Driving Vintage Cars in Winter

[Mike Shawgo]

I'm wondering how some of you feel about driving a vintage Cadillac during the winter (in areas of snow) as more or less a daily driver.  I used to have a 1978 Seville in near-mint condition that I drove during the winter in Illinois.  However, after being chastised by friends and family for driving a vintage car in snow, I felt guilty about using it as a daily driver, sold it and bought a "winter" car which is not a vintage car.   (I already have a vintage Eldorado convertible for summer, and decided it wasn't practical to have two "summer only" cars.)

Now I find myself eyeing vintage Cadillacs on ebay, wondering if I could justify owning one that I could drive during the winter.

How do you feel?  As Cadillac-Lasalle Club members, do you feel we have a obligation to preserve vintage cars which are in good condition, not drive them in winter as daily drivers, or can we give ourselves permission to drive and enjoy them, even in winter?

--Mike
#20545

[homeonprunehill]

11-07-07
MIKE, go for it. Just be sure to wash it good on the under-side, often. Good Luck,JIM

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Geez Mike,

A Vintage Car is one that is older than 1929.

Anything newer is just an old car.

Bruce.

PS.   Some old cars are better than others though.

[Bill Gauch #23121]

You could always buy something that is less desirable, like a 4-door. The problem isn't the snow, really. It is the salt and sand on the roads. I would think, whatever you got, if you put a real good coat of wax on it and got a car wash every time it went above freezing, you wouldn't do too much damage. Actually, as long as you can somehow clean the wheel-wells, you would reduce your damage to a minimum. You would still be subject to chipping paint from sand though. Although, in my state the risk of sand damage runs until June before they sweep the streets.

[Mark]

The salt, especially salty slush gets into every crevice causing corrosion and damage.  It will seep under your door sills, residue on your feet will get into your carpets and eat the floors.  It will drip into your fenders and doors, splash up behind your quarter panels, into your door, hood & deck lid jambs - everywhere. 

Pretty much no matter what you do the salt willl cause damage.  And then of course some idiot will slide into you on an icy day. 

[TJ Hopland]

I have a 78 CDV that I originally bought for $800 to part out.  It didnt look like a lost cause but had the typical for its age and being outside faded paint, cracked top, and cracked fillers, rust under the top and chrome on the fender, and headliner hanging down.  It also started once and died then wouldnt restart.   Guy had been trying to sell it for 2 years.  Started at $2500.  I got it to a friends and up on the lift and found that for the most part the frame and floors were in great shape.  I ended up fixing a bunch of little things like rusted out brake and fuel lines. Did a complete brake job (including hoses), tune up, belts hoses, and a couple of new tires. Spent around $900 in parts (not counting labor some I did, some retail, some trades) over a month or so and drove it all winter and spring.   I have a convert that is my summer car and my wife has a 66 mustang plus we both have newer cars.   I have had an ad on Craigs List since spring with all the details (both good and bad) and pictures along with an offer to send many more detailed pictures. Asking $1500 because I have no desire to loose money on the deal.  In 8 months I have had 0 real inquires (some about export and strange payments).  Last winter I picked up a 75 Eldo for $400 that looks alrignt but needs the same stuff to be a safe driver.  If I sell the deville I will get the eldo running since I like eldos better.  If not I will keep driving the deville till I feel I have got my value out of it and lower the price.  In my mind since I am offering it for sale if someone wants to 'save it' they can.  Same thing with the eldo I bought, it was for sale for over 6 months starting at $2000, I just couldnt resist when it got down to $400.   The thing that makes me cry is when I see about the demo derby cars.  Those guys travel around the country and pay real money, sometimes as high as $5k for a solid car.  Only good thing is many of them now Ebay the parts they dont need like trim and interior so at least other cars can be saved.

You mentioned you got another old car,  just think of things like the first gen Mustangs.  Those cars are pretty much crap across the board.  They were built to be cheap throw away cars. Look what they go for now.  I paid $1500 for one with no floors not running and think I got a great deal.  Just think someday some 'kid' is going to be at the gas station next to you not even giving your 70's cadillac a second look because him and all his buddies are going to be going ga ga over the 82 aeries K car he just got with the rare factory cassette option.  And what about the international Yugo club.......  Or what the first Prius' will be worth?

[DaveW]

Mike,

It would seem that only you can determine whether or not you have an obligation to preserve vintage cars.  Accordiing to the information on the "Learn About CLC" page, the club was initially founded to "encourage enthusiasts to maintain, preserve, and restore collectible Cadillacs....."

You could make the argument that by purchasing an old Cadillac and maintaining it to some level, even driving it in the winter, will leave the car in better condition than allowing someone else to have the car and give it sub-standard care.   You can also make the argument that if you did not purchase and drive the car it may have ended up in the junkyard sooner, therefore you are performing a service to the hobby.

What we think does not matter as much as how you feel about it.

Dave

[Mike #20545]

Good responses.  I'm just very conflicted about it, since when I had my 78 Seville (which took 1st place in its category at the Des Moines GN), I seemed to get a lot of looks and raised eyebrows when I said I used it as a daily driver, including in the winter.

Dave, I liked your comments--I guess even if I buy a car and drive it in the winter, it may last longer than if someone else bought it and didn't care for it (or turned it into a hot rod or something!).

--Mike
#20545

[OK]

I think it's great to drive an older car in the winter. It's a car, after all, and it's not like we have an obligation to treat them a particular way.  As long as you know what the elements might do and you're okay with that, I don't see the problem.  Some may raise eyebrows, but others will smile, and I'll bet the smiles outnumber the raised eyebrows.

[Johnny F #662]

Geez Mike,

A Vintage Car is one that is older than 1929.

Anything newer is just an old car.

Bruce.

PS.   Some old cars are better than others though.

Where is this written?

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Where is this written?

http://www.motorsm.com/classics/default.htm
GENERAL CLASSIFICATION:
    * 1900-1908 Veteran Cars
    * 1909-1930 Vintage Cars
    * 1931- Classic Cars
and
http://www.ivvcc.ie/
      Antique: pre 1905
      Veteran: 1905-1918
      Vintage: 1919-1930
      Post Vintage: 1931 â€" 1945
      Classic 1946 â€" 1982

Bruce

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

LOL, I searched it and found it "written" for you   Check out this link. Scroll down to the bottom and view the timeline bar

I like the USA version

The Antique Automobile Club of America defines an Antique car as over 25 years old.

This would bring the Average car in everyday use in Tasmania into the Antique category.

But, yes, we do have a LOT of brand new cars running around, but the older cars still stay on the roads as they don't rust away, or break down.

Bruce.

[harvey b]

hello all, reading the discussion on driving these older cars for winter,i live in P.E.I. Canada where we get a very harsh winter lots of snow lots of salt on the roads and not many older cars to choose from now,the crushers are getting them all.when i was younger we all used to put our"good" cars away for the winter and drive an old beater for the winter,it was a contest to see who could find the worst peice of crap to drive and last through the winter with it .but now i am older and have a new car too,i would like to do this again someday,not sure what my wife would think of this,she does not like booster cables?,if i was to do it again i would find the best old car i could find and have it rust checked really good and wash it often.the rust check is a good product for this type of deal.about 15 years ago i drove a 1961 chrysler windsor for the winter,kept it clean and rustproofed,it seemed to suffer no real effects of the salt,i think the big fins made it slice through the snow better .  Harvey Bowness

[Richard Sills - CLC #936]

In 1975, a family friend was ready to trade in a 1967 Coupe deVille that she had purchased new.  This car was in like-new condition with less than 30,000 miles on it.  It was Capri Aqua with a black vinyl roof, had been garage kept every night of its life, and regularly serviced by the Cadillac dealer.  My friend was offered a nominal trade-in value (about $700), and offered it to me for that price.  I really wanted the car, but had no garage to keep it in.  The car would have had to sit in my driveway.  Although I would have kept it clean and waxed, I lamented the fact that by sitting outdoors the car would eventually deteriorate to some degree.

So, I passed on the car, concerned that I could not provide as high a level of care as this car deserved.  As a result, my friend sold it to another friend who needed a car for his teenage daughter who was learning how to drive.  Within the next year, the car was involved in several major accidents, and within two years it was in the junkyard. 

The lesson I learned:  if you are a Cadillac enthusiast and find one that you want to drive, go ahead and do it!  Because you appreciate cars in general, and Cadillacs in particular, you will probably give that car a much better home than most people who are likely to wind up with it.

Richard

[Andrew Straw]

Hey, they drove them in winter in 1978.  Why not now? 

Andrew
21467

[Dan Reed]

Mike,

If you want to drive your Cadillac in the snow - drive it in the snow. After all, you are a CLC member and an admirer of old cars so I'm sure your one who cares for all of your cars. I live in PA and we certainly get snow. I drive my '56 Cadillac all year round, but I choose not  to in the snow. That's just my choice - I prefer to drive my modern all-wheel-drive car in snow for the added safety. I'm not sure if I lost traction in my '56 that anything would stop it from skidding until it hit something larger than itself

Dan

[harvey b]

hello all,another way to look at this scenario is that we are all getting older and we might not be around to drive that neat old car next winter ,so if it feels right do it by all means,i seem to be reading a lot of obiyuaries lately of people that i know.who cares what somebody will think,they wish they had a car like that to drive anyway.go for it i would,let us know what you decide on for next winters ride?myself i would prefer a 1959 eldo conv,with a ripped top,to let the fresh air in?,just kidding. thanks Harvey Bowness

[John Morris #23947]

I live in the beautiful west where there has never been a grain of salt used on the roads. I was unlucky enough to have gone to Pennsylvania for over 2 years starting up a small business. Besides the highest taxes, tolls, fines, fees, more laws, more rules, highest humidity, and trillions of hummingbird sized mosquitos that sound like squadrons of B-17s, the worst part was the horrible salt used by the hundreds of tons on the roads. 5 year old cars & trucks had gaping holes in the bodies. A few classics crept out of garages in summer, then vanished for the year. People thought 78 Caprices were classics!! I would NEVER drive a collector car in that crap, EVER! Even after the snow is gone the salt remains. Then it rains, salt gets thrown up, and the rot starts again year round. My undercarriage looked like it was frozen, there were so many salt crystals. Thank heavens I'm home.

[Davidinhartford]

I'm in Connecticut and I don't drive any classics in the winter.  As said, the road salt gets into every nook and cranny.    Especially those chrome rocker moldings.

I'll only take an old car out on a dry day.  And still only for a few miles.

I hate going on Ebay to find an old classic Cadillac I love, but to see rust bubbles all around the edges.  You just know it was used all winter.  Then when the bubbles began they decided to sell it.      At that point it is too late.

Preserving our cars for the next generation should be our goal.    Because as time goes by, each non-show car version of our car gets junked or parted out.   

If you want to drive a vintage Cadillac in the winter, buy a high mileage one with bad paint, faded top and probably would not have been restored by anyone in the future.

[Mike Shawgo]

There, see?  I was just about convinced I could go out and buy that mint condition 1980 Seville for my winter car, but then the last two posts sent my guilt into overdrive!

--Mike