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air conditioning .. are there differences in a 1955 comapred to a 56

Started by Flying Finn, March 13, 2023, 12:54:06 PM

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Flying Finn

air conditioning .. are there any differences in a 1955 compared to a 56 on a convertible ?
Im considering installing a original system in my 56 convertible series 62 .
and all I have found is a system out of a 55 sedan.
thanks, Jaan

Caddy Wizard

I have had several 55 and 56 models with AC.  My recollection is that the compressor, mounting brackets, trunk unit, etc., are essentially the same.  The control panel is different cosmetically.  The dryer might be different, but I don't recall exactly.
Art Gardner


1955 S60 Fleetwood sedan (now under resto -- has been in paint shop since June 2022!)
1955 S62 Coupe (future show car? 2/3 done)
1958 Eldo Seville (2/3 done)

Roger Zimmermann

The fact is that many 1955 and 56 parts are the same. Too many to list here. The master parts list is telling the story.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

64\/54Cadillacking

Quote from: Flying Finn on March 13, 2023, 12:54:06 PMair conditioning .. are there any differences in a 1955 compared to a 56 on a convertible ?
Im considering installing a original system in my 56 convertible series 62 .
and all I have found is a system out of a 55 sedan.
thanks, Jaan

I'm doing the exact same thing on my '54 Fleetwood that you're considering doing on your '56.

Gathering all the original a/c parts is an extremely challenging ordeal. I was fortunate to find most of the a/c parts that I needed from a '54 parts car locally that has been stripped down. But, I also had to scour EBay and other sites to find other parts to eventually be able to make it all work in the future.

Now, I don't have everything that I need to fully install a/c system in my Cad and have it working right away because after doing a lot of research, although the 1954-56 Cadillacs look so similar in many ways, and they shared some components together, each year Cadillac seemed to change parts to the point where I can't use parts off a 55-56 specifically a/c parts that are 1954 only such as the compressor, the condenser, the receiver, clutch solenoid, mounting brackets, main control switch under then dash panel, and so on.

And finding most of all the original a/c  components are getting extremely hard to find and are absurdly expensive as they are a unique setup and are a complexed designed system with lots of different parts and connections.
Currently Rides:
1964 Sedan Deville
1954 Cadillac Fleetwood 60 Special
1979 Lincoln Mark V Cartier Designer Series
2007 Lexus LS 460L (extended wheelbase edition)

Previous Rides:
1987 Brougham D' Elegance
1994 Fleetwood Bro
1972 Sedan Deville
1968 Coupe Deville
1961 Lincoln Continental
1993 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series
1978 Lincoln Continental ( R.I.P.) 1978-2024 😞

Caddy Wizard

One thing to keep in mind is that in 54-56 Cadillac sold air conditioning systems in two versions. One version was for the coupes (and sedans in some regions) with the outlets in the rear package shelf.  The other version was used in many of the sedans and had the outlets in the headliner (with plastic tubes routing the air up into manifolds in the headliner).


For simplicity, while still being original, I would opt for using the package shelf outlets.  Much easier to accomplish.
Art Gardner


1955 S60 Fleetwood sedan (now under resto -- has been in paint shop since June 2022!)
1955 S62 Coupe (future show car? 2/3 done)
1958 Eldo Seville (2/3 done)

Flying Finn

Thanks gentleman for all the information,
Im only going to do this if I can do it correctly.
It sounds like the best way is for me to find a 56 parts car that I can remove the parts .
And I know there is a lot more parts than one might originally think.
Jaan

Mike Josephic CLC #3877

#6
One fact I didn't see mentioned in the previous posts
is that air conditioning was not available from the
factory in convertibles until 1956.  So, if you're
looking for originality in your restoration you may wish
to reconsider your intent to adding a 1955 unit which
may have some differences (I don't know what those
might be) since these were used in closed cars only.

Mike
1955 Cadillac Eldorado
1973 Cadillac Eldorado
1995 Cadillac Seville
2004 Escalade
1997 GMC Suburban 4X4, 454 engine, 3/4 ton
custom built by Santa Fe in Evansville, IN
2011 Buick Lucerne CX
-------------------------------------
CLCMRC Museum Benefactor #38
Past: VP International Affiliates, Museum Board Director, President / Director Pittsburgh Region

Flying Finn

Hello Mike,
Yes, I know 56 was the first year that Cadillac offered it in a convertible.
I was trying to find out if there are any ac parts from a 55 that are the same in a 56 ?
I know the control head on the dash is different .
thanks,Jaan

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

Quote from: Caddy Wizard on March 15, 2023, 11:59:36 AMOne thing to keep in mind is that in 54-56 Cadillac sold air conditioning systems in two versions. One version was for the coupes (and sedans in some regions) with the outlets in the rear package shelf.  The other version was used in many of the sedans and had the outlets in the headliner (with plastic tubes routing the air up into manifolds in the headliner).

Sedans were available with choice of either K2 (with clear ducts) or K (outlets in package shelf).

Coupes were offered in K version only.
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Cadman-iac

Just a quick question for anyone who might know about those clear ducts for the roof outlets, does anyone reproduce these now, or do you have to find good used ones if you're going to be using the air conditioning?
Reason I'm asking is that I have a pair of them that I don't need. My coupe has the outlets in the package shelf.
Thanks, Rick
CLC# 32373
1956 Coupe Deville A/C car "Norma Jean"

J. Gomez

Quote from: Cadman-iac on March 17, 2023, 03:00:15 PMJust a quick question for anyone who might know about those clear ducts for the roof outlets, does anyone reproduce these now, or do you have to find good used ones if you're going to be using the air conditioning?
Thanks, Rick

@rick,

None that I'm aware off not a high demand for any vendor to tackle the job.  ;)

@Jaan,

Outside from all the mechanical pieces there is one item that is/was a bit complex back them and simpler by todays views, "the temperature/climate control".

The temperature control under the dash the wipers on the control slides on a wire wound rheostat which controls the heating element on the thermostat inside the evaporator. Similar arrangement on '55-'56.

The evaporator thermostat has two heating elements wound around the capillary tube one small and one large connected together to ground at one end and to the "on/off" contacts on the thermostat at the other end. The smaller heating coil connects to the dash temperature control to cycle the compressor clutch. Similar arrangement on '55-'56.

There are a few differences between the two systems;

On the '55 there is a relay that connects to the thermostat for the compressor clutch, on the '56 there is no relay, instead the compressor clutch goes through a second thermostat "freeze control" inside the evaporator which opens when the temperature is too high.

One of the issues with either of this systems would be with either the temperature control rheostat on the dash (most predominant failure) or the evaporator thermostat and/or the heating elements on it.

Not trying to discourage you from going forward on your project just providing a few hints in case you get into a trouble shooting road block.   ;)

Good luck..!
J. Gomez
CLC #23082

Cadman-iac

Quote from: J. Gomez on March 18, 2023, 09:56:14 AM@rick,

None that I'm aware off not a high demand for any vendor to tackle the job.  ;)

@Jaan,

Outside from all the mechanical pieces there is one item that is/was a bit complex back them and simpler by todays views, "the temperature/climate control".

The temperature control under the dash the wipers on the control slides on a wire wound rheostat which controls the heating element on the thermostat inside the evaporator. Similar arrangement on '55-'56.

The evaporator thermostat has two heating elements wound around the capillary tube one small and one large connected together to ground at one end and to the "on/off" contacts on the thermostat at the other end. The smaller heating coil connects to the dash temperature control to cycle the compressor clutch. Similar arrangement on '55-'56.

There are a few differences between the two systems;

On the '55 there is a relay that connects to the thermostat for the compressor clutch, on the '56 there is no relay, instead the compressor clutch goes through a second thermostat "freeze control" inside the evaporator which opens when the temperature is too high.

One of the issues with either of this systems would be with either the temperature control rheostat on the dash (most predominant failure) or the evaporator thermostat and/or the heating elements on it.

Not trying to discourage you from going forward on your project just providing a few hints in case you get into a trouble shooting road block.  ;)

Good luck..!


  Hey Jose,
 Thanks for your answer on the clear ducts.

 And yes, good points all. I'm still trying to figure out how to repair the temperature control sensor on mine. I still have  not found any of the correct wire with the correct insulation on it for the heating elements. Even with 3 of these sensors, there wasn't enough of it left in tact to repair one unit.

Jaan,
  Another part that you will have trouble finding are the rubber ducts that go between each of the blower motors and the package shelf, or wherever the convertible ones go. I'm not at all familiar with the convertible systems.
I ended up with 3 systems from 56's in various conditions, but every one of these ducts was bad.
I'm planning on making some adapters that will accept a round hose and mount to a square base on each end in order to be able to use my AC.

   The fresh air intake hoses will be easy enough to make from flexible duct  hose.
The drain in the middle of this hose is easy enough to make. The windshield  drain hoses have a formed end on them that almost identically matches the original drain in the middle
of  the intake hose, and you can make a small hole in your replacement hose and  insert a windshield drain hose through the hole in the round hose in the correct location for that. And being round, you can rotate it to get the drain to the bottom where it should be.
 One problem with these outside air intakes is that debris gets sucked into them occasionally and can plug up the drain hoses, resulting in water getting to the evaporator case. Driving down dirt roads, dust is drawn in too, and it eventually plugs the drain.
 And of course none of this stuff is easily accessible once installed. So cleaning the ducts/hoses is difficult at best. If you are physically handicapped, getting into the trunk to access any of this is almost impossible. Just ask me, I'll tell you all about it.


   I'm still trying to figure out how to use a relay to take the load off of the rheostats on the AC control head so they won't burn out over time, but not having much luck there. I have 2 of those, so was able to get a complete unit that works from the pair.
However, you can't adjust relay output like you can with a rheostat. I'm sure there's probably a way around that, but I'm not savvy enough with electronics for that.
 
 Just some more things to think about while you're working on it.

  Rick
CLC# 32373
1956 Coupe Deville A/C car "Norma Jean"

Cadman-iac

Quote from: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on March 17, 2023, 11:52:43 AMSedans were available with choice of either K2 (with clear ducts) or K (outlets in package shelf).

Coupes were offered in K version only.

  Hi Eric,

I've not ever heard about the K and the K2 options.  Is that something that you would see on the cowl tag, or is it only on a build sheet?
Interesting though,  another new bit of information I have learned today. 
  Thanks, Rick
CLC# 32373
1956 Coupe Deville A/C car "Norma Jean"

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

Quote from: Cadman-iac on March 18, 2023, 03:56:17 PMHi Eric,

I've not ever heard about the K and the K2 options.  Is that something that you would see on the cowl tag, or is it only on a build sheet?
Interesting though,  another new bit of information I have learned today. 
  Thanks, Rick

Yes body tag and build record.

A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

V63

The convertible had completely different discharge than a sedan or coupe I anticipate a different code as well?
 The convertible offering were incredibly rare.

J. Gomez

Quote from: Cadman-iac on March 18, 2023, 01:54:03 PMHey Jose,
 Thanks for your answer on the clear ducts.

 And yes, good points all. I'm still trying to figure out how to repair the temperature control sensor on mine. I still have not found any of the correct wire with the correct insulation on it for the heating elements. Even with 3 of these sensors, there wasn't enough of it left intact to repair one unit.

Rick,

I was able to find nichrome wire with insulation from an eBay seller (long time back) and was I was working on my AC unit I've use a plain nichrome wire and used a fiberglass tube insulator (1mm ID).

Since nichrome wire "CAN'T" be solder I had to use a small copper sleeve and wrapped both coils at the end of the capillary tube on the thermostat, the other ends I was able to spot-welded (I have a small 12V storage spot-welded used to connect rechargeable batteries) them to the thermostat relay contacts.

Since in my case the capillary tube was gone, I've used one from a small freezer Ramco A22 type and transplanted to the original relay on it. I thought I had pictures of the final product but couldn't find them, these are the ones of the transplant and one of the connections.

Quote from: Cadman-iac on March 18, 2023, 01:54:03 PMI'm still trying to figure out how to use a relay to take the load off of the rheostats on the AC control head so they won't burn out over time, but not having much luck there. I have 2 of those, so was able to get a complete unit that works from the pair.

Not sure where you are referring here ??? if you are talking about the 12V path for the compressor clutch you can add one (same as the '55 has) and bypass the 12V source from the temp control over to the clutch. This path will power the relay coil and the relay contacts will provide the 12V from other sources.
J. Gomez
CLC #23082

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

Quote from: V63 on March 18, 2023, 05:42:11 PMThe convertible had completely different discharge than a sedan or coupe I anticipate a different code as well?
 

No. Just K
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Tom Hoczyk , CLC 14044

I'm only writing to share personal experience.  Unless you have deep pockets, great sources for parts, accurate knowledge of proper parts to use, great mechanical and refrigeration knowledge, I would forego this project.  I speak from experience.  For starters, I retired from taking care of the industrial refrigeration at Edy's/Dreyer's Grand Ice Cream.  So I know my refrigeration process.  I have installed FACTORY air conditioning, including all the stuff in the dash, in both my 1960 and 1962 Cadillac hearses (both of which have been at CLC Grand Nationals).  It is a long arduous process, and being pure science, if you don't have everything plumbed and working properly, you won't be getting cold air.  If you are intent of having any sort of air conditioning, my recommendation is finding brackets that would work with the old workhorse GM/Delco/Harrison A6 compressor and connect it to a good under dash evaporator/blower.  Find a unit with as large an evaporator coil as you can.  The A6 compressor is still easy to find, as it was used by GM from 1962 until approximately 1979, although Cadillac was the first to move to the (POS) R4 compressor, I think in 1978.  Feel free to find my phone number in the roster and call if I can further assist.  Good luck!   Tom
Tom Hoczyk

Cadman-iac

Quote from: J. Gomez on March 18, 2023, 06:40:19 PMRick,

Not sure where you are referring here ??? if you are talking about the 12V path for the compressor clutch you can add one (same as the '55 has) and bypass the 12V source from the temp control over to the clutch. This path will power the relay coil and the relay contacts will provide the 12V from other sources.


Hi Jose,

  It's been a long time since I actually looked at the AC control on my 56, but the rheostats that I was referring to are the ones for the blower motors. I've already wired the compressor to use a relay, since it's just a simple on/off, but the blowers require a variable voltage, unless you just want to run them on high constantly. The load on the blower rheostats is what I was trying to relieve with a relay, but I can't see how you can get there from here. I've got several of the blower switches with rheostats, and a couple of them are burnt out. It's possible that it was due to a bad motor, but I didn't want to risk ruining a switch due to an overload. They aren't making any more of them you know.
I've rebuilt all the blower motors I've got to be sure that they don't cause any problems, but they will still draw a good deal of current.
I find it interesting that you were able to locate and use a different capillary tube assembly for your temperature sensor.
Of the 3 I have, I  ruined one while trying to unsolder the heating wire from the end of the tube before I realized that they crimped them on with a sleeve and only soldered that to keep it in place.
But I still have 2 good capillary tube assemblies, just no special wire.
  Where were you able to locate that 1mm fiberglass covering for your wire?
I still want to be able to use the original control system for the AC.
The only thing that I'm not using is the original compressor, since I'm going with a 472 engine and the A6 fits perfectly on it, and it's so reliable and plentiful, why not, right?

  Rick
CLC# 32373
1956 Coupe Deville A/C car "Norma Jean"