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Shopping for a newer Caddy is so frustrating!

Started by Art Director, April 25, 2014, 09:02:27 PM

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Art Director

On March 30, my 2001 Eldorado ESC was totaled by a drunk driver in a rear-ender on the freeway. His insurance company has settled with me for around $7,500, through the help of an attorney. Don't get me started on my sprained rotator cuff injury; that's another story.

Since then, I have scoured many websites, and looked in newspapers and other sources for a 2003-2005 DeVille DTS or 2006-2008 DTS. Decent shape, under 100,000 miles, and the dealbreaker is that it must have the Bose premium audio system. Well, I live in a dreamworld, don't I?

I'm willing to pay Kelley Blue Book/NADA value on a newer Caddy, but I'm finding so many vehicles online priced way above these levels. When trying to negotiate, the sellers feel insulted that I'm pointing out the fact their car is priced so much higher than the price guides.

For example, I found a 2001 Seville STS with just 16,000 miles. Not what I was originally looking for, but the low miles caught my eye. I went to see the car at a dealership. Blue Book says it's worth around $4,600, even with the low miles. The dealer was asking $16,988! The salesman said they would not negotiate. I told him that I'd call him in a few months when the car is still on the lot and work with him, but I can't wait that long to get another car.

Any advice on dealing with these people?
Tim Coy
CLC Southwestern Regions Vice President
Interim Western Regions Vice President
Art Director, The Self-Starter, International Membership Directory
Life member, Rocky Mountain Region
CLCMRC Benefactor #102

1963 Six-Window Sedan de Ville
1972 Fleetwood Brougham - RIP
1988 Sedan de Ville - RIP
2001 Eldorado ESC - RIP
2003 DeVille DTS - sold

Dan LeBlanc

Tim, I think your approach of telling them to call you when they are serious about selling the car is a good one.  It's worked for me before.  Many times I'd get a phone call just before month-end when they were short of making their sales quota would they call me only for me to inform them that I bought something somewhere else for a FAIR price.
Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car

Art Director

Well, Dan, they didn't even ask for my contact information. It's a Subaru dealership and the salesman was about 21 or so. I did get his card, however, so I'll call him next week to see they want to work on a price. I can easily walk away, because DeVille and DTS models are so plentiful out there.
Tim Coy
CLC Southwestern Regions Vice President
Interim Western Regions Vice President
Art Director, The Self-Starter, International Membership Directory
Life member, Rocky Mountain Region
CLCMRC Benefactor #102

1963 Six-Window Sedan de Ville
1972 Fleetwood Brougham - RIP
1988 Sedan de Ville - RIP
2001 Eldorado ESC - RIP
2003 DeVille DTS - sold

Ralph Messina CLC 4937

Tim,

"....the salesman was about 21 or so."   There's the problem. No adult supervision.

Ralph
1966 Fleetwood Brougham-with a new caretaker http://bit.ly/1GCn8I4
1966 Eldorado-with a new caretaker  http://bit.ly/1OrxLoY
2018 GMC Yukon

C.R. Patton II



Hello Tim

I'm sorry to learn of your injury.  I hope you regain full use of the arm.  I believe your tactic is fair.  I would suggest expanding your scope.  Florida and Texas are states with a large quantity of used Cadillacs.  I look forward to discussing your next acquisition at the Grand National in Lake George.
All good men own a Cadillac but great gentlemen drive a LaSalle. That is the consequence of success.

jaxops

I concur with the Swiss Member above.  Florida has a "plethora" of older Cadillacs.  Just be careful about the many dishonest used car dealers there (we had a recent thread about this).  I bought my wife's used Mercedes Station Wagon from a used dealer with questionable ethics.  The difference was I knew what I was buying, and their tricks of the trade.  He had a "buyer coming in from Delaware" so I told him to sell it.  He called me back 2 weeks later and accepted my price.
1970 Buick Electra Convertible
1956 Cadillac Series 75 Limousine
1949 Cadillac Series 75 Imperial Limousine
1979 Lincoln Continental
AACA, Cadillac-LaSalle Club #24591, ASWOA

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

Kelly Blue Book is grossly inaccurate when it comes to evaluations of older used cars with extremely low mileage in mint condition.

In the Seville example - to put it bluntly - it is just plain wrong.

There is virtually no such thing as anything in mint condition with 16,000 miles that can be had for $4,600 in the open market, let alone a 2001 STS.

A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Big Apple Caddy

I agree with Eric, and will add the NADA guide to that "grossly inaccurate" list for valuing older, ultra low mileage cars.  For example, the NADA value for a 2001 Seville STS with 16k miles is only a few hundred dollars higher than one with 125k miles.

The KBB and NADA guides are "better" at valuing later model cars.

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

Yes, most appraisal guide valuations are more accurate the later the model vehicle because condition is more predictable. 
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

harvey b

If you were serious about the car at the subaru dealer,i would go back and talk to the sales manager and see if he will deal a bit on it?,it is better to talk to someone who has the power to make or break a deal,however i=f they want 16,988 for it,i dont think they will drop 10,000 off it in a hurry :o.But it wouyld be a good time to submit an offer and your number to call later?. Harvey
Harvey Bowness

harvey b

Just had a look at Manheims Auction results for last week,there were 9 similar cars sold in the US,prices were from 500  to 2400  the high retail on them is 5400.  the 2400 car had 69,000 miles. Do you know any used car dealers in your area,maybe they could find you something at one of the auctions. Harvey
Harvey Bowness

mistertudball

10-4 on checking Florida and Texas.  Looking for a new-old car is kind of a hobby for me, so I regularly check eBay and am amazed at the number of Caddys (and other luxury makes) for sale, often one owner, low mileage, for not much money.  And it's pretty easy to check on the seller too.  A few years ago I saw a loaded 2000 Chrysler LHS at a dealer north of Dallas (I'm in Ohio) with about 50K miles that looked brand new except for one crack in the dash (Texas heat-related no doubt, but I'll take that over salt damage any day).  Auction ended at $4,900 (me on top) and I flew down and drove it home.  It really looked brand new.  I've seen lots of Sevilles and Eldos in Florida I'd jump on if I could justify another car.
David Bartosic CLC19619

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

#12
Quote from: harvey b on April 29, 2014, 03:00:42 PM
Just had a look at Manheims Auction results for last week,there were 9 similar cars sold in the US,prices were from 500  to 2400  the high retail on them is 5400.  the 2400 car had 69,000 miles. Do you know any used car dealers in your area,maybe they could find you something at one of the auctions. Harvey

Auction sales results are all well and good but without actually seeing a car(s) in person, the usefulness of the data is of extremely limited value. This is especially true of older vehicles because older vehicles that are in pristine, "as new" condition with extremely low mileage. Such examples can and will bring several times the value of otherwise identical vehicles of average condition and mileage. 

As someone who has been in the automobile business for nearly 30 years, I have seen this firsthand on innumerable occasions.

Specifically regarding the 2001 STS with 16,000 miles in the OP's example, there is little doubt in my mind that such an example could easily fetch $10,000+ at Manheim, assuming the car is immaculate and wearing an attractive color combination. You will not find one like that in auction sales results.

By way of interest, a dealer friend of mine just paid $10,800 for a 2001 Dodge Ram 1500, regular cab 4x4 with 16,000 miles on the clock, as new condition. So there is another example of a vehicle for which you will not find anything comparable in auction results. 

There are no shortcuts in this game: If you want the best, you will have to pay for it.
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Big Apple Caddy

Quote from: harvey b on April 29, 2014, 02:51:39 PM
If you were serious about the car at the subaru dealer,i would go back and talk to the sales manager and see if he will deal a bit on it?

Assuming the car in question was at the dealer in Colorado Springs, it seems to have already sold as it disappeared off their website pretty quickly.  The question is whether it sold to a retail customer or to another dealer.  If the latter, it may show up for sale again soon.

Art Director

#14
Search is over! Tuesday afternoon I scored a 2003 DeVille DTS, slightly less than 44,000 miles, Crimson Pearl with tan cloth roof, spoiler, Bose premium sound system. I'm now a happy camper.

Thanks, everyone, for your insights and for the listings some of you sent to me.
Tim Coy
CLC Southwestern Regions Vice President
Interim Western Regions Vice President
Art Director, The Self-Starter, International Membership Directory
Life member, Rocky Mountain Region
CLCMRC Benefactor #102

1963 Six-Window Sedan de Ville
1972 Fleetwood Brougham - RIP
1988 Sedan de Ville - RIP
2001 Eldorado ESC - RIP
2003 DeVille DTS - sold

Dan LeBlanc

As you know, Tim, we all like to see photos around here.  Sounds like a nice car.
Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

Quote from: Art Director on April 30, 2014, 02:38:56 AM
Search is over! Tuesday afternoon I scored a 2003 DeVille DTS, slightly less than 44,000 miles, Crimson Pearl with tan cloth roof, spoiler, Bose premium sound system: $7,400. A bit over the dealer Blue Book value, but not much. I'm now a happy camper.

Thanks, everyone, for your insights and for the listings some of you sent to me.

According to NADA, Clean Retail for a 2003 DTS is $5,775 + 225 (Bose Stereo) + $4,025 (mileage adjustment) = $10,025.

I would have no compunction offering the car for $9,995. It would easily sell for north of $7,000 at dealer wholesale auction assuming the car was mint with no paintwork.

You did extremely well.

Congratulations.
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Big Apple Caddy

Quote from: ericdev on April 30, 2014, 09:25:56 AM
According to NADA, Clean Retail for a 2003 DTS is $5,775 + 225 (Bose Stereo) + $4,025 (mileage adjustment) = $10,025.

Aren't you being too generous on the mileage adjustment?  Doesn't NADA state that adjustment for low mileage shouldn't exceed 50% of trade-in value?  Therefore, it would be more like $1,725 than $4,025.  NADA retail value would be under $8k, not over $10k.

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

#18
Quote from: Big Apple Caddy on April 30, 2014, 10:28:51 AM
Aren't you being too generous on the mileage adjustment?  Doesn't NADA state that adjustment for low mileage shouldn't exceed 50% of trade-in value?  Therefore, it would be more like $1,725 than $4,025.  NADA retail value would be under $8k, not over $10k.

Ah yes, another sterling example of how "book" values fail to correspond with reality:

Supposedly, the "maximum" adjustment for mileage (according to the book) is 50% of trade in value. The mileage interval which corresponds to a $1725 mileage adjustment addition would be approximately 90,000 miles on a 2003 vehicle.

So according to the book, the car would have the same value whether the car had 90,000 miles or 0 (zero) miles.

Obviously a situation that hardly squares with reality.

All other things equal, a car 40,000 miles is absolutely worth significantly more than the same car with 90,000 miles; and a car with 10,000 miles is worth significantly more than the same car with 40,000 miles and so on... - absolutely, positively, any time, any day of the week.*

*The above holds true for vehicles in pristine or near mint condition. Very low mileage on a vehicle in only fair to poor condition will have far less effect on value. 
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Big Apple Caddy

Quote from: ericdev on April 30, 2014, 11:38:50 AM
Ah yes, another sterling example of how "book" values fail to correspond with reality

Right although in the case of the OP's purchase of the 2003 DeVille DTS, the NADA retail value turned out to be pretty well in line with his purchase price.  As you say, though, the NADA value would've been the same if the car had "zero" miles or 90,000 miles...which is unrealistic, all else constant.