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How many are left ?

Started by billyoung, March 12, 2023, 09:31:08 AM

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billyoung

I am a curious person and sometimes I wonder about how many Cadillac's all models of any specific year are left all the way from perfectly preserved originals thru rusting hulks languishing in any given barn or junk yard. For example there were 230,003 1968 Cadillac's built, how many are left? 1%, 2% ? again I think about this stuff. Any thoughts ?
Age 68, Living in Gods waiting room ( Florida ) Owned over 40 Old Cadillac's from 1955's to 1990 Brougham's. Currently own a 1968 Cadillac DeVille Convertible and a 1992 Cadillac 5.7 Brougham.

Clewisiii

I guess the answer is more then you think.  We had a registry on the old 61-62 site. Jason Edge had a registry for 63-64 and I believe he had access to DMV database and found that there were many more vehicles on DMV then they had in their group database
"My interest is in the future, because I am going to spend the rest of my life there."  Charles Kettering

Lexi

Quote from: billyoung on March 12, 2023, 09:31:08 AMI am a curious person and sometimes I wonder about how many Cadillac's all models of any specific year are left all the way from perfectly preserved originals thru rusting hulks languishing in any given barn or junk yard. For example there were 230,003 1968 Cadillac's built, how many are left? 1%, 2% ? again I think about this stuff. Any thoughts ?

Excellent question. I have often thought about that myself. With so many variables, I think it is hard to say; pre-war model scrapping during WWII, post war when most did not think about collecting, some models seemed to be saved (more convertibles than Proffesional cars for example), and those that were "Frankensteined" where do they fit in? A question that we will never have a definitive answer to, at least for all Caddies. Probably more than you think as Carl pointed out, with some years and certain models having been devastated.

When I discussed Lou Commisso's 1956 Eldorada Biartiz survival registry, he had a list of 191 cars out of 2150 produced. A known survival rate of 8.8% if I did the math right. Lou told me that there might be another "100 hiding out in the world" remaining. His registry tally of 191 cars in any shape, was reportedly less than the 1953 and 1959 Eldo survival rate, he advised.

That said, I prefer Professional cars although they were always produced in low numbers and they remain a niche item in the collector car world. That said, as most of those cars are about 20 feet in length or even longer, (think lots of Hearses are in the 21 foot ballpark); who has the garage space to store them? While few in number, following retirement from Professional use many were destined to remain outdoors with new owners due to their sheer size. The elements then take their toll and come restoration time the cost of rebuilding is astronomical, (especially if rare trim and glass is missing). So many were destroyed or left to rot. Then there is the 2 door coupe mystique over 4 door cars... Lots of variables that affect the survival rate of any car. Clay/Lexi

billyoung

I know you are right about certain models or body styles are saved and or preserved more than others. I used to own a 1961 Cadillac Sedan DeVille 4 window in Dresden Blue and over time I only saw evidence of less than a dozen in any condition. Mine was low mileage and in very good condition.
Age 68, Living in Gods waiting room ( Florida ) Owned over 40 Old Cadillac's from 1955's to 1990 Brougham's. Currently own a 1968 Cadillac DeVille Convertible and a 1992 Cadillac 5.7 Brougham.

wrefakis

after 43 years of research i can say of 1320 59 biarritz i have files on around 425 give or take with a few left to match up from photos

Lexi

I drive a '56 Series 75 Imperial Limo. 10 years ago I was looking for a Limo only part, and called a specialist vintage Cadillac dealer and seller of parts. At one point he had about 750 Cadillac parts cars as well as others that were in various states of restoration. His favorite car was the 1he 1956 Cadillac Fleetwood 60 Special. So I figured he may be of help, and most certainly had the knowledge base to at least assit. Turns out I drew a zero with him, but when asked how many '56 Limos had he seen in his Cadillac'n years? He replied, "On the road"? I said, "Yes", to which he answered "None", with perhaps one exception of seeing one at a GN in the US he offered as a possiblity. Not encouraging words, especially as he had his son scour North America for any '50s Caddies he could find, as well as some '60s models, for many years. Clay/Lexi

Jay Friedman

I think it is fair to say that most buyers of our cars when new were looking for the practicality of a four door sedan.  We collectors, on the other hand, are attracted to a greater extent by two door coupes, convertibles and Coupe De Villes.
1949 Cadillac 6107 Club Coupe
1932 Ford V8 Phaeton (restored, not a rod).  Sold
Decatur, Georgia
CLC # 3210, since 1984
"If it won't work, get a bigger hammer."

Lexi

Seems to be so Jay. Clay/Lexi

billyoung

Also as far as survivors are concerned I have noticed that many times original owners who barely could afford the car new and ordered maybe a Calais coupe or 4 door with little or no options tended to preserve their cars to a much greater extent than wealthier owners who ordered more highly optioned upscale models and then drove them in all weather and seasons till they were shot. My Mothers Silverpine Green with Sandalwood top and interior that she purchased in 1969 was rusted out by 1973 when she traded it.
Age 68, Living in Gods waiting room ( Florida ) Owned over 40 Old Cadillac's from 1955's to 1990 Brougham's. Currently own a 1968 Cadillac DeVille Convertible and a 1992 Cadillac 5.7 Brougham.

64\/54Cadillacking

Quote from: billyoung on March 13, 2023, 06:19:56 AMAlso as far as survivors are concerned I have noticed that many times original owners who barely could afford the car new and ordered maybe a Calais coupe or 4 door with little or no options tended to preserve their cars to a much greater extent than wealthier owners who ordered more highly optioned upscale models and then drove them in all weather and seasons till they were shot. My Mothers Silverpine Green with Sandalwood top and interior that she purchased in 1969 was rusted out by 1973 when she traded it.


I can definitely see that being the case. Wealthier owners that bought the top of line Cadillac, simply traded it in every 2-3 years and bought a new one like clockwork, so the need to preserve, maintain, and really keep the car long term, or forever for that matter, wasn't a priority for them.

I also wonder how many certain year Cadillacs are left in the wild that's actually registered. Mainly drivers, and restored ones, and not rust buckets that don't run.

My belief is, the older the car, the harder they are to find. Especially Fleetwood's. You also have to take a look at the production numbers for each year as Cadillac produced the most cars in the 1960's-1980's.

1950's and below Cadillac produced the least amount of cars. So as time continues to move on, there's always that issue with the possible reduced availability of good condition old Cadillacs for sale.

1950's Cads on down are really getting harder to find in decent shape for sale on regular sites like Craigslists and OfferUp.

10 years ago it was a challenge locally to find any old 30's-50's Cads for sale from say a private seller, now they're all
most likely to be sold by a classic car dealer.

It would be nice to have some sort of access to a DMV databases so we can truly know how many old Cads are left in world.
Currently Rides:
1964 Sedan Deville
1954 Cadillac Fleetwood 60 Special
1979 Lincoln Mark V Cartier Designer Series
2007 Lexus LS 460L (extended wheelbase edition)

Previous Rides:
1987 Brougham D' Elegance
1994 Fleetwood Bro
1972 Sedan Deville
1968 Coupe Deville
1961 Lincoln Continental
1993 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series
1978 Lincoln Continental ( R.I.P.) 1978-2024 😞

Lexi

#10
Quote from: 64\/54Cadillacking on March 13, 2023, 08:43:25 AMI can definitely see that being the case. Wealthier owners that bought the top of line Cadillac, simply traded it in every 2-3 years and bought a new one like clockwork, so the need to preserve, maintain, and really keep the car long term, or forever for that matter, wasn't a priority for them.

I also wonder how many certain year Cadillacs are left in the wild that's actually registered. Mainly drivers, and restored ones, and not rust buckets that don't run.

My belief is, the older the car, the harder they are to find. Especially Fleetwood's. You also have to take a look at the production numbers for each year as Cadillac produced the most cars in the 1960's-1980's.

1950's and below Cadillac produced the least amount of cars. So as time continues to move on, there's always that issue with the possible reduced availability of good condition old Cadillacs for sale.

1950's Cads on down are really getting harder to find in decent shape for sale on regular sites like Craigslists and OfferUp.

10 years ago it was a challenge locally to find any old 30's-50's Cads for sale from say a private seller, now they're all
most likely to be sold by a classic car dealer.

It would be nice to have some sort of access to a DMV databases so we can truly know how many old Cads are left in world.

Very well put, especially access to a DMV base. Due to privacy legislation I doubt that will occur. I see tracing the history of our cars as becoming even more problematic as time passes. Also Bill Young's comments about the more optioned cars as often receiving less care is an interesting observation. In many cases that would appear to be true. In the livery car service world the general consensus is that the cars are often driven hard for the first few years. They may also have had several drivers. By the time they fall into the hands of private ownership they need much TLC. Other Professional cars usually were well maintained when first purchased as appearances were important (Funeral cars) and at other times people's lives depended on them, (Ambulances/combination cars). My own "straw poll" seems to indicate that many Cadillac Series 75 Sedans saw service in the Funeral industry. For their first few years these cars were well maintained. The Series 75 Limousines (with divider window) appear not to have been used as frequently by Funeral Homes than the Sedans. Although usually produced in smaller numbers, the Limousines of the 1950s are not nearly as plentiful as the Sedan models, possibly (in part) due to their more (presumed) hard life. Clay/Lexi

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

#11
If I had to guess, 1976 is likely one of the highest survival model years in Cadillacs over 30 years of age for obvious reasons with the Eldorado convertible having the highest within that year.

2022 CLC Directory lists club ownership of model year 1976 at 480 cars which is the highest represented model year. However 1959 model year is just three cars less at 477.

 
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Lexi

Yes. Another indicator of how the survival rate of cars can be affected. I have also noted that even in our CLC Directory some cars are misidentified by their owners. In another case, one past member used to list cars that did not even belong to him. Clay/Lexi

fishnjim

A common case of retiree-itis.   Too much time on your hands to think about things like this!   Been there, done that.
ha,HA, HAAAAA!!!   
Somethings in life are better off not known, too.

59-in-pieces

Bill & Others who wanting to add to your how many are still out there, I FOUND ONE.
You're going to need CSI (Crime Scene Investigators) to tell which year.

NO IT'S NOT FOR SALE.

I'm gonna do a Ground-up restoration -GET IT - GROUND.

Have fun,
Steve B.

Future Ground-up Restoration Project.jpg

S. Butcher

Lexi

Great photo. Don't think the mods will know whether it is Cadillac or not. Knowing the survival rate of a particular vehicle is partly related to its value. That is why 1976 Eldos did not climb through the roof in price. Lots to go around.It is also nice to know your odds of finding certain parts before you decide to take the plunge and buy. Steve, please pass on the above noted project car! Clay/Lexi

billyoung

You Guys are a stitch with that ground up restoration photo. That one certainly is the one that got away. All good points. Regarding the Series 75 Sedans 7523 Vs. 7533 models I agree most were purchased by Funeral Home owners, the problem with professional cars especially in the North. They had to be kept clean for Funeral services and that meant parking them in a heated garage and not all the road salt got washed out of the nooks and crannies and the salt acted on the metal constantly and the Hearse bodies did not drain well so they rotted out faster than most regular owner driven cars although heated garages in the north in general were the death of these cars. I remember an estate sale in about 1989 in Rochester new York with a dark blue 1968 Sedan DeVille sedan Low mileage and perfect interior. The fram was almost rotted in half under the front door area.
Age 68, Living in Gods waiting room ( Florida ) Owned over 40 Old Cadillac's from 1955's to 1990 Brougham's. Currently own a 1968 Cadillac DeVille Convertible and a 1992 Cadillac 5.7 Brougham.

jwwseville60

Someone at the Nationals in 2017 said that there are only around 45 1960 Eldorado Seville coupes on the road. Anyone know if this is correct?
When I restored mine, the trim was a nightmare.
1960 Eldorado Seville, Copper, "IKE"
1961 CDV, gold, "Goldfinger"
1964 Eldorado, Turquoise, "Billy the Squid"
1963 De Ville Station Wagon Vista roof, silver blue, "Race Bannon"
1963 Fleetwood 60S, turquoise, "The Miami Special"
1959 Sedan Deville flat top, tan, "Jupiter-2"
1947 Caddy Sedanette 62, black, "Johnny Cash"
1970 ASC Fleetwood wagon, dark blue, "Iron Maiden"
Lifetime CLC

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

#18
The 2022 Directory lists 35 1960 Eldorado Sevilles in CLC membership hands alone. Out of 1,075 produced it's practically impossible that only 45 survive. CLC member Bill Refakis has around 400/1,320 1959 Eldorado Biarritzes accounted for if that's any guide.
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

billyoung

I don't know that answer, however there are 81 1968 DeVille Convertibles plus mine making 82 registered with the club. So if there are 5 times that many that are not CLC Members that exist that would mean a less than 2 % survival rate. There are only 37 1960 Eldorado Seville Coupes registered in the CLC Membership.
Age 68, Living in Gods waiting room ( Florida ) Owned over 40 Old Cadillac's from 1955's to 1990 Brougham's. Currently own a 1968 Cadillac DeVille Convertible and a 1992 Cadillac 5.7 Brougham.