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Urgent Clutch Question - 1982 Cadillac 341-A

Started by Ken Andersen # 21420, January 27, 2007, 01:30:33 AM

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Ken Andersen # 21420

I have just had the clutch from my 1928 341A rebuilt and restored.
One question that the clutch expert asked me was,
What is the height of the release levers supposed to be?

Apparently, when the release levers were set at the same height as when the clutch was brought to him the clutch would not operate (release) correctly.
He then had to mount the clutch onto a machine and fiddle around with the release lever settings, until the clutch would engage and disengage.
Now that the clutch is working properly, he advises that I may have to play around with the clutch pedal, rods etc, until the correct pedal clearance is established.  He also mentioned that I way have to add a longer rod etc.

Does anyone have any ideas on the subject of 341-A clutchs.

I have not yet picked up the clutch ( will do so next weekend) so I need to have some answer as soon as possible.


Regards

Ken

JIM CLC # 15000

01-27-07
Ken, Sorry,I dont have any knowledge of the 1928,but ifr memory serves me correctly, you want less then 1 of free movement of the clutch pedal and the clutch should be completely released prior to the pedal reaching the floor. (the clutch begains to engage a little off of the floor). As for the height of the release levers, I just dont know. But, I would think that you will not have any problems with the clutch assembly, Unless, it has been machined once or twice before. Sounds like the mose you would have to do is install a longer clutch release-rod, But all is just a WAG.
HTH
Good Luck,JIM

Ken Andersen # 21420

Dear Jim,
 
Thanks for the information and feedback.
It is difficult to establish at this stage, the pedal specifics as the clutch is still at the shop awaiting any final confirmation from me re the height of the release levers.
I suppose that as long as the plates etc adhere to the specifications in the workshop manual, then the rest is rudimentary.
So long as they can get the clutch to work on the machine in the clutch shop, then it would be up to me to ensure that, once the clutch is installed into its correct place, and the transmission etc are installed, that my pedal, levers & rods, are adjusted so that the correct clearances are achieved.
Guess I will have to take a punt and hope that the clutch setup is ok, and that it will work once everthing is put back together.

Regards
Ken

JIM CLC # 15000

01-27-07
Ken, At this point, I think you will have to play it by ear, unless the man that is re-building the clutch assembly can come up with some figures. Sorry, I dont even have a WAG right now.
Please let all the message board readers know the final out-come.

Ken Andersen # 21420

Dear Jim,
 
I guess thats all I can do for now.
Hopefully once installed, it will work.
I will keep the message board updated with the final results.

Regards
Ken

Paul Ayres #5640

Ken - Before you pay your clutch rebuilder for the job, let me check the shop manual for your car at the Cadillac-LaSalle Club Museum and Research Center.  The shop manuals for later cars give the finger height, so I hope the same data is there for your car.  I will be at the Museum on Thursday, and will check this for you, or perhaps someone with a shop manual at hand can do it sooner.  Paul Ayres

Warren Rauch

  This clutch is apparentlly a little tricky, It was only used in 1928-29. There are were couple articles in the SERVICE MAN  this is from Feb1,1928 (Vol 2 #3)
 A possible but not  probable cause for clutch chatter is lack of perfect parallelisim between (not over .002 variance) the driving plates. When the clutch is assembled it is  adjusted on a fixture so the plates are absolutely parallel. The only way this adjustment can be affected is by someone tampering with the adusting screws  in the spring pressure plate or by the release fingers being sprung.The latter is not likely to happen except on some of the early clutches which were assembled before the present heat-treatment of the release fingers was adopted.
 In either case - impropperly adjusted screws or sprung release fingers- the spring presure plate must be replaced. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO REAJUST THE POSITIONS OF THE FINGERS for the following reason:
 Theoretically ,when the inner ends of the fingers are exactly in the same plane, the driving plates will be held exactly parallel. Practically , however , this is not always so, and in order to get the plates parallel it is sometimes necessary to adjust the screws in the preasure plate assembly so that the inner ends of the fingers are slightly out of line.
 Our practice is to make sure by actual test that the plates are parallel and let thr inner ends of the fingers come where they will. In other words , we make sure that we get the effect we want instead of making our test by secondary effect.
 As long as the release fingers will permit the normal adjustment of the clutch pedal, no attention should be paid to the positions of the fingers.If the clutch does not chatter, the preasusre plate should be assumed to be in correct adjustment. Even if the clutch does chatter, in practically every case it will be found to be due to oil on the facings.Warren

Ken Andersen # 21420

Dear Warren & Paul,

Thanks guys heaps for all you assistance.
The clutch has already been restored, and due to its condition when dropped off, had to have several components remade.

My clutch restorer, does his job with passion, and does not want to release the clutch, until he is absolutely sure that he has got it right.  ( He has and is restoring a lot of late 20s & 30s Ford and other makes, so I believe he knows his business).

Warren, I will forward on your article so that he can mill over it.


Paul - I will await your further communication re the release levers/fingers.

Once again,  Many thanks.

Ken Andersen #21420


john fotakis

Hi Ken. Dare I ask. How did you go with the radiator cap? You know youre going to have to bring this 1928 beast down to Melbourne when youre done.

Paul Ayres #5640

Ken - I think I have your problem solved.  As I suspected I would find, the 341A shop manual is very specific about the thickness of the clutch linings.  They must be between .305 and .315 assembled on the disc.  Originally, Cadillac did not recommend refacing the discs, because they would be too thick with avaialable lining material, and it was not practical to grind the facings to the correct thickness after they were assembled to the discs.  But, this is just what your clutch guy will need to do to get the discs to the correct thickness.  They are too thick now, leading to the story that you will have to lengthen the clutch push rod the get the clutch to disengage.  Have the discs ground to the correct thickness, or get thinner facing material to get to the correct dimension, set the release fingers to even heights after the clutch is reassembled, and you should be fine.  Clutch pedal free travel is specified at 7/8 to 1-1/8 inch.  I will send you scans of the appropriate shop manual pages to your e-mail address.  Good luck with this.  Paul Ayres

Ken Andersen #21420

Dear John,
 
I managed to have a radiator cap set aside from the person that supplied me the radiator in the first place. He was sure that he sent me one, but buggered if I can find it.

My restoration is going ahead in leaps and bounds, and the only drawback at this stage will be if I run out of money.  Failing this, hopefully the restoration will be completed by the end of this year.
 
So long as everything goes according to plan, and the little lady is running perfectly, it would be  my pleasure to drive it down to Melbourne.   Glad that you asked the question, or made the suggestion. I consider it an open invitation.

Best Regards
Ken

Ken Andersen #21420

Dear Paul,
 
Many thanks for your efforts, ti is very much appreciated.
I will pass on this information to the clutch guy this morning, and double check with him, that the thicknesses of the plates are in accordance with what you have advised.
 
Once again, thanks heaps.

Regards
Ken