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High School Reunion with 1967 Sedan DeVille

Started by savemy67, December 07, 2014, 11:57:13 PM

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savemy67

Hello all,

I am new to the forum (but not to Cadillacs) and I wanted to introduce myself and my new project.  My name is Christopher Winter and I live in Catonsville, Maryland (suburb of Baltimore).  I recently acquired a 1967 Sedan DeVille hardtop.  It is in reasonably good shape, and I believe it was reasonably priced.  I looked at a lot of "rust buckets" before finding this '67 on Craigslist.  In high school I drove a '65 Calais, and a '67 Sedan DeVille hardtop with a white body and black vinyl roof.  My new '67 has a white body and a black vinyl roof so this project is like a high school reunion for me.  This is my first post to this forum so I won't know if the pictures I will attach, will actually do so.

There are some rusty areas on the car that will need some metal repair, and the car will need to be repainted.  Originally the car was Persian Ivory.  It is now suffering from a bad paint job (white) over the original paint.  I am not a big fan of the Ivory so I plan on painting the car another '67 Cadillac color - one of the reds, blues, or grays.

I will do most of the work myself as I have been tinkering with cars for many years and am willing to undertake any automotive chore.  I was written up in the April 16, 1979 Honolulu Star Bulletin for my body-off-frame restoration of a 1960 Chevy Impala convertible.  My recently acquired '67 will not initially get the body-off-frame treatment - it does not need it, and I do not have the space.  Unfortunately, my one-car garage cannot accommodate the '67 so I have to work outside when the weather cooperates.  Being that the temperatures are currently in the 40's, I'll probably get to work on the car one day a week until the Spring.

The car is operable.  The person from whom I bought the car had rebuilt the carburetor, and installed a new fuel pump and filter.  When I picked up the car it was below freezing.  I depressed the gas pedal once, the choke engaged, and the car started.  After a minute, I tapped the throttle and the idle stepped down just like it is supposed to - so far, so good.  I have driven it around the block and it shifts smoothly.  Since I have titled it, but not registered it, I can't drive very far without risking a stop by the police.

The odometer reads 90563 miles.  The car has six-way power front seat (working), power windows (working), power door locks (working), power front vent windows (motors work but vents do not rotate), tilt-telescope steering wheel (working), 3 speed windshield wipers (not working), AM-FM stereo radio (working), power antenna (not working), Automatic Climate Control (compressor engages but the outside temperature is too cold to test), cruise control (not tested), Autotronic Eye (working), the clock, cigarette lighters, interior lights, trunk release and closing mechanism, and parking brake vacuum release all work.  There are no tears in the upholstery or headliner.  One of the four wheel covers is dinged.  Front passenger wheel opening molding is dinged.  Rear bumper is dinged, but most of the stainless and chrome is in good shape.  The windshield has a light wiper blade scratch on the passenger side.  The rest of the glass is intact  All the exterior lights work except the turn signals - might be a bulb, fuse, or flasher.  The emergency flasher also does not work (I seem to recall this is a separate flasher).  I have the shop manual and the Fisher Body manual, but I need a magnifying glass for the wiring diagrams.

Other than a different than original color, I plan to keep the car as original as I can.  I just watched tonight's 60 Minutes segment on Stradivarius violins - the Cadillac of violins so to speak.  I know my '67 will never be worth ten million dollars, but I like to think that I can get my '67 in good enough condition so that it will be around for another 47 years.  I like the idea of preserving the past as a means of conveying to future generations what came before them (I am posting this message on Pearl Harbor Day).

I am going to treat myself to a CLC membership for Christmas.  If there are any forum members in my area who would like to see my car in person, or if there are any forum members in my area who need a hand pulling an engine, or a body, or any other chore, send me an email.

Christopher Winter
Christopher Winter
1967 Sedan DeVille hardtop

Bobby B

Chris,
Hi and Welcome Aboard! You'll find lots of Friendly, Knowledgeable, and Experienced people here willing to share. Good Luck with your project!
                                                                                                                     Bobby
                                                 
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

James Landi

Looks like you got yourself a winner!   I owned a 67 Eldorado that I could not garage... just a word of warning, I suggest that you purchase an inexpensive low amperage heater to keep the humidity down in the interior of your car.  Judging from the pictures, it was likely garage kept... in a relatively low humidity environment.  Over time, the interior fascia of my instruments suffered from deterioration from mid-Altantic exposure (that was 30 years ago)--- so like the Stradivarius, you need to regulate the environment to protect that has been saved all these many decades.     Best of luck to you and your beautiful car.  James

savemy67

All,

Thanks for the kind and complimentary words.  As far as I know, the car was garage kept for most of its existence.  I know to whom the car was originally sold and I have the original owner's manual and "protect-o-plate".  The person from whom I purchased the car believes he bought it from the second owner, so that would make me the fourth owner.  Hopefully, when I research the car's provenance, I will be able to authenticate the chain of ownership.

As the car is outside, I have it covered in 2 overlapping layers of waterproof plastic tarps.  The tarps are covered by an Evolution fabric cover.  The bottom edges of the tarps/cover are a few inches off the ground so air can circulate under the car.  I should be able to unwrap the car at least once a week to allow any condensation to evaporate.  James, thanks for the tip about dehumidifying the interior.  The Baltimore area gets very humid in the summer (and very dry in the winter).  I am thinking that an electric closet dehumidifier (looks like a tube with a cord) might work along with a battery powered fan.

I removed the rear seat (cushion and back) yesterday and I am pleased at the lack of rust on the sheet metal in this area.  However, the seat springs are rusty (photos of seats attached).  I am not sure if there is an easy method of cleaning the springs with the upholstery attached.  Any thoughts?  Since the leather and cloth is in very good shape, I do not want to strip them off the springs/frame at this time, so I may just use a wire brush/wheel and paint the springs carefully with a rusty metal paint after masking off the upholstery.  Note the layers of different material in the third photo (image 3282).  From left to right:  burlap with fine interwoven metal, open weave burlap, batting, cloth, foam, upholstery.  How does this compare to Cadillacs of the '50's and '70's?

According to the 1967 Cadillac Data Book, the seats are a combination of leather and cloth.  The cloth is biscuit tufted Duchess, viscose (rayon) nylon, in the color black.  The upholstery is dusty dirty but there are no stains or heavy wear spots.  Leather is a natural material which can be cleaned with a proper leather cleaner.  The cloth is more of a challenge to clean.  Viscose is made from cellulose and water tends to weaken the fibers.  Nylon is made from petroleum and tolerates water very well.  Does anyone know what the percentages were for the Viscose and nylon content of the cloth?  Can anyone recommend a good upholstery cleaner?  Thanks.

Christopher Winter
Christopher Winter
1967 Sedan DeVille hardtop

James Landi

Hi Christopher...

Regarding the interior, I urge you to ask the question on the "Restoration" blog... perhaps under a topic such as ... "Persevering and Cleaning 1967 era interior.." and then simply importing your highly descriptive narrative and pictures from this thread.  Your very correct to be concerned about applying any cleaners, as you can unintentionally create a problem that does not exist,  In the meantime, I think your multiple covers and fiber clothe buffer layer are great ideas.  Also, don't make the error of starting and idling your car over the winter... you'll create condensation and acids in the engine and destroy the exhaust system.  Fill the fuel tank, take the car for a ten mile drive (at least) and then change the oil and filter and have the chassis greased. Use a bunch of Armoral on the vinyl top... also, use "Ice" mist product on the rest of the car to keep moisture off of the painted and chrome surfaces. I put "Bounce" dryer sheets throughout the in side of the car, trunk, and in the engine compartment to keep mice out of the car... disconnect the battery, and wait for that "First Warm Day in May."  Best to you... James   

Bill Young

Congratulations on Your new Car! Your Body Plate states 01C so your car was assembled the 3rd. week of January 1967. Your car is very well optioned usually seen on a customer ordered car. Dealers did not order cars with that many options for stock. Regarding your windshield wiper switch I would suggest you purchase a can of electronic tuner cleaner and lube and spray it into the switch and then work the switch a lot. I have experienced this with both my 1961 and 1972 that due to long time non use neither cars switches worked properly but doing this has caused both to return to proper function. Good luck.

savemy67

Hello all,

I had a chance to get to my car today and removed the rear carpet to inspect the rear floor.  I removed the rear seat previously and found no rust in the seat area.  I was slightly concerned with the floor as the passenger side carpet exhibited signs of mold/mildew under the rubber floor mat (see pictures).  When I removed the carpet, the jute underlayment on the passenger side was deteriorated and the floor had some surface rust that should clean up easily with a wire brush, and the driver's side was unscathed.  So the rear floor and seat area appear to be in very good condition.

I took a whisk broom to the carpet but I think I will need to shampoo it at some point.  Another layer of jute is adhered to the back of the carpet.  I will separate this layer before shampooing the carpet.  The Data Book states the carpet is 100 percent Nylon and the backing appears to be synthetic or rubberized, so shampooing should not be an issue.  Note the tag that I found under the carpet.  Masland was the manufacturer of the carpet.

James L., your suggestion to post my seat pictures and questions on the "restoration blog" has me confused.  I thought this thread was posted on the Restoration Corner forum.  Is there another "restoration blog"?

Bill Y., I do plan to purchase a contact/tuner cleaner - probably DeoxIT.  However, before using it, my approach to non-functioning accessories will be to do some basic electrical inspection (fuses, wiring and connectors, continuity, etc.) first.

My next task will be to inspect the trunk compartment.

Christopher Winter
Christopher Winter
1967 Sedan DeVille hardtop

Bill Young

Very interesting carpet tag. It states December 1968 and your Car clearly is a 1967. A Dec. 1968 date would be for assembling a 1969 Cadillac? Was the  carpet replaced? it should have an August 1966 thru June 1967 date for a 1967 Cadillac should it not?

savemy67

Bill (and all),

I too, initially thought the carpet label said 1968.  Upon closer examination I believe the red ink on the tag bled so that the last digit is really a 6.  As you can see in the photo, the 19 in 1966 is more distinct than the 66.  The body tag for my car indicates the car was built the third week of January 1967.  The carpet tag indicates December 1966.  This seems logical as I would expect the carpet to be made before the car was assembled.  Imagine - that piece of carpet sat around for weeks(!) before it was installed in the car.  No such thing as "just in time delivery" back then at Cadillac.

Christopher Winter
Christopher Winter
1967 Sedan DeVille hardtop

Vince Taliano #13852

Christopher,

My name is Vince Taliano from the Potomac Region which covers Maryland, Northern Virginia and Washington DC.  Love the '67 SDV!  I used to live in Catonsville and have a '65 Pillared Sedan Deville.  Our Membership Director, Chuck Piel, lives in Ellicott City and has a '67 Deville Convertible.  Small world!  I will send you more info on the Region later but in the meantime, just wanted to reach out and say hello.  If you have any questions or need any local info, please let us know.  Thanks.

Vince Taliano
Region Director
CLC Potomac Region
www.clcpotomacregion.org
Vince Taliano
CLC Potomac Region
www.clcpotomacregion.org (view over 3,000 pictures!)

Rob Troxel

Welcome aboard. For the rusty seat springs, you might use a small wire brush to get at the rust.  I found a split grill brush that worked well. Then carefully brush on a flat black restoleum paint.  I put plastic near the seat fabric side to catch the drips. Be sure to thoroughly vacuum everything too  That should get you by for now.

For the surface floor rust, wire brush it and use POR 15 to coat it. 

Great this car has the power vents !
   

savemy67

Vince, Rob,

Thanks for the welcome.

Rob, I like the idea of a grill brush.  If I can't find a suitable one, I may make one.  I'll post some pictures of what I come up with, as well as what I finally do with the rusty seat springs.

Christopher Winter
Christopher Winter
1967 Sedan DeVille hardtop

Bill Young

Chris, That makes sense about the 1966 vs. '68 on the carpet tag. sometimes photos just do not show the detailed bleeding that can occur over time with moisture. Again beautiful Car.

savemy67

Hello all,

Yesterday's relatively warm weather inspired me to tinker with my car.  I had not started the engine since before Christmas, so I wanted to give it a try to see if the battery was still OK.  The car started after one additional pump of the gas pedal after engaging the choke - not too bad.  I would like to get my car on the road in the Spring, so I have to register it with the Motor Vehicle Administration.  To get the car registered, it has to pass a Maryland Motor Vehicle Inspection which entails checking of various systems like brakes, tires, lighting, latches, wipers, exhaust, etc.  Over the course of the next two months, these areas will get my attention, but yesterday, I just wanted to run the engine, and test it for oil pressure, vacuum, RPM, and coolant temperature, and to change the oil and filter.

I used a lab thermometer to check the coolant temperature.  The attached photos show the thermometer held by a piece of cardboard sitting in the fill opening of the radiator tank.  The close up of the thermometer indicates about 64 degrees C, which is about 147 degrees F.  This was recorded after the engine had been running for a good half-hour.  The temperature seems a little on the cool side.  Prior to starting the engine I installed a vacuum gauge, and an oil pressure gauge.  The photo with both gauges shows vacuum a little over 20 inches of Hg, and oil PSI about 27.  The vacuum reading seems a little low.  This could be due to a few different reasons like my vacuum plumbing or some engine problem.  The vacuum held steady and decreased when the throttle was opened, as I would expect.  At some future point I will get some fittings that will allow me to plumb the vacuum gauge directly to the manifold instead of tapping off an accessible vacuum Tee.

After running the engine for another quarter-hour, I shut off the engine and waited one hour so that the oil would be warm enough to flow easily, but not hot enough to burn my hands.  The oil and filter change was uneventful.  The oil flowed freely from the pan, but it was dirty.  The car was definitely overdue for the change.  After putting fresh oil in the crankcase, I opened the radiator cap.  Much to my surprise, the cap broke into to pieces.  The cap portion, with the spring, was in my hand.  The gasketed portion was in the radiator fill opening.  Apparently, the vacuum formed by the cooling radiator was sufficient to cause my old cap to break into two pieces.  I had not noticed that the cap was in such poor shape, but looks can be deceiving.  I also noticed that the upper radiator hose had collapsed.  Again, the hose looks OK, but I do not know its age.  So I have added a few things to my shopping list:  radiator cap, upper and lower hoses, and a thermostat.

The photo with just the oil pressure gauge shows a PSI of just under 35.  This photo was taken after the oil and filter change.  The engine was probably not as warm as when the oil pressure was checked before the oil change, but the engine was not cold.  Regardless of the engine and oil temperature, PSI near 27 and 35 at idle seem to be too high based on the 67 Shop Manual which states on page 6-142 that  average idle oil PSI should be 10, and that up to 30 MPH, minimum oil PSI should be 30-35.  I think the manual reference is somewhat ambiguous.  I interpret "to 30 MPH" as meaning from 0 MPH to 30 MPH.  I interpret 0 MPH as idle.  For the moment, I would rather have relatively higher PSI than lower.  I know I need to tune the carburetor.  Curb idle is about 700 RPM, and it should be closer to 500.  I do not think that 200 RPM would have a significant effect on oil PSI (lowering RPM by 200 will probably not decrease idle oil PSI to 10 from 27-35).  Based on my experience, any post-splash lube, non-insert-bearing, non-high-performance GM V8 operates well with oil pressure in the 30-40 PSI range.

My 67 429 has about 93,000 miles on the odometer.  I used an AC Delco PF24 filter which was filled with fresh oil before installation on the engine.  I used a total of 4 1/2 quarts of Super Tech 10w-30 (including the amount in the filter), and 1/2 quart of Marvel Mystery Oil.  The coil to distributor wire was disconnected while starting until oil pressure was obtained at the gauge.  For those of you with mechanical oil pressure gauges and 1949 and later engines, what are your pressures (oil that is).

Christopher Winter
Christopher Winter
1967 Sedan DeVille hardtop

James Landi

Frankly, I think you're really in great shape.  Idling an engine does not really get it up to the limits of heat generated during 95 degree day with your air conditioner running full blast, and you and your family are stuck in city traffic... so the oil pressure will definitely fall -- a slightly higher curb idle will affect an increase in oil pressure...but I would not touch the carb, until you've road tested it in spring/summer weather. You might have it at 500 rpm sitting in the garage, but you could cause the engine to stall when up to "real world conditions" this summer The vacuum on that engine may be spot-on, and the fact that it's a smooth needle reading as you move up the accelerator is a terrific signal that your valve train and seats are in perfect condition-- you might wish to explore all the engine diagnositic that are possible with that gauge.  Also, you can open the distributor cap on that engine, and peek in and watch your vacuum advance at work IF there is a visible dwell adjust "door" on the cap. Engine temp on the cool side at 147 is about right.  However, and here's my "shade tree mechanic side advice"-- that cooling system, if it's original, all of its component hoses, fluids, etc must be changed, especially if you find you're using the car in Baltimore summer traffic.  So I would suggest you have the radiator professionally cleaned, or ask on this site how to make sure that  crud is out of the inside... make sure air flow to the ac condenser is clean...you don't want to blow a radiator in 695!

savemy67

James,

If my radiator blows on 695, it won't make a difference because I'll probably be at a dead stop in traffic anyway :)

Seriously though, I am considering having the radiator cleaned out.  As I was taking the radiator's temperature, I looked into the fill opening at the top of the right tank and could see a few rows of the radiator core tubing.  Since the radiator is a cross-flow (left and right tanks as opposed to top/bottom), I could see the coolant flowing through the tubes from the left tank to the right tank.  Some tubes flowed more volume than others so I suspect the radiator is not capable of 100 percent efficiency.  Finding a good shop will be more difficult than removing the radiator.  I will be attending the Potomac Region CLC membership meeting next Sunday and will make some inquiries as to a good shop.

My distributor does have the dwell "door" (one of the greatest inventions since the wheel), but I am not to keen on contorting myself to watch the exciting adventures of my vacuum advance through the door.  A timing light and my vacuum gauge will have to suffice for that kind of automobile entertainment.  A vacuum gauge is a great diagnostic tool.  There is a large fitting and hose on my manifold, behind the carburetor, that I will probably re-plumb with a Tee so I can attach my vacuum gauge whenever I am working on the engine.  Even though I tapped into an existing Tee several inches from the manifold, my vacuum gauge was as steady as a rock and when it moved with the opening of the throttle, it moved smoothly with no needle fluctuation.

As far as temperature and oil pressure are concerned, I agree that I will have to get my car on the road and really warm it up (maybe a Sunday drive around 695 - 47 miles) before drawing any more definitive conclusions.   I am not too disappointed with the readings I got yesterday.  I consider yesterday's oil/filter change a cleaning change.  I will leave the oil/filter in the engine until the car's first thorough warm-up drive and change it thereafter.

Christopher Winter

Christopher Winter
1967 Sedan DeVille hardtop

James Landi

Christopher, I did mention the vacuum advance because these beasts will run ok even if the advance is stuck or has a rupture.  I use the shade tree method of checking, if it's too much of stretch to visually see it-- just attach a length of hose to it, and with the cap off, suck on the hose... you can get it to  move just a little with the vacuum you create, and you'll know for certain if there is a rupture in the can.  With a working advance, you'll get a nice, crisp acceleration as well as much better gas mileage (relative to a bad vacuum advance).  I recall that when I discovered my 67 Eldorado had a bad advance, and I replaced it, I felt like I had a much better running car.  Regarding cleaning the radiator, I entirely agree with you about finding an honest repair shop, especially difficult if you come in with a forty-six year old car.  THe likely restriction on those internal passages is scale from tape water...usually calls for a chemical bath to remove this stuff, and as you can well imagine, the lose of even a fraction of the cooling capacity can be a massive failure.  Might also wish to check in on the thermostatic clutch fan, if your car has one.  My 67 did.   

David King (kz78hy)

If you need a parts car, there is a white '67  4 dr. on a used lot here marked at $3500.
I am in Milford, MI.  The car has been there for months.  To rough for me to be interested, but seems complete.

David
David King
CLC 22014  (life)
1958 Eldorado Brougham 615
1959 Eldorado Brougham 56- sold
1960 Eldorado Brougham 83- sold
1998 Deville d'Elegance
1955 Eldorado #277
1964 Studebaker Commander
2012 Volt
CLCMRC benefactor 197

Director and Founder, Eldorado Brougham Chapter
Past President, Motor City Region

Rare Parts brand suspension parts Retailer via Keep'em Running Automotive

savemy67

David,

Thanks for the information.  My 67 is in good condition so I am not in need of a parts car.  Eventually I may need a trim or bumper part, but I think I can obtain those pieces without buying an entire car.

James,

I probably misunderstood your reference to the distributor vacuum advance.  I did not interpret it as a diagnostic.  Whenever I need to check a vacuum diaphragm, I usually suck on the can.  With the distributor in the car I would, as you suggested, use a length of hose to see if the diaphragm held.  Speaking of sucking on cans, after a hard day's work on my car, there is usually a cold can in the ice-box on which I enjoy sucking.  How long ago did you reside in MD, and where did you live?

Christopher Winter
Christopher Winter
1967 Sedan DeVille hardtop

James Landi

Hi CHristopher--- probably best to do this on email:  jglandi@aol.com-- we lived on the Gilman School campus from 1980-85... will provide more personal details if you wish... James