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How to stop the slide of interest in old cars!!

Started by Randall A. McGrew CLC # 17693, February 23, 2007, 12:51:53 PM

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Randall A. McGrew CLC # 17693


I just saw an AARP commercial that has an older man driving a Gremlin (in really nice condition) using a brick phone, and unfortunately being made out to be a kooky brother.  What we need to do is motorvate the Classic Car Community and Clubs to get advertisers like AARP to make their commercials lauding the use of older cars, recognizing the positives in owning and driving an older car like no car payments, reduced auto insurance, and the interest factor in owning something not owned by every Tom, Dick, and Harry down the street. Think of the sheer variety to choose from!
The drawbacks are obvious... maintenance and keeping it road worthy.  Cost etc.
Imagine if young people get the idea that its cool and kind of anti-establishment.

There will always be people who prefer new for convenience and reliability.  I have never had much in the way of trouble from my old cars.  No more so in number than my father with his modern car over 5 years.  

Johnny #662

It is my opinion, while the interest in old cars will basically always be with us, the "participation" is slowly declining due to a few factors.

Younger people dont have the same love and enthusiasm as those of us that can remember the cars of the 50s and before.  Having a car, isnt as much of a big deal for them as it was for us.  The cars of the last 20-25 years dont have the same physical attraction as the cars of the 50s and 60s do.

The restoration of older cars, isnt as easy and simple as it used to be.  Most of the desirable cars of the 50s and 60s have already been scooped up.  These were the ones that the hardest part to restoring them was finding the parts.  With cars of the last 20 years or so, restoring them is more expensive then in the past, especially with all the new technology involved.

Another nail in the coffin, is the recent rise in prices of many "garden variety" cars, which have reached exorbitant levels.

Paul W Allen CLC#20193

Johnny,

I Agree. Youve hit the nail right on the head in my opinion. I hate to imagine how much interest there will be in the hobby in another say, 15 years from now. I hope were both wrong!

Paul
53 Coupe
Twin Turbine

Randall A. McGrew CLC # 17693

If you consider what is against it, you may shorten that 15 years to 5 years.

Oil, environmental concerns, a sliding economy, the NAFTA repopulatiing of America to become an open, flowing area from Southern Mexico to Northern Canada - call it economic pressures on the already sliding economy, availability of parts, numbers of cars and trucks on the roads with the massive increase of people in this country, Laws to restrict automobiles that cannot match new rules for fuel use, economy of use and polution (sic).  It is an extremely complex issue.  Then you enter in the kind of interests that hold younger people and the old just does not cut it.  Technology is key now with computers and the WOW appeal of kustom jobs that actually break many state laws when on the road.  Instant gratification and flash overwhelms the more comfortable, slow feeling of wool fabrics, small engines and quaintness.  

Face it... we are very quicklly being made irrelevant.  Not all of us.. but the majority.
I find it is just a turn of the page.  I am sure there will be some interested in old things like cars.  Like those interested in Civil War recreations or Neolithic Celtic Villages.  Or trains that are no longer seen and rarely spotlighted in the general media or mind set.

My feeling is, I dont want to follow the herd.  Never have. Never will.  I like what I like and that is what I will have.  What more can one do?  I tried to suggest something but it probably would not work because there is no will for it.

Johnny #662

Randall, you bring out another very important factor, that young people dont have an interest in things that are "old", especially cars!  Added to the fact the cost of getting involved with the hobby, the future does look gloom.  Some might argue that recent car auctions have been bringing in record prices, which only means that the car hobby is becoming a rich mans game.

Walter Youshock, CLC 11959

To ALL of us:  Ask yourself:  "How old am I?"  Personally, I am 37.  Cadillacs have been a part of my family since I was 3 years old.  It was a USED 1968 Sedan deVille in late 1972 when my Uncle Frank married my Aunt Camille.  (BTW--EVERYBODY should have an "Aunt Camille & Uncle Frank" in their lives--Cadillacs are just the beginning.)  The "MAGIC CAR with the windows that went up and down; the seat that floated like a cloud; and Cruise Control, Guidematic, and Climate Control?! Our Chevies had NOTHING.  To ride in "The Car of Cars" truly was a pleasure.  And, at after I was told about "Cadillac", did people look at you or the car--yeah--they did.  

Who looks now?  Where is the desire?  What lights the fire?  I have an ad from 1955 titled:  "THE CLASS OF 1985" with a brand new Cadillac in the front yard.  Hopefully, this kid pushing a lawnmower pursued a new Cadillac.  Had he, it would have been a Brougham--how it has all changed.  Today, that kid wouldnt know a Cadillac from, an at-the-time Studebaker/Packard ad for an Avanti (CTS) or a panel truck.

FRED #23106

I have been in old cars for over 40 years and enjoyed every minute of it.  I have been at Hershey most all of those years, as well as Carlisle and other events. This year, I attended the B-J auction in Phoenix and last week was at the Kruse auction in Naples, Florida. Here are my observations.

Hershey: One of my best friends is a "people watcher" and he sits in his chair outside our tent at Hershey and reads his Wall Street Journal, smoking his once-a-year cigar. Last year, we were talking about the decline of interest in the hobby and he said he has figured it out - "too many gray hairs". I never thought much about it, but I started taking a closer look and he is exactly right. Years ago, fathers brought their sons to the shows - now the fathers come alone, even though the show is as big as ever. (Carlisle seems to be slowing down of late).
 
Most of our children are too busy with their computers and have no interest in the old car restoration hobby. They might have some interest in cars, but these would be the new ones - mostly imports, with all of the options available to be cool. Few want to get their hands dirty working on an old car. That is for us to enjoy. The newer cars will be very complicated to keep running with all of their computers, etc. New regulations are gradually working against us too.

I also note that the interest is focused on the muscle cars now (cars from the 50s, 60s and 70s). The pre-war cars which I really enjoy are no longer as popular (or increasing in value) as in the past, as the "gray hairs" are gradually dieing off. Corvettes are still popular.  Few in our younger generation know the joy of crawling under a car to pull a transmission in the winter, or fixing the brakes themselves. Things are changing and we must accept these changes.

Several weeks ago, my wife and I went to a nice restaurant and the waitress offered oil to put on a plate for our bread. I told her we didnt want any 10W-30 oil for our bread and to bring butter.  She had a puzzled look - not knowing what 10W-30 was..... She probably doesnt even know that oil is required in her car. The closest thing that she or her boyfriend or husband will ever get to doing anything for their cars is to put in fuel. If the car is lucky, the oil might be checked once in awhile and if even luckier, the air in the tires might get checked once a year (if they can figure out how to open the hood).

However, as long as I am still living, I plan to enjoy my old cars (now have only one - a 1939 LaSalle Convertible Coupe which is currently in process of a light restoration). It will be finished soon and I will drive it this summer and my new car can sit in the garage and the battery can run down. Luckily, our son is greatly interested in the hobby, goes to Hershey and Carlisle every year (and went with me to B-J auction in Phoenix last month).  His first car was a well-used 1965 Mustang convertible that he bought at age 16. (No - I didnt buy this car for him - he earned every penny working and saving for his dream car, He also worked and paid his way through college, even though I could have easily footed the bill). However, this is the exception and I am very fortunate that he has this interest and stayed with the hobby all of these years.

Hopefully some of our children and grand-children will take an interest in our hobby after we are gone, but just cannot see this as a sure thing.

Fred

Dave


I agree that the young people of today, Im 47) dont have the same passion for cars as we did. When I was in high school, the number one priority was to keep your car washed and waxed and looking good. Now in school parking lots, all you see are mostly 4 door imports with high dollar sound systems. Im also amazed when a younger person will ask me to help them find a car to purchase, Ill mention that so and so has this 2 door, theyll reply that theyre only interested in a 4 door. Theres nothing wrong with a 4 door, but when I was that age, you wouldnt be caught dead in one! You didnt care how uncomfortable it was to sit on the hump in the back seat of a camaro or cutlass, but you were cool! I also have a collection of 50s and early 60s cars, but my nephews arent the least bit interested in them so it will be interesting to see what happens in years to come. Also, I agree with the high dollars being paid at auctions. It really has ruined the hobby. I look at those cars roll off the auction block thinking most will never be driven and come back to hopefully bring more money than it did before. How sad. Im grateful, when I sell a collector car, to get what I paid for it because the pleasure it gave me is my return on investment.

EAM - CLC17806

RANDY! THE INTEREST IN ANTIQUE CARS AMONGST YOUNGER GUYS IS STILL GOOD, AT LEAST WHAT I SEE AT THE CAR SHOWS HERE IN NEW ENGLAND.  SOME OF THEIR CARS MIGHT BE MODIFIED BUT OVERALL THEY SEEM TO HAVE QUITE A BIT OF INTEREST IN THEIR OLD CARS AND KEEP THEM IN GOOD SHAPE.  NEXT TIME YOU GO TO THE SHOWS LOOK AROUND AND YOU MIGHT BE SURPRISED TO SEE YOUNGER GUYS, I WOULD SAY BETWEEM THE AGES OF 28 TO 38 WHO ARE VERY INTERESTED IN THE HOBBY.  GUYS YOUNGER THAN THAT JUST DONT HAVE THE FUNDS YET, FOR THE MOST PART, TO INVEST IN OUR HOBBY BUT MANY WILL GET THERE WHEN THEY CAN ACCUMULATE SOME FUNDS LIKE MOST OF US HAD TO. HAVE NO FEAR THE INTEREST IS STILL THERE!

Morgan Murphy, #17409

I agree totally, Walter and have a couple of points to add.

1.  Involve children.  My neices and nephews and next-door-neighbor children call me "Uncle Caddy."  They help me wash and wax my cars and LOVE to talk about them.  I get cards and drawings on my birthday of Cadillacs (I just turned 35 last week).  I am planning on signing them all up for the Junior Cadillac club.  Theres an older teenager at my church, who has actually posted on this site, who is really looking to buy an inexpensive collector Cad.  (Much to my chagrin, he bought a 1946 Packard a year ago).

2.  When people approach my car (a 1958 Eldorado Brougham), I try not to panic that theyll scratch the paint or dent something.  Instead, I try to be the friendly, fun person with the really cool car.  So often, I think the general public is turned off by our conversation pieces because the people behind the hunk of iron are know-it-alls and fussbudgets.  Im guilty of that sometimes.  Every now and then I just want to put gas in the old girl and not hear "My aunt Virginia had one of those .. . ."  But Im trying.

By the way, it was my Aunt Peggy and Uncle Bubba (the Southern version of Uncle Frank) that made Cadillacs "magic" for me in their 1976 and 1978.

Art#22010

I would tend to agree more with EAM. I think it can be assessed best, from the perch from which you view. Down the ladder, here in Hershey, there is plenty of interest. It manifest itself in differant ways, yet like all things, they go in cycles. Being 55
and surfing with the gray hairs I tend to ignor the younger breed and their cars. Yet at a local show last year I was amazed
how many young folk, 16-24, came up and viewed and appreciated my 49. There is still hope.   Art

Randall A. McGrew CLC # 17693

That is good news, EAM and Art.  

I had a keen interest in antique cars but my family was not, and not having any money of my own other than what I made in low level jobs after school, there was no hope in getting one.  Dad definitely does not believe or trust in old cars, including fairly new Used Cars.  

I kept the interest alive on my own until I could in College.  And then later, when reliability was not a huge requirement.  So I see what you are saying.  What I was suggesting is to open the concept of older cars as early projects and daily drivers rather than sinking a persons money immediately into car loans and high insurance.
Like I said, if only 1 percent took up that idea and purchased a good, old station wagon rather than a new SUV, then the interest might have a path to follow, including giving younger people a chance to learn more about those old cars.

Art#22010

Randall, I agree. The auto being such a part of the culture, indeed, ingrained in the very fabic of it, I can see no other way then for there to be, future interest. Seeing where it goes is the problem. That said, time will tell. However, if I had to bet I would put my money on growth. Art

Johnny#662

Quote from: Art#22010Randall, I agree. The auto being such a part of the culture, indeed, ingrained in the very fabric of it, I can see no other way then for there to be, future interest. Seeing where it goes is the problem. That said, time will tell. However, if I had to bet I would put my money on growth. Art

The question is what type of future interest?  I just dont see the enthusiasm of someone to restore a 25 year old Toyota, now, like that was around in the 70s, when many people wanted to restore American 50s cars.

TJ H 20664

My name is TJ and I’m 35.  I have had my car for 10+ years now. I have driven it the whole time but it took 7 years to get all the trim on and a decent paint job. I have been a member of the national club for around 4 years.  I joined because I wanted to join my local club (which reminds me I told them I was going to renew so I got to send that check). I renewed both my memberships and this year and am going to try and make an effort to try more events and get to know more people.   My local chapter seems to be fairly active and has a strong membership so they must be doing something right. I don’t want or expect them to change for me and do what I want because I may be the minority.  I would imagine if I had ideas for events that they would be more than willing to work them into the schedule if they thought other members would attend.  The FEW (could be part of my problem) shows and events I have gone to have not really interested me.  I only found a few people that seemed to want to talk about cars and repairs.  My car now is a 20/20, 20 feet or 20 mph and it looks great.  Very few people in the club seem to have any interest in it which is fine, everybody does not have to like the same car but that just doesn’t make it much fun for me.  There is at least 1 other active member with a car like mine so I understand that its not unusual or anything.  The guy with the same car does not do much of his own work and now has a family, which again is fine and may interest others but just doest do anything for me.  Everyone I have met has been very nice and cordial but after some small talk the conversation moves to something I cant get into and I feel like I am just standing all alone.  Im not saying that anyone is doing anyting wrong or that they should change anything Im just saying how I feel and why Im not overly excited to attend many events.  I bought a 73 because 10 years ago it was reasonably priced and all the mechanical parts were available in stock at local parts stores. It was also nice that it had disc brakes to start with.   My car has 67 hubcaps on it because it came with 3 of those and no 73’s and I thought they looked better anyway. I found 3 more in good shape for a fair price so that’s what I have.  I also have a dual exhaust (which I want to get rid of because of ground clearance issues) and a massive trailer hitch because I tow my boat around town with it.  I ran into a ‘mature’ gentleman (not a club member as far as I know) in a parking lot somewhere that was looking at the car. Even when I am in a hurry I try to stop and chat for a bit and answer questions or whatever.  I said ‘Hi’ and he asked if this was my car and how long I had had it.   So far fairly normal chat, he then said ‘you know those are not the right hubcaps’ I said ‘yes I know’ and told him what they were and why.  At that point he started picking on other non stock or original aspects of the car and especially when I was aware of all and other history and details of them seemed to get angry and started one of those finger waving ‘back in my day’ stereotype rants.    I know that he was not a typical Cadillac guy but I think that’s how younger people think all Cadillac owners are.   I have been driving a faded rusty 78 CDV for the last few months and people always try and pass me because they expect me to be creeping along with my blinker on all the time.  My interest is in anything mechanical.  I will look at anything that is unique and ask questions. I don’t care if its old or new.  At one event a member had a 30ish car.  On one of the stops on the trip a bunch of us younger guys gathered around the front of this car and we were all looking at the mechanics of the front end with the mechanical brakes and the steer able headlights.  I personally don’t ever see myself owning a 30’s Cadillac even if I did have the money but they are sure neat cars.  Same goes for the popular imports, Id never own one my self but you have to respect the serious guys that are into that when you look at the performance they are squeezing out of those tiny engines. Like it or not those are the next/current generation of car enthusiasts.  I have been to a few small ‘shows’ where there is a little bit of everything and every age and I have found if you take an interest in other peoples cars they will often look at yours.  Problem is that most of the Cadillac owners have the reputation of being older guys like the one I met in the parking lot that think everything made after the mid 60’s is crap.   Just look at some of the questions that get posted on this board from what I assume are newer younger people just getting into Cadillacs from the 70s-90’s since those are the affordable ones right now. Often times their questions go with no responses, not even a ‘sorry I cant help you but I have heard about a site or group that does that kind of thing’… or ‘back when I had one of those this is what I did’.  There can be 100 responses to the width of whitewalls but no one makes an attempt to help or welcome the new guys that want to do something to make their cars more fun for them.  Im not saying that the width of whitewalls is not an important discussion but since many members owned the cars or similar cars that the younger people are now buying it would seem like there could be more help available.  Years ago I had asked questions about making changes to my car here and either didnt get any response or felt like I was being told that what I wanted to do was wrong without any explination why.  I dont remember what I was asking and it is possible that I has some real dumb idea that I have since figured out was dumb but no one even pointed that out so I had to learn it the hard way myself.

I have made some new friends just by driving by and seeing someone with the hood up in the driveway.  I am very good with electronics and helped a young guy down the street from me get his stereo working right, since then he comes down to chat with me when Im working on something in the driveway.  Another guy I met on a Ford board before I bought mine because he was asking questions about points. I have had many engines with point and own the tools to work on them so I offered to help him out. I ended up going over to his place and helped him and his friends set the dwell on his hacked up Mustang that he was going to put huge wheels and a video game system in.  After we worked on his stang they all wanted to look at my Eldorado because they never knew there were front wheel drive cars with ABS brakes back then.  When they found out that it was an 8.2 liter engine they were calling more people over to come see it.  I don’t see any of them buying a Cadillac but at least they know something about them now.    

I too remember when I was a kid (I know, I still am to some of you guys!) that a neighbor had a Fleetwood sedan and that was the coolest thing ever and we took every chance we had to go for a ride with him because of all the neat stuff like power windows, ashtrays, and the armrest in the back seat that made a nifty divider to keep your brother on his side of the car.  My family at the time had a GMC truck (back when a truck was a truck) and a Pontiac Ventura so to me the Cadillac was a very special treat.  I think my Grandparents had a basic Dodge that made our Pontiac look like a Caddy, but their neighbor always had new Eldorados.  We got our new Safari wagon in 79 and that had AC and power locks! Another neighbor that worked at the local Ford plant was getting pressure to quit driving his Chev truck to work (the plant made trucks) and bought a loaded Cougar, not as nice as a Cad but a fairly fancy car.   Now days its hard to find a new car that does not come standard with many of the features that the Cads and Lincolns were known for.  As far as current and recent cars not having any appeal I’m sure in the future there are going to be clubs devoted to cars like the K cars.  Can you imagine some 20 year old kid coming up to you someday and telling you that he was so lucky to find a mint 82 Aries wagon with only 150,000 actual miles on it with the ‘rare’ cassette deck option?   I wasn’t around then but what did people think of the original Mustangs in 64?  As cheaply as Ford built those things it was obvious those were supposed to be cheap throw away cars…. Look what they are worth now.      

TJ H
20664
StPaul/Mpls MN USA
73 Eldo convert
73 Eldo converts (parts)
75 Eldo
78 CDV
66 Mustang I6 coupe
97 Tahoe
05 Hemi Magnum
00 Chev 2500HD

EAM - CLC 17806

HELLO TJH:  I JUST FINISHED READING YOUR VERY INTERESTING THOUGHTS ON HOW TO STOP THE SLIDE IN INTEREST IN OLD CARS.  yOU DID MAKE A FEW VALID POINTS AND I DO AGREE THERE ARE SOME CHARACTERS OUT THERE THAT THINK ANTIQUE CARS FROM 1960 UP ARE NOT IN THEIR CLASS, BUT THOSE INDIVIDUALS ARE FAR AND FEW IN BETWEEN.  I STARTED DRIVING MY FIRST CAR WHEN I WAS A JUNIOR IN HIGH SCHOOL, A 1932 CHEVROLET CLUB COUPE VICTORIA WHICH MY DAD GAVE ME WHEN HE PURCHASED A 47 CHEV AND IF I ONLY HAD THAT 32 CHEV TODAY I WOULD HAVE MATCHED THAT WITH ANY OF THOSE GUYS CADDYS BECAUSE GM ONLY MANUFACTURED FORTY OF THEM ZT THAT TIME.  TODAY I HAVE A 76 CADDY CLUB COUPE DE VILLE, SILVER IT VERY GOOD CONDITION AND EVEN THOSE OLD TIMERS YOU REFERRED TO WERE QUITE INTERESTED IN LOOKING IT OVER.  THEY ALL HAD 8.2 CU ENGINES, HEI IGNITION, FRONT DISC BRAKES AND BURN REGULAR UNLEADED GAS AND ON TOP OF THAT IT LOOKS REAL NICE WITH SLEEK LINES.  SO IF THE GUYS YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT DONT THINK THESE ARE GOOD ENOUGH TO BE IN THEIR CLASS, WELL I SAY STAY WITH YOUR LEADED GAS, POINTS AND MECHANICAL BRAKES WHILE I SPEED UP TO ALL THE SHOWS WITH MY BEAUTIFUL ANTIQUE 76 CADILLAC.  KEEP YOUR CHIN UP, THESE PRIMADONNAS ARE NOT EVERYWHERE!  EAM

Joe 12138

WELL SAID, TJ!  Id like to add that the attitudes of many "old guard" car collectors and some clubs dont help to attract younger members. It really isnt that much different than it was 20, 30, or 40 years ago for younger people, who just cant afford to pay megabucks to get all chrome re-done, exact original paint colors special mixed, factory duplicate upholstery at $200/yd, plus spend thousands to rebuild yhe exact motor that came with the car. They still like their old car, and do the best they can within their means. People in their 20s and 30s usually have other expenses that are more pressing....growing families, college loans, buying homes, etc. etc. A 100 point concours car just is not a realistic priority for many at this stage of life. But that doesnt mean a love for cars cant exist!
    So, its no great incentive to join a car club to have your car (and hard work and most of your disposable income) picked at, run down, criticized, or ignored by others that you THOUGHT had the same interest. A hobby is supposed to be FUN!
    I believe thats why Goodguys, National Street Rod Assn, and other Multi-make clubs are gaining members at a faster rate than the CLC and others that historically insisted on 100percent originality regardless of cost or reason. There people get complimented on their innovativity or tastes, not run down, insulted or ignored.

Joe 12138

A bit of background..... I know how you feel! I dropped out of the LCOC (Lincoln and Continental Owners Club) at about your age. It seemed to me that if your car wasnt a 4 door convertible or had 12 cylinders, you were dirt under their feet! (I had a 59).

      Until recently, I had "only" 70s Cadillacs. None were anywhere near "judging" condition. But I liked em, and could afford them. Now, Im in my 50s. No kids in school. No loans. No big expenses. So I finally got some nicer (As in "more expensive") ones. Theres a 1950 mild custom series 62, a 1955 2 door hardtop (original and clc Senior class), and a 65 Deville convertible, and a BMW Z3 roadster. But I still have my 73 Helldorado Ragtop. Its got a 74 front clip, a 75 emgine, and resale red paint!

     Guess which one gets used and enjoyed the most?  Its the 73!  I can have fun with it, not worry about little things, and the judges can sit on a tack!

Richard Pope

Funny, I also have a 70s Eldo and BMW Z3 roady...RP

Art#22010

One more comment to all these opinions. I live 7 miles from Hershey and 20 miles from Carlise. The AACA Museum is but 6 miles away. This particular area is a hot bed of this hobby.
It runs the full sprectrum, age , cars and money. It would be difficult for anyone living here to think the hobby is not well
and well healed. As in all things, there is a season. Here the season never ends. One could wake up each Sat. morning and literally pick what part of this hobby he or she wishes to explore. The truth, you couldnt see it all. So my judgement as to the condition of the hobby, is shewed. From april 1st on you could visit Carlise each weekend, Corvetts, Chrylser , GM, Ford
right through Sept and never visit anthing else.  Art