Way too long overdue upgrade

[J. Gomez]

Well finally getting around to tackle an overdue upgrade. Had the relays pack and all done ready to be installed for well over two years, one of those "bottom of the list" projects.   

Got tired of getting the windows switches fluctuation when lowering or raising the windows and removing them for minor adjustments.   

Now both the motor and switches are much happier (a bit stronger motor operation) and no longer need to worry about overloading the switches. 

Two doors done two more to go, hope the weather gets better to get back on track.   

[Moody]

Nice upgrade! Which relays did you go with?

[Cadman-iac]

  So you used twin relays to take the load off of the window switch? One for up, one for down. Pretty cool!!
I'm going to have to consider this for my Cadillac, although I've already made a new harness for it, it shouldn't be very difficult to add 4 jumper harnesses for this. I recognize the relays, they're the same ones I've been using for my trucks to relieve the loads from various switches. I got mine from Waytek Inc. along with the connectors and connector terminals.
I forgot the number on the relays, I'd have to go out and check an invoice for that.
  This works great for the older design motors that have a separate winding for each direction. It would take a bit different design to use on the single winding motors that use reverse polarity to change direction, I'd have to sit down and draw it out for these to be sure it'd work.
Pretty cool Jose! Thanks for the idea.

Rick

[James Landi]

I'm a great believer in "40 Amp field relays"  I've used them for convertible top switches that, overtime, simply can't handle the full load, but can easily still function and trip a milliamp relay coil. Using them to "save" the window switches from total burnout is another example of "workaround" ingenuity.  An elegant fix.  Happy day, James

[J. Gomez]

Nice upgrade! Which relays did you go with?

David,

I bought the set of interlocking relays from Amazon these are the SPDT type with the relay sockets, there was no need to go super tech and overboard on cost for this application.   

I had to make changes to the wiring layout on the sockets to make it consistence for my application.

So the "black" ground stay on the same slot 85 (coil side) wired them together, the "red" main +12V power was move to slot 30 (the relay moving contact) wired them together, the "white" from the switch +12V was move to slot 86 (coil side) I've also added a black strip to the "down relay" just for reference, and the "blue" and "yellow" got move to slot 87.

The window switch extends the +12V to the coil on the "white" (up) "white/black" (down), the main +12V is extended to the "blue" or "yellow" over to the motor wires.

For the main +12V "red" source for the relays I've used the same +12V on the main window hardness and splice them together, just a small 14" pig-tail inside the window switch hardness and splice at the split area. This was a very clean and simple wiring, the most pain full task was and will be removing the door panels.

The only caveat is the male/female connectors to and from the motor are the GM/Packard 59 type connectors so on the relay side I've used the 59 female and 56 male.

So you used twin relays to take the load off of the window switch? One for up, one for down. Pretty cool!!
I'm going to have to consider this for my Cadillac, although I've already made a new harness for it, it shouldn't be very difficult to add 4 jumper harnesses for this. I recognize the relays, they're the same ones I've been using for my trucks to relieve the loads from various switches. I got mine from Waytek Inc. along with the connectors and connector terminals.
I forgot the number on the relays, I'd have to go out and check an invoice for that.
  This works great for the older design motors that have a separate winding for each direction. It would take a bit different design to use on the single winding motors that use reverse polarity to change direction, I'd have to sit down and draw it out for these to be sure it'd work.
Pretty cool Jose! Thanks for the idea.

Rick

Rick,

Yes the relays are the basic 12V SPDT type (5-pin layout), in my case they are rated at 30A NC @14VDC (normally closed) contacts so enough to handle these Delco motors rating of 9A-10A (no load) and 18A when operating the windows (if they are free of any obstructions), the stall could be at around 32A. 

I may have a circuit layout with relays for reversed polarity motors somewhere in my HD, just need to find it if you need it just ping me. 

I'm a great believer in "40 Amp field relays"  I've used them for convertible top switches that, overtime, simply can't handle the full load, but can easily still function and trip a milliamp relay coil. Using them to "save" the window switches from total burnout is another example of "workaround" ingenuity.  An elegant fix.  Happy day, James

James,

I'm with you if we can add a $2 safety device to safeguard a $60+ switch I'm all for it..! 

Thanks,

[Cadman-iac]

Hey Jose 
   I was having a problem with slow windows on my 88 Suburban a few years ago, and it uses these single winding motors, (which personally I think are junk). Anyway, I was looking at the switch, specifically how they reversed polarity using the same amount of wires as the dual winding motors, and I decided to swap the motors with the double winding motors from an older Cadillac.
To make it work, I had to rework the switch by removing the ground circuit on the back of the switch for each door I converted, and add a ground wire from the motor to the door shell. The switch then supplies the positive 12V through either winding directly to ground for each direction.
Since I only had an issue with the front doors, I left the rear doors alone. So my master window switch is a hybrid of both designs now.
But as luck would have it, over time the front windows have slowed down again, and I believe it's the switch that's not able to supply the amperage to allow the motors to operate at peak efficiency.
Your work around may just be the fix I need for this.

Let me ask you, did you need to run a new, larger power wire to each one, or was your original wire able to supply enough amperage?
And, were slow motors/windows ever a problem for you, or were you just concerned with protecting the switches?
  The relays I've been using for everything are SPDT rated at 50A NC and 40A NO, using the same  circuit design as yours, 30, 85, 86, 87, and 87a. The only issue I have with these is where they're made, china, but I've not been able to find any made here. I'm not wild about using them on my Cadillac.
  Thanks, Rick

[J. Gomez]

Let me ask you, did you need to run a new, larger power wire to each one, or was your original wire able to supply enough amperage?
And, were slow motors/windows ever a problem for you, or were you just concerned with protecting the switches?
  The relays I've been using for everything are SPDT rated at 50A NC and 40A NO, using the same  circuit design as yours, 30, 85, 86, 87, and 87a. The only issue I have with these is where they're made, china, but I've not been able to find any made here. I'm not wild about using them on my Cadillac.
 

Rick,

Since I did all of the hardness re-wire on my car I've also upgraded to a larger gauge wire for all of the long run power sources, so the main +12V "red" wire for the windows hardness is 12 gauge up to the switches versus the old 14 gauge.

Since I recondition all of the motors and the windows channels were also redone these were not an issue, the switches were finicky even after recondition them as well. Sometime they worked fine other times I had to apply a bit of pressure as the motor were a bit slow, but jumping the connector(s) the motor and windows were fine.

Well I'm impartial on were these are manufacture as long as they are functional, I tend to go a bit higher in the rating just to be in the safe side, just in case a 30A on their side is actually 20A on our side.
Even if a product is advertised as "Made in the USA" one has to read the fine print to notice package here but made in some other place.   

[Cadman-iac]

Rick,

Since I did all of the hardness re-wire on my car I've also upgraded to a larger gauge wire for all of the long run power sources, so the main +12V "red" wire for the windows hardness is 12 gauge up to the switches versus the old 14 gauge.

Since I recondition all of the motors and the windows channels were also redone these were not an issue, the switches were finicky even after recondition them as well. Sometime they worked fine other times I had to apply a bit of pressure as the motor were a bit slow, but jumping the connector(s) the motor and windows were fine.

Well I'm impartial on were these are manufacture as long as they are functional, I tend to go a bit higher in the rating just to be in the safe side, just in case a 30A on their side is actually 20A on our side.
Even if a product is advertised as "Made in the USA" one has to read the fine print to notice package here but made in some other place. 

Increasing the size of wire for the windows is a good idea. I don't remember if I had done that when I made my new harness, I'd have to dig it out and check it out again to know for sure.
  I have already gone through the window motors, and replaced the wiring from the windings to the connector. The windings themselves were fine.
  The glass channels will also be replaced when I get that far.
I think my window switches are in good shape after going through them. I had two different designs, and I'm guessing that it's due to a first and second design. I picked the one that looked more reliable and went through all of them. And I still have the other set as backup if necessary.

  Yes you must read the package. Some sorry SOB decided that to make a buck they could slap a flag on it and claim that it was made here, with "from foreign and domestic parts" in fine print. And the percentage of US made content only had to be something like 30%. Disgusting and should be illegal!! But hey, what do I know!!

  Rick