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1960 ignition problem

Started by Tom Hitchcock, June 17, 2007, 08:50:38 PM

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Tom Hitchcock

A previous owner of my 1960 Coupe de Ville removed the coil and installed some sort of magnito device that was supposed to deliver a hotter and longer duration duration spark. I don't know, but I believe he also either disabled or removed the ballast resistor as I go through points in only a few hundred miles! 

Not long ago I decided to reinstate the coil system and add an electronic ignition kit [thus doing away with the points] ...the type that is completely accomodated within the distributor. My questiion for you electrically minded guys is this: Do I still need the ballast resistor with the electronic set-up?  I'd sure hate to burn the new elecyronic ignition out through ignorance!

Tom - 2212
Tom Hitchcock - 2212
1960 Coupe de Ville
1997 Eldorado Touring Coupe

George UK

The voltage of the coil determines the ballast resistor resistance. If the coil is 7 volt you need a 5 volt resistor.etc.
The burnt points are likely an incorrect capacitor [condensor].

walt #23510

David,
  The instructions that came with your distributor module should cover this issue.I use a Petronics module in my 1955 Coupe,and with it the resistor is bypassed.Along with their module,I use their coil and wires.Call Petronix,they should be happy to help you!....walt...tulsa,ok

Mike Simmons 938

If I remember the Pertronix instructions correctly, you maintained the original wiring, utilizing the resistor, to the coil. But, you energized the distributor (red wire??) with 12 volts , most easily accessed from the 12V side of the resistor. Mike Simmons (938)

Tom Hitchcock

Thanks to one and all for your helpful suggestions.  The company [Pertronix] says: "A resistor wire or  ballast resistor may or may not be included in the original equipment. They are not to be changed in any way with the installation of an ignitor system."  It pays to ask the maker! 

Say, one more thought. How many of you know the difference between a condensor and a ballast resistor?  According to what I've been told a ballast resistor's function is to drop the current to the points when the engine is running.  At the time your engine is cranking, a seperate wire gives the points the full 12 volts, bypassing the ballast resistor. But, when the engine fires and you release the ignition key from "start" to "on" , all the power to the points now passes through the ballast resistor, thus preventing arcing and frying the points.  Most likely all Cadillacs of the '60s were equipped with ballast resistors, but who knows for sure?
Tom Hitchcock - 2212
1960 Coupe de Ville
1997 Eldorado Touring Coupe

The Tassie Devil(le)

Quote from: Tom Hitchcock on June 19, 2007, 05:04:51 PM

Say, one more thought. How many of you know the difference between a condensor and a ballast resistor?  According to what I've been told a ballast resistor's function is to drop the current to the points when the engine is running.  At the time your engine is cranking, a seperate wire gives the points the full 12 volts, bypassing the ballast resistor. But, when the engine fires and you release the ignition key from "start" to "on" , all the power to the points now passes through the ballast resistor, thus preventing arcing and frying the points.  Most likely all Cadillacs of the '60s were equipped with ballast resistors, but who knows for sure?

G'day Tom,

With any car that runs a Resistor in the wire from the Ignition Switch to the coil, (most GM cars) that car uses an 8 volt coil, and when the engine is being started, 12 volts is supplied to the coil from the Starter Motor only the cranking is taking place.

In the case of Ford, they use a Resistance Wire, and don't use the 12 Volt boost.

With Coils, there are two types, and if you look at the bottoms of a coil, it will either be stamped "Use with Resistor" of plain.   The Plain one is a 12 Volt Coil, and the Resistor one is an 8 Volt type, but will take 12 volts, but if used as a 12 volt coil, its' life is usually shortened.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

george UK

Technically the ballast resistor drops the voltage to the ignition coil not the points.
  The starter takes such a lot of current when operating and so the coil is fed with full 12 volts. That 12v  is reduced to 7 or 8  by the starter consumption, with the key in start position.
   When the key is released to run, the switch diverts to the resistor wire or ballast resistor and current now travells through the resistance and reduces the 12 volts to whatever the coil requires to operate correctly. 8 volt 7 volts whatever.

The condensor on the other hand helps collapse the coil primary field, and assists the points function. A faulty condensor can wear out a set of points in no time. The points can be checked by noticing were the arc builds up, either on the positive or negative side of the points contacts, this gives an indication of the condensor capacity. Too many micro's and the build up will be on the positive contact too few and the build up will be on the negative contact. Usually the condensor fails with too few.

Tom Hitchcock

George UK:  Many thanks indeed for your clarification in words even I can understand...I'm no Thomas Edison!  Thanks too from down under for your thoughts and words of wisdom. All appreciated.

Over the weekend I was again discussing the subject with a couple of Cadillac experts and both seemed certain that there was NO ballast resistor anywhere on the 1960 Cadillac.  I trust their judgement and level of experience but can't help but feel the resistor may be there...just called something else, or hidden from sight.  Another collector claimed that ballast resistors were pretty much standard on all Chrysler products [and maybe Fords] of the '60s but not GM cars.  I don't know. Maybe he's right too? 
Tom Hitchcock - 2212
1960 Coupe de Ville
1997 Eldorado Touring Coupe

George UK

I just checkrd your wiring diagram.
The ignition switch should have 5 wires.
A red wire for Bat.
Ayellow to accessories,
violet to the solenoid.
Then a pink wire and a fibreglass covered wire from th ignition switch terminal marked ign.
The pink terminates at the fuse box. The fibreglass covered wire is your resistor wire.
The positive side of the coil should have this wire connected plus a yellow connected to the same positive terminal.
The yellow fires the car in the start position of key.
The fibreglass covered wire takes over when your key is in run position
The negative side of the coil is a black wire that goes to the distributor [points]

Tom Hitchcock

GeorgeUK

That's it!  You have thoroughly sorted this out. I'm sure I will have no additional doubts as to what it is we are working with, or how this applies to my project as stated in the opening message.  Thank you once again!
Tom Hitchcock - 2212
1960 Coupe de Ville
1997 Eldorado Touring Coupe