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Author Topic: 1969 Cadillac Station Wagon - to be at the 2007 grand national  (Read 2337 times)

Kevin Wiles

  • Guest
I have a 1969 Cadillac Station Wagon, it was bought new in 69 as a wagon at a Cadillac dealership.  However it did not leave the assembly line as a wagon but instead probably as a sedan hardtop.  For the 2007 Grand National, what class would I be in?  I’m hoping not modified as they are not judged, correct?  Would it be T8 or P22 ….or T99 or P99 ??? please help.. I have other questions too, I will just ask this one first…. Thanks. Kevin

go to cadillacstationwagon dot com and see 1969 for a pic of the car

Offline Tom Hall 7485

  • Posts: 388
  • historian; collector of dealer, zone, factory data
Re: 1969 Cadillac Station Wagon - to be at the 2007 grand national
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2007, 03:52:55 PM »
To determine whether you want to be in the T classes (Touring Division) or the P classes (Primary Division), you need to estimate the likely score of your car.  If you score too high, you get disqualified from Touring Division.  At last year's awards banquet, we had the somewhat unusual situation of an announcer announcing a couple of disqualifications because the cars were too good to be in Touring Division.  (Personally, I would rather not have disqualifications announced at the banquet.)  If your car is likely to score in the 90s, you are safer with Primary Division, but you are also likely to be up against some pretty stiff competition.  See the 2007 international membership directory at pages 50-51.

Assuming that your car is a converted Sedan de Ville, it doesn't go into professional cars, unless the conversion was to make the car a poor man's hearse, ambulance or other professional car - not likely on that standard wheelbase.  Your VIN starts with "B" if you've got a hardtop SDV as the basis.  On the other hand, if your car is on the commercial chassis (156-inch wheelbase), it could very well go into a professional car class 99.

If the wagon conversion was done by a recognized coachbuilder when the car was reasonably new, it should not suffer authenticity deductions for that conversion and it can be  judged in the regular classes (as opposed to modified).  However, if the conversion was not done when the car was reasonably new, or it was not done by an approved coachbuilder, your car could suffer a mandatory 22-point (11-point net) deduction for non-authentic body.  If you have them, you will want to take papers to show the judges who made the body.

At what dealership was your car displayed when new?
Tom Hall, CLC Member 7485, Lifetime member since the mid-1990s.

Kevin Wiles

  • Guest
Re: 1969 Cadillac Station Wagon - to be at the 2007 grand national
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2007, 04:26:19 PM »
I have the original bill of sale and where he got the lien for the car in the year 1970 and this loan was in the amount of over 9500.00 ... can't remember the name of the dealership but I have that info at home.  This dealer was in North Fort Myers Florida.  Dealership name Brown or Braun comes to mind.  I will make sure and post later.   But indeed it does show on the original title AND bill of sale with "SWG" as the body type.  The car was DELIVERED to the original owner Supreme Court Judge William Lamar Rose as a special order station wagon.   Do you think copies of this documentation will suffice to be judged in the regular (t-8 or p-22) class?

Offline Tom Hall 7485

  • Posts: 388
  • historian; collector of dealer, zone, factory data
Re: 1969 Cadillac Station Wagon - to be at the 2007 grand national
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2007, 06:24:34 PM »
Your papers may help me solve a puzzle about Braun Cadillac, Inc., which was in Orlando and apparently in Ft. Myers after Hough, if what you're posting here is correct.  If you have the original Protect-O-Plate, warranty booklet, window sticker, or dealer invoice, it will help.  Please contact me about that at chromebumpers@netzero.net. 

You have a paper to show that your car had the coachwork done when it was new.  If your car is the Nutmeg Firemist car on the other web site (black vinyl top, roof rack, cleats on the tailgate), this car should not go into Class 99; it's not a professional car.  It's based on a Sedan de Ville or Calais four-door hardtop.  The issue you may need to be able to talk about is who did the bodywork.  That's difficult to determine from the styling.  It may have been done by the dealership, which should not be a problem for you.  In close calls, the benefit of the doubt is supposed to go to the exhibitor.  You should not receive a deduction for non-authentic body.  Anyway, the more advance notice the Chief Judge or the Deputy Chief Judge can get on such questions, the better.  Don't wait until contest day for a ruling from one of them.

Shame on Justice Rose for putting so much on credit!
Tom Hall, CLC Member 7485, Lifetime member since the mid-1990s.

Kevin Wiles

  • Guest
Re: 1969 Cadillac Station Wagon - to be at the 2007 grand national
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2007, 07:04:49 PM »
Hi I got home to look up the info on the dealership for you.  It is called "Buddy Braun Cadillac, Fort Myers FL"    I was incorrect above by stating that it was NORTH fort myers, but that is where mr rose, the original owner lived.   The proof I have about the dealership is simply the dealership license plate is on the front of the car, and that Mr. Rose lived nearby, and the bank was in North Fort Myers florida. "Lee County Bank"

Offline Stampie

  • Posts: 298
  • Name: M. Stamps
Re: 1969 Cadillac Station Wagon - to be at the 2007 grand national
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2007, 01:32:09 AM »
Kevin I just wanted to say that I look forward to seeing you and your Wagon again.  I'll be at the GN and would love to look over that beauty in more detail this time.

Stampie
If... the machine of government... is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law.  ~Henry David Thoreau, On the Duty of Civil Disobediance, 1849

If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.  ~Louis D. Brandeis

Offline Tom Hall 7485

  • Posts: 388
  • historian; collector of dealer, zone, factory data
Re: 1969 Cadillac Station Wagon - to be at the 2007 grand national
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2007, 12:11:54 PM »
Okay, thank you.  If you have the Protect-O-Plate (plastic credit card-looking thingie for warranty administration), please contact me by e-mail at chromebumpers@netzero.net.  It contains a five or six-digit number I am looking for regarding the dealer.  Starts with "3".  This would also be on the window sticker or perhaps written into the back of the Owner's Protection Plan booklet.

Your car was delivered to Justice Rose early in 1970?
Tom Hall, CLC Member 7485, Lifetime member since the mid-1990s.

Kevin Wiles

  • Guest
Re: 1969 Cadillac Station Wagon - to be at the 2007 grand national
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2007, 01:24:42 PM »
sorry tom i do not have the window sticker, warranty booklet, or protectoplate, and it is a shame, but yes this wagon was delivered early 1970... not sure why not  in the year 69 but maybe because the conversion delayed it.

Kevin Wiles

  • Guest
Re: 1969 Cadillac Station Wagon - to be at the 2007 grand national
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2007, 04:18:58 PM »
yeah Stampie I'm looking forward to seeing you again and talkin' about 472's.  This time you'll see my grandfathers black 59 coupe deville as well

Offline Stampie

  • Posts: 298
  • Name: M. Stamps
Re: 1969 Cadillac Station Wagon - to be at the 2007 grand national
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2007, 11:35:27 PM »
I'm going off memory here but I would say high Touring.

Stampie
If... the machine of government... is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law.  ~Henry David Thoreau, On the Duty of Civil Disobediance, 1849

If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.  ~Louis D. Brandeis

 

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