Another Japanese SEV from Cadillac

Started by denise 20352, April 03, 2006, 07:37:35 PM

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Randall A. McGrew CLC# 17963

Oh yawn.  And I suspect it will cost $55,000+ ...
I hope by 2008 that there is a Cadillac if not a GM.
Im not sure why, though.

Ed Dougher

I can honestly say that I dont see a single thing that such a car would offer me that something like a Mazda 3 wouldnt... probably for 1/3 the price.  And I wouldnt have pangs of squeamishness about the Mazdas reliablity record.  

I wish theyd make a Cadillac!


  The funny thing is, when I wrote to them and asked them if they could make just "one model" for mature people, I got the feeling that they had received that letter a lot.  Their answer was to try to sell me one of their sports cars.

  At least they havent put the Fleetwood name on one of those  things.  I would be deeply offended if I were to see that.  Theyve been kind enough to let the Fleetwood die without dragging its body through the mud.


Pete B. #16534

When I read this post it just reminded me why I practically never visit this board any more. I swear to god, if all of you dinosaurs ran Cadillac it would have become extinct years ago.

Whatever the car shown on 60 Minutes was, it gives every indication of being spectacular. You may not happen to like it, but that does not mean it wont be a terrific design. And may I remind you that it is exactly this Art & Science design concept that has resulted in dramatic sales increases, and that has finally put Cadillac back on the map again after being in the wilderness for years.

Do you really want to go back to shag carpeting, opera lights, and crushed volour upholstery? God help us all, and long live the "new" Cadillacs.


> Do you really want to go back to shag carpeting, opera lights, and crushed volour upholstery?

   That would be a definite improvement.

   The cars that theyre making now are just like the Datsun and Toyota economy cars that poor people drove when I was growing up.  Cheap, plain-looking, plastic.  They have even managed to make leather seats look like vinyl now.  You feel every bump in the road in these things, the seats are really uncomfortable, you cant move your legs around when they start to cramp, and you have to constantly fight to keep them on the road.  Honestly, would you want to take a long trip in one of these things?

   If they want to make little economy cars and people want to buy them, thats great, but they should at least make one model for mature people who want a luxury car, not an economy car or truck.


Randall A. McGrew CLC# 17963

In many ways this is becoming a debate based upon age.  The younger members love it, the older dont, by and large, with some crossing lines.  Nothing new in that.  The majority of Americans are becoming older Americans.  Our population is not growing through birth but immigration. If you like sporty, high technologically sophisticated cars with a sharp, tech look, then you will probably like the new Cadillacs.  They are not much in the way of competition for BMW but they are good cars.
And most Americans are not interested in such things. They want the best vehicle to haul around the family, go to Home Depot, and look big and expensive...enter the SUV and trucks.

Welcome to Dinosaur status...Trolls because you are over 35.  I cannot tell you how many times young people have called me that because I am older. Personally I could care less.  But it seems kind of puerille to not partake in the CLC forum because you do not agree on an automobile.  I mean, its not like a political issue.
But do as you is still a free country, barely.

Pete B. #16534

Puerile? Maybe, but the tendency for so many on this board to trash the new generation Cadillacs does get annoying after a while, especially when there are other Cadillac enthusiast sites where the members are a little more open minded.

By the way, Im very much a troll myself, having just turned 58, and although I think the older Cadillacs are spectacular, I also think the Art & Science ones are equally so, but in different ways, and for different reasons.

My point is simply that it IS possible to appreciate and respect the merits of both, and to respect and admire Cadillac for taking the risks it has.

Randall A. McGrew CLC# 17963

You know...I knew I was sticking my foot in my mouth when I wrote that!! LOL
Of course you are right.  We should be able to appreciate both, the old and the new.  The criticism is justly deserved, however, when you consider things like comfort, and usability for many of us.

And then there are the criticism of technology, like the HT4100...I mean really.  The NorthStar is not free of such criticism either given the enormity of effort and cost to repair even simple problems on the engine.  But it is a strong, and efficient engine.

Most of the time we just like to complain.  I can only speak for my self when I say this, as I could not afford a modern Cadillac due to its maintenance requirements and sophistication.  It simply is too costly.  Running an older car that is far less sophisticated is generally cheaper and at least I can enjoy the style.  

I had the same reaction on another website with all the political talk and eventually just stopped going in much. So I can certainly empathize with your frustration.

Bruce Reynolds # 18992

Well, I appreciate anything that keeps me dry in the rain, warm in the Winter, and cool in the Summer.

And, if it has a Cadillac name on it beautiful, but if it doesnt, well and good.

I can recall looking into showrooms and seeing the new models on anything, and there were always the few that didnt like what they saw, and a lot that did.

But, they still sold a lot of cars, so someone must have liked what they saw, were it a Cadillac, Nash, Ford, or VW.

Would have loved to be a fly on the wall when the 59s were introduces, then the 60s, Cadillacs, that it, just to hear the remarks.

The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

P.S.   If people dont like what is offered for sale, then they tend to go elsewhere, unless they are "Brand Brainwashed"

denise 20352

  There is nowhere else to go.

  Its frustrating.  I love driving, but there isnt one new car out there that I could buy and get any driving pleasure out of.  I have to drive an older car, and I wont be able to work on them much longer.

  I grew up lusting after these big luxury cars, but the minute I got my drivers license, they started downsizing and making them less comfortable, and they have continued to go in that direction for nearly 30 years.  How bad is it going to get?  Will we someday have an electric Datsun Honey Bee with a Cadillac logo?  Did the Cimarron really happen, or was that a nightmare?  Or both?

   Would have to agree that most people buy whatever is practical, but they dont seem to feel right about it.  Every now and then, someone I know will show me their new car, and I guess they see the expression on my face, because they immediately start making excuses for it.  "It gets really good mileage", or "My bird cage fits in the back."  The cars are so ugly and stupid-looking, the same cars that we used to make fun of when I was young, and now everyone is buying them, but theyre ashamed of them.  I may be disgusted with carmakers, but at least I dont deliberately go out and spend a lot of money for something that Im going to be ashamed to own.   I tried a  top of the line American car, and was disgusted with it...thats really not as much my fault as most people seem to think.

   Dinosaur, I may be, but when I was young, there were still cars that mature and elderly people loved.  They had a ride that didnt jostle you around, and they were easy to steer.  If they can sell people padded trucks that get 12 mpg, why cant they make one of these?  The technology now exists to make a car that would get 17/25 and be easy to drive, so I dont understand why they dont do that.  Just one model would be fine.   People who are older and have injuries are miserable driving sports cars and trucks.

   Empathy...hmm...Imagine having to drive sitting on a board, with a tiny steering wheel and no power steering...thats what the new cars are like to me.  Despite that people seemed to enjoy sitting on boards, wouldnt you want to see one model for people like you who wanted a car with a seat in it?


Matt Harwood

My 68 year-old father loves his CTS ESPECIALLY for its sporty handling and lively performance. Hes driven old-school Cadillacs and Lincolns all his life (from a 66 convertible DeVille, to a 76 Eldorado convertible to an 86 Brougham to a series of Lincoln Town Cars), and this is by far his favorite car. He thought his favorites were (obviously) the floaty old body-on-frame luxury cars. When he drove the CTS, he realized how much he was missing and will never go back.

I too, like Pete B., grow weary of the near-constant complaining about how any vehicle with something other than sponges for springs is unfit for public consumption. I understand one individual has health problems that make a firm-riding car uncomfortable, but I respectfully suggest that some of you are in the vast minority as far as that is concerned. Im sorry there arent any new cars that are your cup of tea for whatever reason, but I think the success of the new Cadillac lines suggest that there are a lot of people out there who want what theyre building today and have no interest in the "bad old days." Look at the declining sales of the Lincoln Town Car, the last of a dying breed. Cadillac sold far more CTS models than Lincoln did Town Cars. Heck, Cadillac sold more TRUCKS than Lincoln did Town Cars.

As far as ride, I think the CTS rides wonderfully. As someone who actually knows what a firm-riding sports car feels like, the CTS is about as far from that as I can imagine. Relative to many performance cars, it rides like a dream and feels notably more solid and well cushioned than even, say, my Mazda station wagon. The CTS feels like a "luxury" ride to me and is infinitely more comfortable than any truck or sports car could ever hope to be.

Sorry if I sound harsh--it isnt intentional. But Cadillac (and Buick) need to do something to drive their median buyer age down so that their future customers dont keep dying on them. Im in the fat part of their target demographic (Im a 36 year-old business owner), and Id never consider buying a mushy Town Car type vehicle, and I also owned a 76 Eldorado convertible for more than a decade and adored it. Perhaps the definition of luxury has changed?

PS: If people are upset that you make a face when you see their new cars, perhaps you should work harder at keeping your opinions to yourself and developing a better poker face. Your opinion is yours alone--expecting everyone else to share it is a problem. Remember that the wise man smiles at the fool.


> Look at the declining sales of the Lincoln Town Car, the last of a dying breed.

   The Town Car breed is already dead.  Ford killed it.  Its now the same car as that crappy Marquis that I have, which is probably why their sales are off.

   Im going to ignore the personal comments that you made.  Im always happy to insult cars, but I try not to insult people.


Pete B. #16534

In a way, Cadillac is stuck between a rock and a hard place. The "mature" driver of today is only getting more, well - mature, which does not bode well for future sales, however loyal they may be.

In order to retain the mature driver of tomorrow, Cadillac has to nail the younger driver of today, and make the cars so good that they wont want to defect down the road as they get older. No easy task to be sure, but I thinks thats whats beginning to happen.

Bruce Reynolds # 18992

Gday Matt,

But, you have to remember that the person that congratulates a person on their choice of purchase, no matter what it is, has subconciously given the buyer that is showing it off, another rung up the ladder of pleasingability.

It is always a nice feeling knowing that your purchase, and the pleasure it brings, wasnt done just for oneself.   It is an "ego" thing.

The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV


  It wont.

  First of all, I am only 42.  I have wanted a full-sized luxury car for the last 25 years, and I will want one for the next 40 years, or as long as I live.  If Cadillac made one, I would get rid of my Chrysler and trade the Mercubox in one one, and I can afford to buy many more of them.  They have chosen to pass me up as a customer, and theyre missing sales.  How many kids who want a sporty, Japanese-looking Cadillac, have the money to buy one?  How many will still want sporty, Japanese-looking cars after they have grown up?  How many of them would just save $50k and buy a Japanese car, instead of Cadillacs copy?

  It seems that Cadillacs focus is on selling cars overseas, which is really all they have left, now that they have alienated Americans over 40...their former customer base.



   That would explain why people start making excuses for their cars after I see them.  Maybe theyre accustomed to people looking at them and saying, "Oh yes, thats a nice car", to spare their feelings, and when I dont say anything, they have to stop and think.

   I cant do it, though.  I guess Ive never forgotten the story of The Emporers New Clothes.  We have too many naked emporers running around.



   And lets dont forget the Lesson of Oldsmobile.  Remember when Olds changed their focus to making smaller, crappier cars?  Their slogan was, "This is not your fathers Oldsmobile".

   Whats wrong with that?  Your father loved his Oldsmobile, and now he cant get one anymore, so hes keeping his old one.  He sure isnt going to buy the little crappy ones that were made for his kids.  Say goodbye to Olds.


Bill Gauch

Wow, apparently, new vs. old is one of the most hot-button issues here. Ive only been actively posting here for the last 6 months or so, and this is one of the hottest debates I have seen. My personal take on the issue is this:

New cars are just that... "New". In order to have old cars for the future generation to collect, they need to have shinny new objects of their affections. That being said, I have often pondered what the future 32 Ford, 57 Chevy, 64.5 Mustang, etc. is going to be. I cant imagine anyone longing for that old Mercury Sable or Honda Civic. Heck, I cant even see anyone thinking back on granddads old 2006 CTS-V, even though I would love to own (not pay for or insure) one of those. I think one of the biggest reasons that car makers dont make cars for older people anymore is that they dont tend to buy many cars once they reach the state of "old". Generally, older people buy that last daily driver and put 12 miles on it per week (192 years until you hit 120000 miles). My parents lived next door to a woman who bought a late 80s Caddy fully loaded. It was finally sold in late 05 in mint condition when she was forced to stay in Florida due to health problems.

To conclude... I think that new low-end hi-po (really more like med-po) cars are made for recent college grads. New VWs are made for 16 year old girls with parents who have too much money. New sedans and midrange cars are made for the working stiff after they sell their low-end car and need a 4-door for family weekend road trips. High-dollar cars are for people who have just enough money to afford one, but want the world to think they have enough money to buy a train but decided that the car was slightly more practical. Finally, trucks (NOTE: Not SUVs. SUVs fall in the last category.) are for people who want to spend the least amount of money to get something to take the trash to the dump, bring home the groceries, haul construction debris out and home-repair stuff in, and if there just happens to be any money left at the end of the month, then maybe, just maybe they can use it to bring home those parts they picked up at the junkyard, swap meet, or freight pickup point.