exhaust system fit problem

[naifmakol]

Help, I purchased an entire exhaust system with resonators for my 1958 Cadillac fleetwood sixty special from one of the leading exhaust specialists who regularly advertises  in Hemmings. Everything fit perfectly until we got to the the tail pipes after the mufflers which hoop over the axle. The top of the hoop jammed up beyond the hanger that was designed to suspend it. Also the oval resonator on the gas filler side will not fit into the space as it seems like a round resonator would fit. So the hoop pipes won't fit and even if they did the oval resonators would not. The supplier is puzzled. I'm sure I can get hoop pipes made to fit the car locally, but are oval or round resonators correct for this application. Oh, also this is an air ride car previously converted to coil springs. Any suggestions? Thank you.
                                                                                                                  Naif

[Mike Josephic CLC #3877]

Help, I purchased an entire exhaust system with resonators for my 1958 Cadillac fleetwood sixty special from one of the leading exhaust specialists who regularly advertises  in Hemmings. Everything fit perfectly until we got to the the tail pipes after the mufflers which hoop over the axle. The top of the hoop jammed up beyond the hanger that was designed to suspend it. Also the oval resonator on the gas filler side will not fit into the space as it seems like a round resonator would fit. So the hoop pipes won't fit and even if they did the oval resonators would not. The supplier is puzzled. I'm sure I can get hoop pipes made to fit the car locally, but are oval or round resonators correct for this application. Oh, also this is an air ride car previously converted to coil springs. Any suggestions? Thank you.
                                                                                                                  Naif

Naif:

If you bought the system from a guy in Florida who sells stainless systems -- you have
my symphathy.  Sorry you're having a problem.

I bought one of his systems and it had major fitting problems plus it sounded like a
flat head ford with "glas packs".  Alas, not all of these guys sell systems that do as they
advertise.  He too, "could not understand" why my system didn't fit.

I finally gave up and had a custom made system from a local guy fitted that works great. 
The system I bougnt from him is sitting in my basement -- maybe I'll make a modern
art masterpiece from it.

Good luck!

Mike

[Philippe M. Ruel]

I share Mike's experience with the same supplier. My 1952 stainless exhaust system had to be modified (cut and bent in some places) to fit well. Its sound is good at high speeds but quite noisy with engine idling, although I asked for the "as silentful as possible" product line.

If you live in the US, my advice is "don't touch anything, see if you can send it back and get your money back". I couldn't do so because it was an overseas order, with go-and-back shipping charges / customs duties exceeding parts cost.

[Roger Zimmermann]

Naif:

If you bought the system from a guy in Florida who sells stainless systems -- you have
my symphathy.  Sorry you're having a problem.


Mike

This supplier is not advertising anymore in Hemmings. Therefore, he bought from the other one! This one is also cooking with water. Exhaust pipes from 57 to 64 models are running along the frame. If there is a small error at the beginning of the line, it's impossible to have a correct fit.

[76eldo]

Unbelievable, that this guy has been selling mis-fitting stuff for at least 25 years.

People like his ads, I believe his name is Crapitch?

Take the whole mess to a muffler shop and have them re-bend and re-fit it.

Live and learn,

Brian

[Mike Josephic CLC #3877]

Unbelievable, that this guy has been selling mis-fitting stuff for at least 25 years.

People like his ads, I believe his name is Crapitch?

Take the whole mess to a muffler shop and have them re-bend and re-fit it.

Live and learn,

Brian

Unforunately, stainless is very difficult to bend for most local shops.  They really
should stop accepting ads from this guy and put him on notice that he is
selling "bogus" goods and shut him down.  Just my opinion.  I spent $1,200
some years ago for a worthless system.  I tried to sell it and not even a bite
for a few hundred bucks.  Mike

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Take the whole mess to a muffler shop and have them re-bend and re-fit it.     Brian   

G'day Brian,

It is almost impossible for anyone to re-bend an Exhaust System that has already been made up.   Stainless is worse.

And the only real way to make something fit is to physically start to fit it, then stress and strain it to try and get it to go, or cut it, and re-weld it to where it fits.

I don't know of any Muffler Shop that would want to attempt to "Fix up" some other Shop's misfitting work.

It would probably be cheaper in the long run to use the already in possession of Mufflers, and have a shop custom build the new pipes.   Some of the original new stuff might be useable, but it doesn't take much to be out of shape at the end of 15 feet of pipe.

Bruce.

[Roger Zimmermann]

Unbelievable, that this guy has been selling mis-fitting stuff for at least 25 years.

People like his ads, I believe his name is Crapitch?

Take the whole mess to a muffler shop and have them re-bend and re-fit it.

Live and learn,

Brian

Unforunately, stainless is very difficult to bend for most local shops.  They really
should stop accepting ads from this guy and put him on notice that he is
selling "bogus" goods and shut him down.  Just my opinion.  I spent $1,200
some years ago for a worthless system.  I tried to sell it and not even a bite
for a few hundred bucks.  Mike

As I wrote some days ago, the company in Florida is no more advertising in Hemmings, since a long time. In my opinion, Naif bought his eshaus system at another place. They all work on the same basis: at X inches from there, bent 33 degres. At Y inches, bent 19 degres, and so on...with the elasticity of the material, the angles may or may not be correct. When this happens at the end of the line, no big deal. It's another story when the error is at the begining. It takes a lot of heat and long levers to correct an angle, I did it on each exhaust system, no matter from where it was coming.
If you buy a system at the company who advertise in the "Self Starter" and have no correction to do, you are lucky. I bought one system there: never again. I had to exchange about 10 e-mails with them, never got a clear answer. The system was sent freight collect "to spare on costs", the system arrived at the wrong airport, adding more costs, and a correction was also needed.
For the majority from you, there are 2 companies doing exhaust systems: the bad one and the good one. Things are not so in the real live.
Recently, I had to order an exhaust system for somemody else. I choose the company in Florida. I did 2 e-mails, got a detailled invoice with shipping charges and got the material with USPS in a timely basis. I don't know how many corrections will be needed: the system in still undelivered but my customer is informed that some work will be needed.

[Dennis DiNorcia #19071]

I had an exhaust system made up from a place if I remember correctly named Antigo Auto, who advertised that he has the original plans for "All" exhaust systems and they are all custom bent by computer. I do not remember the location. I had a system done for my 76 Eldorado convertible and most of it fit OK except the left engine pipe that was bent slightly too close to the firewall. The idiot mechanic installed it anyway and when I picked up the car and drove it the slight movement of the engine was making a thumping noise that I could not tell where it came from. When I did discover where this was coming from I brought the car back and he removed the pipe but since he could not reshape it he bashed in the area in the firewall where the pipe was hitting to give it clearance. After that it was fine. I later had one done for my 68 Plymouth Road Runner and the tail pipes where so far bend off that when you attached them to the mufflers they would angle out towards the rear wheels. I had to pack them up and ship them back to be replaced. When I got them back, they were not cut short enought to allow for the factory exhaust tips so I had to hack off about 12 inches from the end to get them on. After that experience I found out a local exhaust shop does custom fitted exhausts and does the shaping right there. So now I know for the future, I will try my local shop first.

[Mike Josephic CLC #3877]

Unbelievable, that this guy has been selling mis-fitting stuff for at least 25 years.

People like his ads, I believe his name is Crapitch?

Take the whole mess to a muffler shop and have them re-bend and re-fit it.

Live and learn,

Brian

Unforunately, stainless is very difficult to bend for most local shops.  They really
should stop accepting ads from this guy and put him on notice that he is
selling "bogus" goods and shut him down.  Just my opinion.  I spent $1,200
some years ago for a worthless system.  I tried to sell it and not even a bite
for a few hundred bucks.  Mike

As I wrote some days ago, the company in Florida is no more advertising in Hemmings, since a long time. In my opinion, Naif bought his eshaus system at another place. They all work on the same basis: at X inches from there, bent 33 degres. At Y inches, bent 19 degres, and so on...with the elasticity of the material, the angles may or may not be correct. When this happens at the end of the line, no big deal. It's another story when the error is at the begining. It takes a lot of heat and long levers to correct an angle, I did it on each exhaust system, no matter from where it was coming.
If you buy a system at the company who advertise in the "Self Starter" and have no correction to do, you are lucky. I bought one system there: never again. I had to exchange about 10 e-mails with them, never got a clear answer. The system was sent freight collect "to spare on costs", the system arrived at the wrong airport, adding more costs, and a correction was also needed.
For the majority from you, there are 2 companies doing exhaust systems: the bad one and the good one. Things are not so in the real live.
Recently, I had to order an exhaust system for somemody else. I choose the company in Florida. I did 2 e-mails, got a detailled invoice with shipping charges and got the material with USPS in a timely basis. I don't know how many corrections will be needed: the system in still undelivered but my customer is informed that some work will be needed.

Roger:

The Florida guy also advertises in the Self Starter -- that's what I was referring to.  Sorry
for not being more clear.  Hope the system you ordered from him is OK.  However, be
forewarned that his stainless systems are very "loud" and do not sound at all like the
very quiet original systems.  Not enough baffles in the muffler system (mine was quite loud
even with muffler + resonator!).

Mike

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

........However, be forewarned that his stainless systems are very "loud" and do not sound at all like the very quiet original systems.  Not enough baffles in the muffler system (mine was quite loud even with muffler + resonator!).    Mike   

G'day Mike, and others,

I have had Custom bent Stainless Steel Exhaust Systems built for both my '60 CDV, and the '70 Ranchero Squire, purly for the reason that I don't like constantly replacing systems when they rust out from lack of use.

My Exhaust Shop uses high quality, thick wall Stainless, and my only complaint is that they are TOOOOOOO quiet.

He uses either 304 or 316 with thicknesses of between 1.6mm, 2mm and 1/16", depending on the diameter of the tubing, and bends it all up with a Blue Boy Exhaust Pipe Bender that was imported from USA.

Plus, uses good quality Stainless Steel Mufflers and Resonators.

Anyone that uses the thin-wall Stainless is asking for trouble because it work-hardens, and eventually will crack, and the exhaust gasses will pulsate down the piping, causing the sharp noises that people complain about.

Bruce.

[T.L. (Ty) Stinson]

Hello Bruce:
I recently purchased a complete stainless steel exhaust system from Waldron's (listed in the Self Starter) at a cost of $750.00 plus $50.00 for shipping for my '37 Cad 8519 V12. I don't know what the stainless is but I know it tapers from about 2.5" from the engine to 2" at the end. This includes pipes, muffler, resonator, flange, and stainless clamps. I think it is all marked Canadian stainless steel, made in Canada. It is very heavy and everything fits together perfectly, at least on my pool table. Hope it fits as well on the car. As for now, not knowing how loud, soft or tinny it will sound, I am very pleased with the purchase.
Ty Stinson
'37 Cad 8519 sedan
CLC22330

[Johan Boltendal #158]

What surprises me, is the fact nobody is mentioning, SS will lenghten, when it gets hot, as much as an inch and a half, for a complete exhaust system.

Where this might be no problem with the flexible mounting of the relatively newer cars, it certainly will, with the kind of solid fit, on the late 20 and 30 cars, believe me.

The SS sytem will brake apart it self, or your mounts will be bend, op top of that the SS pipes and muffler will get much hotter, thus give more heat then a normal steel one, as far as life span is concerned, the steel system on my '30 Cadillac is in excellent condition after 16 years of use and still as silent as it should be.  Johan

[Peter Nieuwlandt]

I agree with Johan on this.Years ago I also bougth some stainless system from CRAP.... in FL and hated them.
Now I'm back to steel with very good results.Much more silent and they last for 15 years.
And what a difference to the heat on the floorboards of the car !!!!!!

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

What surprises me, is the fact nobody is mentioning, SS will lenghten, when it gets hot, as much as an inch and a half, for a complete exhaust system.    The SS sytem will brake apart it self, or your mounts will be bend, op top of that the SS pipes and muffler will get much hotter, thus give more heat then a normal steel one, as far as life span is concerned, the steel system on my '30 Cadillac is in excellent condition after 16 years of use and still as silent as it should be.  Johan   

G'day Johan,

I had a complete Stainless Steel system made for my '60 CDV, and nowhere did it increase in length as it got hotter.

Using the heavier wall thickness as I stated previously, nothing moves, everything is quiet, and will never rust out.

Bruce.

[Roger Zimmermann]

I had a complete Stainless Steel system made for my '60 CDV, and nowhere did it increase in length as it got hotter.


Bruce.

Bruce, this time you are wrong. It does not matter if the system is plain steel or stainless; it will expand with operating temperature. I learned it the hard way: as you know, the exhaust pipes are going into the rear bumper ends for the 1956 models; they go through an insulator. When I repaired the bumper ends, I notice a steel guide at the bottom of the insulator, did not understand the function of that small piece and discard both (LH + RH). I enjoyed the drive of my "new" Sedan de Ville for a season. When I did the oil change, I noticed that the main mufflers were badly deformed at their ends. Then I understood the use of the metal guides: the exhaust tube cannot move when it is in direct contact with rubber, it stick on the rubber. When expansion occurs, the weakest element of the system will collapse!
I manufactured 2 "spoons" with stainless steel, installed them and my mufflers never suffered again. I did the same on my '56 Biarritz, but not on the Brougham: on this car, the outlet of the exhaust is under the car.
The expansion is not that important, maybe 1/2 inch, but it's there.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

I had a complete Stainless Steel system made for my '60 CDV, and nowhere did it increase in length as it got hotter.
Bruce.

Bruce, this time you are wrong. It does not matter if the system is plain steel or stainless; it will expand with operating temperature. I learned it the hard way: as you know, the exhaust pipes are going into the rear bumper ends for the 1956 models; they go through an insulator. When I repaired the bumper ends, I notice a steel guide at the bottom of the insulator, did not understand the function of that small piece and discard both (LH + RH). I enjoyed the drive of my "new" Sedan de Ville for a season. When I did the oil change, I noticed that the main mufflers were badly deformed at their ends. Then I understood the use of the metal guides: the exhaust tube cannot move when it is in direct contact with rubber, it stick on the rubber. When expansion occurs, the weakest element of the system will collapse!
I manufactured 2 "spoons" with stainless steel, installed them and my mufflers never suffered again. I did the same on my '56 Biarritz, but not on the Brougham: on this car, the outlet of the exhaust is under the car.
The expansion is not that important, maybe 1/2 inch, but it's there.

G'day Roger,

I totally agree with you that the metal will expand, but with all the Exhaust Systems I have built in the past, I have never experienced such movement as  described by Johan.   1 1/2" is excessive in the least, and I still haven't had the expansion problems with both my '60 CDV, and my '70 Ranchero Squire, which are both fitted with Dual Systems, and run close to the Bumper Bars where they exit underneath.   The Ranchero is especially close, and I have never had a problem.

Maybe the metal doesn't expand as much here in the Southern Hemisphere?   But, I find that hard to believe.

But, I have never used the thin stainless material, which I know increases the noise because the metal is so thin.

Bruce.

[homeonprunehill]

What surprises me, is the fact nobody is mentioning, SS will lenghten, when it gets hot, as much as an inch and a half, for a complete exhaust system.
Quote

Johan,If memory serves me correctly, the STS, which would get up to 2,000 degrees F. would only expand maybe 1&1/2"to 2". and the SR71 ,which would get hotter then the STS would not expend much over 3" And the SR71 would fly at 3,500 MPH aqnd the STS's top speed was about 2,000 MPH. Truew the SS will expand some.