible coupe.

Bill.