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Stolen parts on eBay and sad ending to '57 Eldorado #232

Started by Shane, May 23, 2007, 12:33:12 PM

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Shane

I knew about this for awhile but couldn't say anything until the investigation was done.
Well, car #232 is a goner.
It sat for 3 decades untouched until a few months ago when somebody deceided to swipe the interior including the steering wheel and dash, all four complete doors, grill, trim, dual quad air cleaner etc...pretty much a shell now.
The thief sold them on eBay. If you bought '57 Eldorado Brougham parts off eBay in the last 3-4 months from California, they were more than likely off this car. They found a whole LOAD of classic car parts in addition to the Cadillac parts. If you are a savy eBayer, you can do a past sales search and you can find them. I know the detective who found the parts and caught the guy. They recovered one door and some trim. That's it.
If you have any questions or concerns about something you bought, contact:
Det. Ron Greene at Los Angeles Sherrif Dept. (626)350-4524 direct line. Good guy and easy to talk to.
I highly doubt anyone will return the parts but it's a nice thought. EBay might be helping recover the parts.
Here is the car from November of '06. In one peice.
There is still a good collection of Cadillacs in the old timers yard. 6 - 47 convertibles, 2 Pinna Ferra (sp?) '60 Eldorados.

Bob Hoffmann CLC#96

Shane, tried to email you. It was rejected. Please contact me directly. Thanks, Bob CLC#96
1968 Eldorado slick top ,white/red interior
2015 Holden Ute HSV Maloo red/black interior.
             
Too much fun is more than you can have.

FLM


tozerco

Now it will be interesting to see what Ebay, who have a lead on who sold the parts, who bought them and what their contact information is, actually do about it. Don't you have a law in the US about profiting from the proceeds of crime (which is what Ebay have done in this case)?

Any old car nut's worst nightmare is waking up to find those impossible to replace parts gone to someone like Mr or Mrs "onlyoemparts". Wonder does that stand for "only other enthusiasts motor parts"?

John Tozer
John Tozer
#7946

'37 7513
'37 7533

Davidinhartford

If there is a paper trail that leads right to who bought they stolen parts, then the Police CAN go recover them.     The buyers will have to take the guy to civil court to get their money back, but they are not entitled to keep the stolen parts even though they paid for them.   

Yes, it will take longer to tracethe buyers thru email addresses, but with Ebays help it should go faster.     The Police can get a judge to issue a warrant to get the info from Ebay.     

Car parts or Picassos, it shouldn't make any difference.   Stolen merchandise is stolen merchandise.

Stampie

I believe the word you guys are looking for is Fence.

Stampie
If... the machine of government... is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law.  ~Henry David Thoreau, On the Duty of Civil Disobediance, 1849

If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.  ~Louis D. Brandeis

Paul Zanetti



The seller, (ebay member name) 'onlyoemparts 'can be located on ebay's sitemap. Click then go to 'find a member'.

A few messages from cadillac enthusiats may make him realise how unpopular his business practices are.

Additionally, click on this ebay member's 'feedback' page and you locate the 'buyers'. Messages may be sent to the buyer by concerned Cadillac La Salle Club members, stating that the items bought are the proceeds of a criminal act, and therefore do not actually belong to the buyer. This revelation to the buyer may help retrieve some parts from honest buyers.

Some buyers' ebay member's names who purchased:

aurelie-louise (NY)
metacomp (NY)
azblink (AZ)
t-alfa (Denmark)
ellioti123 (Canada)
thomasb0726 (USA)
kustom52 (WI)
maglieri99 (Australia)
tulipps4ubzex (AZ)
dream_cars_co_uk (UK)
jlg177 (NY)
kenneth5509 (USA)

Hope some of the parts acn be retrieved and the buyers are indeed enthusiasts who have a conscience.

Paul Zanetti
Australia


























1959 Eldorado Biarritz
www.zanetti.net.au

Davidinhartford

I recognize at least one of the buyers names as a regular here.

Big Fins

While it is true that a very rare car has be destroyed maliciously.  :o The chances of recovering ALL of the parts from this car are very slim.
Why would you want to prosecute the unwary buyers of these parts, they might have needed to complete a long time restoration of their own cars?  ???
If this car sat for 30 years with no one paying it any attention, why not utilize what it has to give? Now all of a sudden you're ready to hang the buyers and try to force them to give up what they bought, and go through a lengthy battle to recover the money spent. Which is also very slim.
Prosecute the seller for dealing in stolen merchandise.
#232 will never be complete again with it's original items. A car of it's rarity should have been stored in a more secure location. Not out in the open to just dissolve into the ground.

Just my .02 cents worth.

Fins
Sec/Tres MCLC

Bob Hoffmann CLC#96

Big Fins, I couldn't agree with you more. I seen it dozens of times in person & read it many times in Old Cars Weekly. It's always the same situation.  Reclusive, unfriendly  usually older guy, bought the cars years ago when they were cheap used cars. Where does he store them? OUTSIDE, of course! Does he ever do anything with them? OF COURSE NOT! The vandels & thieves have a field day. When do they get sold?  By the people handling the estate, if they're smart enough not to junk them. Been there too many times, Bob
1968 Eldorado slick top ,white/red interior
2015 Holden Ute HSV Maloo red/black interior.
             
Too much fun is more than you can have.

tozerco

"Hell mister! You weren't usin' that money that's just been lyin' around in your account for years and years. You're just gunna die and leave it behind so I'll take it!"

Are you guys for real??????


John Tozer
John Tozer
#7946

'37 7513
'37 7533

Lance

      ??? ??? It may be extremely frustrating that these unfriendly old guys don't want to part with there treasures , but how can that possibly make it right for some scumbag to profit from their theft .
Lance

Big Fins

Quote from: Lance on June 02, 2007, 03:56:30 AM
     ??? ??? It may be extremely frustrating that these unfriendly old guys don't want to part with there treasures , but how can that possibly make it right for some scumbag to profit from their theft .
Lance

Lance and John,

I never said it was right that the car was stripped and profited off of. I was saying that if this car was really a rare and valued treasure, it should have been stored as such. You are not going to change the way society thinks.
If I were to leave my '59 outside overnight, when I woke up half of it would have been stolen, if not snatched up by a tow truck in the middle of the night.
And if I want to leave my money in the bank and die with it there, that's my business. Not for you to come along and take it. But it is being held securely, or so you might think. But leaving a rare car out to rot in the weather is just inviting it to be be stolen. This is 2007 folks, not 1950 anymore. Think about it.

Davidinhartford

Why would you want to prosecute the unwary buyers of these parts, they might have needed to complete a long time restoration of their own cars?


Nobody said prosecute the buyers.    Prosecute the seller.     But the buyers should return the parts to the rightful owner.     Just because you need them for your car shouldn't relieve your conscience.

Yes there are rare cars sitting that should be restored.     But maybe that guy spotted this car sitting somewhere waiting to be junked?     He may have bought it and kept it on his property to prevent it from going to the scrapyard.     Maybe he didn't have the funds to do a restoration right away?     

I see a few nice Cadillacs in my area that are used as daily drivers and parked outside.   I cringe and think :  Damn I wish they'd park that car out front forsale so hopefully a Cadillac buff like myself car save it and give it a second life as a pampered car.    But should I sneek onto their property and hotwire the car to steal it and bring it home?

I don't think so.

If you bought the stolen parts, do the right thing and turn them over to the Police.     Then go after Paypal or whoever you used to get your money back.


t-alfa

Hi everyone
I did not know that it was stolen parts I was bidding on at e-bay - I wont pay for these parts-thanks for the warning.
By the way is there any who has a front lower bumper and the rear corners for a 1957 coupe de ville.

Have a nice summer everyone
t-alfa

wm link

Certainly no bidders knew or suspected stolen parts.  I  have not heard any OFFICIAL conformation on this situation, I will however,  set aside the few items I purchased until OFFICIAL conformation is heard (from USA authorities). I have just emailed the seller for his explanation.

The Tassie Devil(le)

Quote from: wm link on June 05, 2007, 02:18:47 PM
Certainly no bidders knew or suspected stolen parts.  I  have not heard any OFFICIAL conformation on this situation, I will however,  set aside the few items I purchased until OFFICIAL conformation is heard (from USA authorities). I have just emailed the seller for his explanation.

G'day wm link,

I am not sure what your legislation is on this issue, but down here, anything that was purchased that had been stolen, even though the buyer wasn't aware of it being stolen, remains the property of the original legal owner.

I do hope that the matter can be resolved, and in a manner that is fair to all, except the perpetrator of the crime.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

David King (kz78hy)

I have been thinking about this for a while now and have decided to post.  There seems to be a lot of amateur detectives among our ranks who also enjoy Cadillac’s. 

The first thing to remember is; we have Shane’s original posting making the claim that a person’s property has been stolen and sold over ebay piece by piece.  So far, I’ve seen nothing to confirm that this is the case.

If it is true, I’m sure there will be some notification to the buyers of these parts and what happens next is anyone's best guess.

Now it seems odd that a stolen car and the subsequent parting out of it were done over a 4-month period without any issue.  It was done in broad daylight and in plain view of anyone on ebay.  I doubt the police required that much time to figure this out if that was what was truly going on.  If it were, then why continue to expose honest people to something the police know to be wrong over that amount of time?  No entrapment here.  Just shut him down by arresting him. 

Also, if this activity were illegal and ebay found out about it, ebay would shut him down immediately and remove his account and mark it as such.  So far his account is in good standing.

This episode is full of victims if it turns out to true.  The first is the original owner, hopefully he as insurance to mitigate the loss of the car.  A car of this value should be insured.   The second are all the people who purchased parts for their use who could be out the parts and the expense to acquire them.  I wonder how these parts would be returned.  My opinion would be they are FOB my garage and any and all return costs are someone else’s or they stay where they are.

Anyone who has every purchased a used part could be in this position, and it is not very much fun.  All of these parts are very expensive, so giving them up will require more than one person’s claim that they were obtained through theft.  That’s why the legal system is there and I’m sure it will work.

David King
David King
CLC 22014  (life)
1958 Eldorado Brougham 615
1959 Eldorado Brougham 56- sold
1960 Eldorado Brougham 83- sold
1998 Deville d'Elegance
1955 Eldorado #277
1964 Studebaker Commander
2012 Volt
CLCMRC benefactor 197

Director and Founder, Eldorado Brougham Chapter
Past President, Motor City Region

Rare Parts brand suspension parts Retailer via Keep'em Running Automotive

Shane

Quote from: kz78hy on June 05, 2007, 09:41:43 PM
I have been thinking about this for a while now and have decided to post.  There seems to be a lot of amateur detectives among our ranks who also enjoy Cadillac’s. 

The first thing to remember is; we have Shane’s original posting making the claim that a person’s property has been stolen and sold over ebay piece by piece.  So far, I’ve seen nothing to confirm that this is the case.

If it is true, I’m sure there will be some notification to the buyers of these parts and what happens next is anyone's best guess.

Now it seems odd that a stolen car and the subsequent parting out of it were done over a 4-month period without any issue.  It was done in broad daylight and in plain view of anyone on ebay.  I doubt the police required that much time to figure this out if that was what was truly going on.  If it were, then why continue to expose honest people to something the police know to be wrong over that amount of time?  No entrapment here.  Just shut him down by arresting him. 

Also, if this activity were illegal and ebay found out about it, ebay would shut him down immediately and remove his account and mark it as such.  So far his account is in good standing.

This episode is full of victims if it turns out to true.  The first is the original owner, hopefully he as insurance to mitigate the loss of the car.  A car of this value should be insured.   The second are all the people who purchased parts for their use who could be out the parts and the expense to acquire them.  I wonder how these parts would be returned.  My opinion would be they are FOB my garage and any and all return costs are someone else’s or they stay where they are.

Anyone who has every purchased a used part could be in this position, and it is not very much fun.  All of these parts are very expensive, so giving them up will require more than one person’s claim that they were obtained through theft.  That’s why the legal system is there and I’m sure it will work.

David King

Interesting attitude to take.
I'll just touch on few of your points.
First call Det. Greene. Have doubts? He'll gladly fill you in on all your doubts. When and if you do, ask him about the other classic cars they caught him with. From what I understand a few already have called to confirm.

Second, it wasn't over a 4 month time frame. Parted out in 2 nights on a property surround by trees, a locked and solid fence. Police found out, took 3 weeks to put it together and busted him. Not easy putting stolen parts with no numbers to a shell of a car. They need proof other than somebody pointing it out. And guess what happened when they did catch him? He CONFESSED to the entire thing. Stealing & parting it out, eBay sales, etc...
3 weeks start to finish. That damn quick for the police.
And have you ever tried to deal with eBay on any issue? Worse than the goverment. Takes alittle time. How eBay plans to deal with it remain to be seen but they are working on it. PayPal has set their system up for just such an instance. We'll see...

Third, an insured project car? You've got to be kidding me?
Think that Eldorado in the orange grove from a few weeks ago is insured?
Are all your or your friends project cars insured? Was that Dueseberg Leno bought out of NYC was insured for the 60-70 years it sat the garage? I think not.
This is a LOCKED storage yard with a solid 8' fence. Think of how many car people keep their cars in the same type of situation. Insured or not, doesn't make it right. 

Fourth and final, your FOB comment makes me wonder. That is a really poor attitude.
Be a different story if it was your stuff that got stolen and was sold on eBay. But then your project cars are insured right? Try and get your insurnace company to pay out on a project car. HA! Good luck! Enough trouble getting them to pay on a new car. 
Old guy or not, cranky or not, NOBODY has the right just take what they want. I don't care if he paints it pink, fills with flowers and it rots into the ground, it's his to do so with. A shame but it's his to do so.
Maybe it was his retirement fund, who knows, but a locked fence means stay out. End of story.
True there are victims on both sides but not offering to return knownly stolen parts is just as bad taking them in the first place.
Sue the thief, wait for restitution, etc. There are ways of recovering your lost money. That is the legal way. Not just keeping them.
You are forgetting the original victim. 
It seems to me you are trying to justify the missing parts as tough luck.
And it's not my claim, it's the LA County auto theft task force claim. Seeing you are the one with so many doubts, calling Det. Greene would be your best bet.
His number is 626-350-4524. His direct line at the station.

tozerco

Shane,

I think your post pretty well says it all! Except.....

I have no doubt that a lot of the comments that have been made here about "the cranky old guy..." etc. could have been made about the person that I bought my '37 off. In the eyes of many of the so called experts in this hobby (and what other hobby has got as many of THEM as old car collecting???) it was a "basket case" and didn't warrant a second look, let alone restoration. Well, I now know that there are probably two of them left in the world and I, for one, am GRATEFUL to the party that shut it up in an old shed for years until I could come along and buy it off him.

One of these days when it is back on the road in all its finery, I hope lots of others will be grateful too.


John Tozer
John Tozer
#7946

'37 7513
'37 7533