Our new garage in coming along pretty good. The trusses were set yesterday and today it's raining so no sheeting till Thursday.
I would like some imput on the required lighting for this garage. It is 2000 sq. feet with a 14'6" ceiling, six 4'X4' windows, two 12' X 12' doors and two walk thru doors.
I was thinking of using some type of LED lights. We used two cheap 4' shop type lights with LED's from Lowe's ($39) in our greehouse and they turned out to be pretty bright. Menard's has 4' shop lights with two rows of LEDs for $107 each.
I also considered metal halite (miss spelled I'm sure) but they are kind of hot.
We will only be using this garage in the Summer, as we are in Florida for the Winter.
I will be installing a lift (any suggestions on a lift?) and would like to be able to have it bright enough.
I know some of you guys have outstanding garages for your priced toys so chime in with some ideas.
Thanks in advance,
Lou
on the lift... get one with the cables over head , not with the tube on the floor to trip over...
gene Harl ... CLC22406
Hello Lou,
Sounds like you have a generously sized garage at 2000 square feet. Is your garage closer to a square (40 x 50) or a rectangle (25 x 80)? Are the windows on all four walls or just one, and which direction do the windows face? Since the garage will be used only during the Summer, do you plan on having the large doors open when working in the garage? You have the potential for lots of natural light so you may not need much in the way of general, overhead illumination, unless you plan to work at night.
Since your ceiling is 14'6", you may want to pay closer attention to task lighting. Will you have a workbench that will be used often? You may want to suspend lights from the ceiling, or wall mount fixtures closer to the workbench. Having a lift is great, but with ceiling lights 14'6" away, you will be in the shade working under a car while it is on a lift. You may want to consider some sort of portable lighting that can be moved to illuminate the underside of the car when it is on the lift.
Generally, a big garage will require more lighting than a small garage. LED lighting may be more expensive initially than fluorescent lighting, but the electrical consumption of the LEDs may be less on a continuing basis. Check and compare the fixture manufacturer's specifications and the cost of replacement bulbs, as well as the utility rates in your area. Does your local utility provide any incentive for using LEDs?
Don't overlook the benefits of painting the walls and ceiling with white paint. This could be something as inexpensive as KILZ 2. You may want to consider sealing the concrete floor to keep down dust. Oh, and don't forget the refrigerator for those cold ones after a hard days work on the car.
Respectfully submitted,
Christopher Winter
Thanks,
The windows are 2 to the north, 2 to the east, 2 to the west. One 12' door to the east and the other to the south. The concrete floor is already sealed and a pleasure to sweep. I also put in radiant heat in the concrete.
As far as a lift I hate buying any Chinese stuff but BendPak makes a pretty good lift for the price and they have safety approvals. I also looked at Backyard Buddy made in Ohio but they are pricey and no safety approvals.
I,m getting a four post lift as it can be easily moved if needed.
I have halogen work light on stands for working under the car while on the lift.
Good idea about having some lower lights over the benches and work areas.
It's raining here today so we are going to take a ride to Menard's after lunch to see what they have to offer in the lighting department.
A/C mini spits are a maybe in the future if it's too hot in the Summer.
Any other suggestions are welcomed,
Lou
When I managed an Exide warehouse, we had new lighting put in. My ceilings were slightly taller than yours, but, if I recall correctly, we used T5 fluorescent fixtures. The light output was pretty impressive. Quite spendy, but well worth it.
We used half the fixtures compared to traditional fluorescent and achieved 2x the light.
Thanks Dan,
I'll look into T 5s
Lou
Lou,
Our 4800 sq. ft. shop has 20 ft. ceilings. After several quotes from electricians, a friend of mine who is also an electrician suggested 6 each 6-light 36" high bay T5 fluorescent lighting. Those 6 lights provide a TON of light in the shop. We do have white walls and ceiling and a light gray epoxy painted floor, and it's wonderful. We also got a deal on some pallet racks, getting about 12' of them for a few hundred dollars:
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.fotki.com%2F1_p%2Csfdwqkgwbqdgbqgxgddbwddrbddf%2Cvi%2Frtbsdsrdqxskgrdsrtw%2F5%2F1331095%2F7778818%2Fworkbench1-vi.jpg&hash=b81e1301eb76f69a75983278af1f77d1f7363ad4)
I added some linoleum-surfaced plywood decking, and in the left bay, put a single 36" 2-bulb T5 fluorescent light, and two in the right bay. Again, a lot of light for my old eyes. I love it. I still have drop lights and task lights where needed, especially when up inside the transmission tunnel replacing a clutch, but for general lighting I really like the T5 bulbs. They put out a lot of light for their size.
Speaking as one who does have a lift, you just cannot have enough light. This is especially true when working under the car. In those situations task lighting is the answer. You need lights that are below the raised car and able to be aimed/directed to your work area!
As for lift recommendations I went with a USED Mohawk A-7. Yes it was pricey, but I wanted one that I could/would walk under without fear. It is American made. New, it comes wit a 5 yr. warranty. Most others have a year or so.
When it comes to the lift almost all the major companies are Chinese made under 10000 lbs.
Bend - pak too.
Make sure you get a certified lift.
I found the Danmar to be the best bang for the buck.
Be mind full of shipping cost. Many of the majors ship for free,
Except if delivered to a residential address or you pick up at the dock.
All I can say is READ, Read, READ all the info before ordering.
Make your own decision. Make sure if fits for you and your situation.
I picked a lift based on the drive through width.
My shop has doors on each end ( drive though ).
I wanted my 102 inch wide boat trailer to be able to pass between the arms and be certified.
That narrowed the field a bunch.
I am very happy I put in the lift, I'm getting too old to crawl around on the ground.
Good Hunting
I want a four post lift and I will be sure that it's certified. A two post lift needs to be bolted to the floor and since we have radiant heat in the floor and I wasn't sure where the lift will end up so the four post is a better choice for me.
We went to Menard's and checked out some lighting today. They had some flush mount fixtures with two rows of LEDs, that would look better than exposed since we are drywalling the whole garage. They also had some T5s that would be good over work areas and benches.
I have two pairs of halogen work lights on stands that would be great for task lights.
Can't wait till Spring when we get back up here and I can finish it.
I won't know how to act, not having to lay on the concrete.
Lou
Quote from: Dan LeBlanc on November 17, 2015, 01:46:18 PM
When I managed an Exide warehouse, we had new lighting put in. My ceilings were slightly taller than yours, but, if I recall correctly, we used T5 fluorescent fixtures. The light output was pretty impressive. Quite spendy, but well worth it.
We used half the fixtures compared to traditional fluorescent and achieved 2x the light.
Quote from: Gene Beaird on November 17, 2015, 02:28:41 PM
Our 4800 sq. ft. shop has 20 ft. ceilings. After several quotes from electricians, a friend of mine who is also an electrician suggested 6 each 6-light 36" high bay T5 fluorescent lighting. Those 6 lights provide a TON of light in the shop. We do have white walls and ceiling and a light gray epoxy painted floor, and it's wonderful. We also got a deal on some pallet racks, getting about 12' of them for a few hundred dollars:
Lou,
Hi. Dan and Gene are on the right track. I do this for a living. A little pricey, but the best fixture you could use right now for your application would be some high output 4', 6-bulb T-5 fixtures. They are pretty much meant for high bay applications, but you could get away with them at your ceiling height. No need to drop them down any, the higher the better. One fixture will pretty much take the place of four regular fixtures, so the advantage of using this type of fixture is obvious. You will be blown away at the lumens output. It's insane. If you are going to be using them all the time, look into some LED alternatives. Initial out of pocket expense will be more, but your payback will be about 1/8 th less wattage and an approximate 80,000 Hr. lamp life. If you go LED, just make sure you get the right Kelvin temperature for your application, usually ranging from 2700K to about 6000k in color, depending on the manufacturer.
Bobby
Bobby,
The T5s at Menard's were real bright, one was 2 rows with four 4' bulbs = 8' or four 4' bulbs parallel with shiny reflectors =4'.
The LEDs were bright but not as the T5s.
I'm thinking that since the T5s are surface mount and the LED fixtures flush mount I'll use some of both.
I'm probably not going to buy these until we get back up here in the Spring. Maybe by then I'll have more choices.
The drywall won't be till Spring.
As soon as the roof is dried in I'll be installing the electrical conduit and leaving for Florida.
Thanks,
Lou
Quote from: savemy67 on November 17, 2015, 12:56:27 PM
Hello Lou,
Sounds like you have a generously sized garage at 2000 square feet. Is your garage closer to a square (40 x 50) or a rectangle (25 x 80)? Are the windows on all four walls or just one, and which direction do the windows face? Since the garage will be used only during the Summer, do you plan on having the large doors open when working in the garage? You have the potential for lots of natural light so you may not need much in the way of general, overhead illumination, unless you plan to work at night.
Since your ceiling is 14'6", you may want to pay closer attention to task lighting. Will you have a workbench that will be used often? You may want to suspend lights from the ceiling, or wall mount fixtures closer to the workbench. Having a lift is great, but with ceiling lights 14'6" away, you will be in the shade working under a car while it is on a lift. You may want to consider some sort of portable lighting that can be moved to illuminate the underside of the car when it is on the lift.
Generally, a big garage will require more lighting than a small garage. LED lighting may be more expensive initially than fluorescent lighting, but the electrical consumption of the LEDs may be less on a continuing basis. Check and compare the fixture manufacturer's specifications and the cost of replacement bulbs, as well as the utility rates in your area. Does your local utility provide any incentive for using LEDs?
Don't overlook the benefits of painting the walls and ceiling with white paint. This could be something as inexpensive as KILZ 2. You may want to consider sealing the concrete floor to keep down dust. Oh, and don't forget the refrigerator for those cold ones after a hard days work on the car.
Respectfully submitted,
Christopher Winter
The garage is 40 X 50.
Lou
Lou,
The Specular Alzak reflector is good for reflecting about 95% of the light hitting it, resulting in an output of about 30,000 Lumens from the 4', 6-light, HO T5 Fixture. For a 300 watt fixture, you're getting about the same Lumens output of a 600 watt HID fixture, with a way wider beam spread. I won't spec a job without the polished aluminum reflective back. It's the way to go. People can't believe the output until they see it. 8)
Bobby
The downstairs in my 3 bay garage is about 900 sq ft (32' x 28') and less than half the size or your area, however, I think my experience with LED's may be relevant. I recently pulled out all 14 of my 2' x 4' fluorescent fixtures with 4 T-12 bulbs and replaced with 22 4' LED light strips in my 3 bay garage. My garage has truss type ceiling beams and had installed the 2' x 4' fluorescent fixtures between the span. Since I use the upper truss area for storage they took up a lot of real estate. With the LED strips, the fit perfectly on the bottom edge of the 4" bottom of the trusses and regained a lot of overhead space!
The LEDs I used were Utilitech Pro 48" with a double row LED. The part # is 0595685 with 3600 lumens & 4000 light color rated at 40 watts. I installed a couple of these where I had one fixture just to see how they would work out and they were much brighter than the old Fluorescent fixtures. Now with all the old fixtures gone and the new LED strips in place it provides much brighter even light, with no flicker and no bulbs out. These were $44.98 each, or about $42 each with their 5% discount. I could have definitely spread the lights out more, and would have still be brighter than the old fluorescent fixtures, however, I am really love the extra bright light.
Doing the math my 22 LED strips put out almost 80,000 lumens. Combined they pull 880 watts (22 x 40watts), which is considerably less than the 1792 watts (32 watts x 4 x 14) for the 14 4-bulb fluorescent fixtures. So considerably brighter, while pulling 1/2 the current, and freeing up a lot of space, these were a big upgrade for me. I've got about $1000 invested in the 22 LED's and think that was some of the best money I have spent in a while.
Lowes also sells a 2' long version of this light and a single row 2' and 4' version. I installed a double 2' version over our kitchen sink in our 1912 home, and installed a simple pull switch at the end of the light fixture, replacing Halogen's, and my wife simply loves it! I have pretty much swapped out all incandescent and Halogens bulbs with LED's around the house.
Here is a picture in the garage and the LED's I used:
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If you spend that much on a garage you should get the lighting designed by a lighting pro. A good electrical/lighting supply or some gen. contractors can do the easy calculations. I did them for construction projects at work. OSHA, etc. has standards for task lighting requirements that should to be observed.
When I revamped the lighting in my current 2000ft2 garage, I placed outlets and put the lighting fixtures on plugs and chains so they could be adjusted or moved as things change. It's more wiring but use zone switches by the entry doors. If you just need to pop in for a tool, no sense lighting the whole 2000ft2. I use motion activated outdoor lighting for ease and security. My last garage was 1500ft2 and I fixed the lights and then had to change things as more task lighting was needed.
I bought a new 2 post lift, which picks up the car by the corners of the frame. That allows working
on wheels, brakes, about anything functional. I installed it myself in 2 days. The disadvantage is
you must have very good concrete to anchor into. A 4 post is simpler, but what good is lifting it up if
its still standing on the wheels? The latest fluorescent light is excellent, probably the best buy.
Bruce Roe
The thing with 2 post is like you said, you need to have good concrete.......well most people have no idea if there concrete is good or not, nor know the depth of the garage floor, if it was done improper or thin like 4 inches thick that was not intended on having something like a lift installed can be very dangerous and can fall to one side crushing whatever is under neath, damaging home walls and more.
Industrial concrete floors are made to handle heavy loads and the use of top heavy equipment.
Your regular home garage floor is not made with those same standards, only to have a car sitting on it. Also, important that there are a lot of garage floors made with tension rebar....if you nick one of those with drill.......look out, major problems
Just something to think about.
I have seen a couple cases that bad things happened to them because of that fact.
4 post are more stable and not likely to break to one side. Yes not as convenient but for a home use far more safe. If you need to work on wheel.......use a jack.
Quote from: 55 cadi on November 18, 2015, 10:49:54 PM
The thing with 2 post is like you said, you need to have good concrete.......well most people have no idea if there concrete is good or not, nor know the depth of the garage floor, if it was done improper or thin like 4 inches thick that was not intended on having something like a lift installed can be very dangerous and can fall to one side crushing whatever is under neath, damaging home walls and more.
Industrial concrete floors are made to handle heavy loads and the use of top heavy equipment.
Your regular home garage floor is not made with those same standards, only to have a car sitting on it. Also, important that there are a lot of garage floors made with tension rebar....if you nick one of those with drill.......look out, major problems Just something to think about.
I have seen a couple cases that bad things happened to them because of that fact.
4 post are more stable and not likely to break to one side. Yes not as convenient but for a home use far more safe. If you need to work on wheel.......use a jack.
All the above are absolutely true. However, what's the use of a lift if you must use use a jack anyway? The
average garage might need the concrete done over. I have a floor used many years under a 6 ton motor
home; there are no cracks at all. It was at least 6" deep; I drilled and never did break through. But I
never put more than 5000 lb on the 10,000 lb lift. Bruce Roe
Lou, I bought my four post lift just over a year ago I am more than happy with it, http://advantagelifts.us/4-post-lifts I bought the 9000 pound version, the tracks are wide enough I can drive on and off without a spotter and even with a 59 Fleetwood it is very steady. There is a video on their site that explains them vey well. I installed mine myself used a engine hoist (cherry picker) to put it together. Marty
Another consideration on 2 post vs 4 post lifts for us older Caddie owners (the cars not the people) with rear leaf springs is the risk of the shackles flipping when the rear wheels are suspended. A definite PIA to deal with each time the car is lifted. Harry
Thanks,
I'm building the garage so I know how strong the 6 inch concrete floor is. My problem with a 2 post was that I'm not sure where the lift is going to end up and having radiant heat it would be hard to provide space for drilling without hitting the Pex heat tubing.
So that is why the four post. I don't mind using a jack. The lift I'm looking into is the BendPak HD-9XW with the RJ-45 bridge jack.
The whole garage will have drywall so I'm providing plenty of elec boxes on the ceiling for flexibility in hanging lights.
Thanks again,
Lou
The use of a 4 post can be used for all work except tires.....
Also think about the weight of what you are working on? Tires are not light, if you are not physically able to lift a tire that high into the air or take down from up high, then you will need to use a jack anyway, not to mention safer being close to ground.
And I mentioned about the garage floor is simply because not all garage floors are made the same, different states and cities have different regulations and unless you know or have the blueprints to see how it was done you can have serious problems, or if you are the one putting down the cement then you can make it better than city code. Example...California and earthquakes, rainy land that makes for softer soil, some land I have worked on that was on reclaimed land that eventually had large cracks in garage flooring.
Remember every city has different codes for concrete install, they assume it will be for a car or two and not to have a top heavy post there, some rules for install I see make no sense but that's the law of the city.
I was in construction and know a thing or two about that application.
I'm just letting people know about possibility of what can happen and what to look for with that type
of installation. Not everyone knows to think of those things.
Jason
Quote from: 55 cadi on November 19, 2015, 10:23:50 AM
The use of a 4 post can be used for all work except tires.....
<SNIP>
Many 4-post lift vendors offer jacks that set on trays that can be slid between the lift deck rails. Extra cost, yes, but it can facilitate getting the car off it's suspension.
Additionally, you don't have to lift the car overhead to pull the tires. Get it up so that the tire is at about waist height, and you don't have to bend over to pull the tire.
Quote from: Gene Beaird
Additionally, you don't have to lift the car overhead to pull the tires. Get it up so that the tire is at about waist height, and you don't have to bend over to pull the tire.
That is what happened here Tuesday. After recycling the old tires, blasting & painting the
rims, 4 new tires have me ready for winter. And checked over the brakes. They are heavy
to lift that high, though. Bruce Roe
Here are some pictures of our progress.
Quote from: 55 cadi on November 19, 2015, 10:23:50 AM
The use of a 4 post can be used for all work except tires.....
Also think about the weight of what you are working on? Tires are not light, if you are not physically able to lift a tire that high into the air or take down from up high, then you will need to use a jack anyway, not to mention safer being close to ground.
And I mentioned about the garage floor is simply because not all garage floors are made the same, different states and cities have different regulations and unless you know or have the blueprints to see how it was done you can have serious problems, or if you are the one putting down the cement then you can make it better than city code. Example...California and earthquakes, rainy land that makes for softer soil, some land I have worked on that was on reclaimed land that eventually had large cracks in garage flooring.
Remember every city has different codes for concrete install, they assume it will be for a car or two and not to have a top heavy post there, some rules for install I see make no sense but that's the law of the city.
I was in construction and know a thing or two about that application.
I'm just letting people know about possibility of what can happen and what to look for with that type
of installation. Not everyone knows to think of those things.
Jason
I'm a builder (mostly concrete in the Florida Keys) and what I enjoy the most about building at our farm in Indiana is that this county doesn't have a building department. The only permits that are required are septic and drainfield. I am building everything to code or better. I'm even using conduit for the wiring (no Romex here).
Lou
Quote from: 55 cadiThe use of a 4 post can be used for all work except tires.. Jason
Well how about the things I just finished on my 79 Eldo? Brake inspection, pad/lining replacement,
caliper replacement, wheel bearing replacement, brake hose replacement, wheel bearing greasing.
The fuel and brake lines that I had to replace run along the outside frame rails, so they would be
covered by drive on ramps. I replaced one half shaft, shock absorbers.
Also, swapping a rear axle, done many. A drive shaft comes out easier if the wheels are extended.
Bruce Roe
I went with a Bend Pac, my criteria eliminated most most the others. I am 6'-2" and wanted sufficient clearance to walk around without ducking. I wanted a lift as wide as possible for my trucks and cars. I wanted portability and also purchased the Bend Pac casters. I than added 4 lights under the lift and can unplug them when raising or lowering the lift.
My biggest mistake was adding a guest suite over 3 bays of the 4 car garage. I could add another lift if if the guest suite was only over 2 bays.
As to working on the cars there is a beam with rollers and jack you can add that will lift the car if you want to work on the brakes or wheels. I have not done that though. I keep plywood between the lift runners for storage of long items.
Hi Gary,
I have been leaning towards the Bend Pak also, the HD9XW (extra wide, long and higher lift) and the 4500 lb jack.
I found out that Northern Tool will ship it for free and without tax to this state.
I'm also putting in guest quarters upstairs but the whole garage ceiling will be 14'6" so I will have room for extra lifts if ever needed.
We won't be finishing the garage until we come back in the Spring. As it is we should have headed home (Fla.Keys) last month but wanted to be here until they dried in the roof and walls so I can run the electrical conduit before they do the insulation.
We are not looking forward to the forecasted temperatures for this area this weekend (13 with the wind).
We are originally from the Chicago area, but Fla has been our home for almost 40 years.
Thanks for your input.
Lou
Speaking of floor strength... I hope mine is adequate:
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If not we will have a sinking feeling.
Re: lighting, for my new storage building I used the 54W HO 8' 4-lamp fixtures from HD with 3500K tubes and am very happy. Lots of current draw but they'll see little use.
Best regards,
Jeff