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Oil for my old Flathead

Started by ERIC CLAUSEN, May 13, 2007, 08:42:03 PM

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ERIC CLAUSEN

Greetings everyone,
I have just finished rebuilding my 37 Flathead engine and read an article on the problems of the newer oils wearing out the idler gear
and lifters.
There are several options from different types of oils and additives.
Here in Oakland Ca. there aren't many good parts stores nearby I need some advice where I can get a good oil or break in additive
to put in my engine.
Any  suggestions?
Eric

35-709

Eric,
Check out the postings in the Technical/Authenticity Forums under "Synthetic Oil and Zinc".  Use the links below to familiarize yourself with what is going on these days with modern oils and the lack of ZDDP, you owe it to yourself and your engine.
                                                   
http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/flat_tappet_cam_tech/index.html     

Also check out the article on the C&LC Home Page titled "Oil Issues in Engines with Flat Tappet Camshafts" by using the "click here" link if you haven't already.

The additive you want is as close as your nearest GM dealer.  GM's E.O.S. (Engine Oil Supplement), part number 1052367, in the 16 oz. bottle, or GM camshaft and lifter prelube, part number 12345501, in a 4 oz. bottle are both good additives to use with every oil change.  Beware of SM or CJ-4  rated oils (the newest Rotella T is rated CJ-4), they are light on ZDDP.  SL or CI-4 rated oils, which are apparently being phased out by engine oil makers, are usually OK.

The additives you need are as close as your nearest GM dealer's parts room.  GM's  E.O.S. (Engine Oil Supplement), part number 1052367, in the 16 oz. bottle; or GM camshaft and lifter prelube, part number 12345501, in the 4 oz. bottle added to your oil in the proper amounts at oil change will give you the protection you need and used to get from the previously available oils.  Some oils still have adequate levels of ZDDP but they are often not as easy to come by at your local Wal-Mart or parts store.  Take some time to read the articles the links take you to.  Best of luck.
Geoff N. 
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

dadscad

Eric,

I submitted a request to Amsoil for their recommendation of the proper synthetic oil for your flat head Cadillac. Below is my question and their reply.

My question,

What would be the proper Amsoil motor oil for a newly
rebuilt 1937 Cadillac flat head motor? The motor has flat tappets and a
bronze idler gear turning the oil pump/distributor that are subject to
extreme wear if current new formulated petroleum oils are used. I would
think 0-30, 5-30 or 10-30 would be good choices, but I would like to
confirm this before suggesting them. Thanks, David

Their reply,

Thank you for contacting AMSOIL with your concerns.

In response to your inquiry, the best oil for this engine is the 15W-40
Diesel Marine Engine Oil (product code AME).

Thank you again for the opportunity to respond to your concerns.  As
always, please feel free to contact us again if we can be of further
assistance.

Sincerely,

Darryn Wallace
Senior Technical Service Specialist



Eric, Hope this is helpful,
David


Enjoy The Ride,
David Thomas CLC #14765
1963 Coupe deVille

John Washburn CLC 1067 Sadly deceased.

Eric,

The best bet for your new engine is the GM EOS addative, which has plenty of ZDDP. It comes in 4 oz bottles so you may need two.

Any GM dealer carries these, even Cadillac has a dealership in Oakland, so should not be a problem to obtain.
John Washburn
CLC #1067
1937 LaSalle Coupe
1938 6519F Series Imperial Sedan
1949 62 Series 4 Door
1949 60 Special Fleetwood
1953 Coupe DeVille
1956 Coupe DeVille
1992 Eldorado Touring Coupe America Cup Series

35-709

#4
Quote from: 1937ls on May 15, 2007, 08:47:25 PM
Eric,

The best bet for your new engine is the GM EOS addative, which has plenty of ZDDP. It comes in 4 oz bottles so you may need two.

Any GM dealer carries these, even Cadillac has a dealership in Oakland, so should not be a problem to obtain.

John,
I hope you will take the time to read the articles that I left links for in my post above. Please note ---- GM EOS comes in a 16 oz. bottle, GM Camshaft & Lifter Prelube comes in a 4 oz. bottle.  Either is fine to use. This link ----
http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html 
gives the amounts of ZDDP in EOS, and the amounts in Camshaft & Lifter Prelube as well as the amounts in many other oils, some of which are hard to find anymore.  It does require a little reading time.

OK, I'll do some of the work ....
GM Cam Lifter Prelube         5710     5876         29004         01/07     O/A     Blackstone
GM EOS Assembly Lube       5762    6221       8265       01/07    O/A    Blackstone
The first number for each is the Phosphorus, second number the Zinc, third number is the detergents in PPM ---- as you can see the Cam & Lifter Prelube has a LOT of detergents compared to the EOS.  I prefer to use the EOS.  Look at the list in the lnengineering link, I believe if you have 1100 to 1200 Phos. and that much Zinc (or more) in the oil you are using, you don't need an additive.

For a 4 quart oil change (5 with filter) the recommendations I have seen call for 1/3 to 1/2 bottle of EOS, OR, one 4oz. bottle of the GM Camshaft and Lifter Prelube.  If your engine requires 6 to 8 quarts then you would up the amounts slightly accordingly.  If you are adding ZDDP  to a car that (still) has a catalytic converter, be careful on the amounts you use because too much ZDDP has a deleterious affect on the converters ---- which is one reason it is being reduced.  Non-catalytic converter cars have no problem with a little overdose of ZDDP.
Geoff N.
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

ERIC CLAUSEN

Just wanted to thank everyone for being so helpfull.
I went to my GM dealer and got the EOS additive and am relleived.
I hate to ruin my engine work with something as simple as
an oil change.
once again, you Cadillac guys are the best!
Eric

John Washburn CLC 1067 Sadly deceased.

Geoff,

Sorry, was to lazy to look up the EOS amounts. I am well aware of the problem. Other oils are also good, such as those listed as "only for off road" or "racing oil". These still contain the amount of ZDDP that helps our old cars out.

Larry Steig's article was excellent, as were the articles in Skinned Knuckles, and the hot rod magazines.... One thing I am still pondering (thanks to Baxter Cutler) is why did we not see these failures in our Cadillac Flathead engines which used non detergent oils. Would have an additive like ZDDP prolonged the life of these engines?

Sorry for the confusion.

John Washburn
CLC #1067
John Washburn
CLC #1067
1937 LaSalle Coupe
1938 6519F Series Imperial Sedan
1949 62 Series 4 Door
1949 60 Special Fleetwood
1953 Coupe DeVille
1956 Coupe DeVille
1992 Eldorado Touring Coupe America Cup Series

35-709

"One thing I am still pondering (thanks to Baxter Cutler) is why did we not see these failures in our Cadillac Flathead engines which used non detergent oils."
I would like to hear an answer to that also.

"Would have an additive like ZDDP prolonged the life of these engines?"
My opinion is that it would have.
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

Bob Laughon #18623

I'm using Valvoline VR1 racing oil, SAE 30, API Service SJ.  Should I also use the additive, and if so, how much?

35-709

Quote from: Bob Laughon #18623 on July 16, 2007, 11:49:20 PM
I'm using Valvoline VR1 racing oil, SAE 30, API Service SJ.  Should I also use the additive, and if so, how much?

Bob,
Did you go to the links posted earlier in this thread such as ..... http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html
SL rated oils are generally OK, SM rated oils are generally not.  Valvoline VR1 20W-50 has adequate ZDDP, cannot speak for 30 weight as it is not listed, but being an SL rated oil it is probably OK.  If you are not running a catalytic converter a 1/2 bottle of EOS is good, but with your SL rated oil probably a 1/4 bottle "just to be sure" is no doubt sufficient, won't hurt ---- in my view.
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2