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Why is my rear driver side hanging low

Started by Finndorado, October 31, 2020, 08:16:21 AM

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Finndorado

Hello experts

-73 Eldo conv. has air shocks, manually fillable from one valve parallel for both.
I have tried to run them empty and full many times but allways the driver side is lower.
I don`t think the lower side is leaking because it stays in that same level.
Is the matter in the shock or the coil spring ? Should I change both ?
How about front (I`ve had the car just for few months) ?
What brand or type and where shoud I buy them, I like soft and smooth ride.
Is there any things I should pay attention to, for example with the coil spring compressors type etc.

Btw
came to my mind that should I just separate the shocks by assembling another valve, so that both are filled separately to same level,
or does it eliminate some leveling features driving in curve etc. ?

Thanks guys
Mika

1973 Eldorado convertible

fishnjim

Always measure(ruler) the ground clearance from a level surface, so there's no perception difference.   Take a level to whatever surface your viewing/measuring from.   A rut, low spot. lean could exaggerate.   I'd check, rotate, balance the tires to make sure it's in the rear suspension.

Common on low vehicles to install rear air adjustable shocks for clearance.   If you don't know how old the "air" shocks are, it's a rather inexpensive bolt in replacement to change.   I'm brand loyal, so suspect there's only brand differences to what's available at your local parts dealer.   Usually with air adjusts, since the internal pressure changes, the ride changes with lift a little.
There's many reasons why this could be, and no way to tell from afar.   Could be anything from collision damage to a sagging/broken spring/bent rear suspension component.   Caveat emptor.
Depends how bad it is, how much effort you'll want to apply.   Unless something's broken, probably won't affect much except appeal.   There are some "cheap tricks" but need to diagnose the issue.
I suggest to take to a competent garage put on a lift for diagnosis/est. cost to repair.




TJ Hopland

Getting a measurement from a frame point like what is in the manual is a good idea.  You could have a body panel or bumper that is throwing things off at least in perception.   

The other thing that could have happened is at some point in its life it sat on an uneven surface or had a flat tire or two.    Maybe it was owned by a overweight encyclopedia salesman that like to keep all his samples and inventory on the drivers side?

I think it was my 75 that was bad when I got it and I bought new springs which was a total waste of money.   It was still crooked and if there was an air problem the bumper would be on the ground.   What I ended up doing (other than returning the worthless springs) was swapping the originals side to side.   That helped but I also had to adjust the torsion bars a bit.   If your car has ever seen salt or got wet very often you will want to pre soak the adjuster bolts and jack it off the ground to take some of the pressure off when you adjust them.
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

KOKNEYELDO

I have a 75' Eldo and during very recent restoration decided to do an extensive clean up on the engine bay and front and rear suspension.

The rear shocks were not sagging, but found the bushings were in very poor shape.

Plus the air-lines had been destroyed by time and mice over time.

I bought a pair of "KYB" shocks and they work great.

The original shocks were cleaned and they still operate very well with no leaks.

--------

On the front I installed pair of "KYB" air shocks and they work great.

--------

Anyone know where I can find new rear bushings, air-lines and flanged connectors?
Present cars:

1975 Cadillac Eldorado convertible
1957 Ford Thunderbird
2007 Jeep Commander Overland
2018 Audi A3

Come On You Blues!

Big Fins

Make sure your front measurements are proper. The torsion bars are simple to adjust. But, you will also need a front end alignment after raising/lowering the torsion bars. I replaced the rear springs on my car and it made a world of difference. Believe it or not, the shock are still the Delco shocks and they don't leak air at all. Original? I don't honestly know. But, I would assume so at 37,000.
Current:
1976 Eldorado Convertible in Crystal Blue FireMist with white interior and top. (Misty Blue)
1969 Fleetwood Brougham in Chalice Gold FireMist with matching interior and top. (The Old Man) SOLD!

Past and much missed:
1977 Brougham de Elegance
1976 Eldorado Convertible
1972 Fleetwood Brougham
1971 Sedan de Ville
1970 de Ville Convertible
1969 Sedan de Ville
1959 Sedan deVille

Finndorado

OK, thanks guys.
It`s not a matter of perception, and it has to be something more than adjusting.
Since I live in Finland you cannot get most parts here, you have to buy the most from US
and every order takes time... otherwise it would be easy just to change shocks, and then springs next day if it did`t help.

Anyway I did put few pictures so one can see the difference between the hubcaps.

Mika
1973 Eldorado convertible

KOKNEYELDO

Fin, lowering the rear end looks really good!
Present cars:

1975 Cadillac Eldorado convertible
1957 Ford Thunderbird
2007 Jeep Commander Overland
2018 Audi A3

Come On You Blues!

The Tassie Devil(le)

Mika,

I would be checking out everything underneath for any misalignment, bending, or fractures, and if nothing there, swapping the rear coil springs from side to side.

Than if nothing happens there, I would be adjusting the front torsion bar on the low side to increase the ride height, or adjusting the other torsion bar to decrease the ride height.

On my '72 Eldo, I had to increase the ride height on the Left side as we drive on the Left side of the road, and with me sitting on the Left side, (Still LHD), this accentuated the leaning of the car to the left.

Going around a right hand corner, the car would really sag to the left, but this is not as much of a problem when the driver is placed towards the centre of the road, as in a LHD country.

Plus, to make handling even better, I installed a rear Sway Bar, which really enhanced the handling performance.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

TJ Hopland

Ya that is a major difference.   I don't think mine was that bad.   I would be doing a careful inspection looking for some sort of damage or abuse.    It would have had to sit for a very long time on an uneven surface and have to have a flat tire or two to get that bad.    Even then the air shocks should have been able to get it a lot closer. 

How is the front?
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Matti R

Terve Mika,

Is the rear moving up and down when you change the air pressure in the rear shocks?
Best regards,
Matti
CLC #33333
67 DeVille convertible Sudan beige
79 Seville
64 Sedan DeVille
66 Calais Coupe

Finndorado

Hi, and thanks for your answers !

Bruce
I have to check for damages etc. (if my green eye can notice something) but because it seems that issue gets
worse while standing, does it tell something ? (shocks have air bleed and level difference get worse when low pressure ?)
Does the torsion bar adjusting effect rear hight, and that much ?
I might rather get new springs than swipe them.. and do the same with shocks also if needed..
That sway bar sounds very good idea ! Is it an easy thing to assembly and where did you buy yours ?

TJ
As far as I know, it has been on an even surface for years, and it was not bad when I bought it 3 months ago.
Yes, front is ok.

Matti
Yes, the whole rear went up and down when I drained and filled the air shocks, but I did not inspect at the level
difference when drained, have to do it.

My unexperienced guess is that the spring is just tired, and maybe gets worse if shocks or lines bleed and make
the difference bigger when pressure is low ?
Pictures are from the day I bought the car, look at hub cab levels (then the shocks may have had high pressure).
Tomorrow I will go to the garage and fill the shocks and see if the difference gets smaller.

Mika
1973 Eldorado convertible

TJ Hopland

Yes I think I would start by making sure there is no air in the shocks so know there are not any issues.   I think I would maybe even go as far as disconnecting the lines at the shocks themselves just to make sure there isn't an issue or debris in the lines causing an imbalance.   Maybe there is a little chunk of dirt acting as a check valve so every time you hit a bump the low side pushes more air to the high side and the dirt acts like a valve and keeps it there?   

If the car sits level at that point you know its related to the shocks and their air supply. 
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

TJ Hopland

And I was thinking that 75 was maybe the only year they came with a sway bar so you may already have one.
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Finndorado

Quote from: TJ Hopland on November 03, 2020, 01:17:32 PM
Yes I think I would start by making sure there is no air in the shocks so know there are not any issues.   I think I would maybe even go as far as disconnecting the lines at the shocks themselves just to make sure there isn't an issue or debris in the lines causing an imbalance.   Maybe there is a little chunk of dirt acting as a check valve so every time you hit a bump the low side pushes more air to the high side and the dirt acts like a valve and keeps it there?   

If the car sits level at that point you know its related to the shocks and their air supply.

Good idea that dirt valve TJ !
I will see if both shocks go to bottom when empty.
Mika
1973 Eldorado convertible

Finndorado

Quote from: TJ Hopland on November 03, 2020, 01:18:23 PM
And I was thinking that 75 was maybe the only year they came with a sway bar so you may already have one.

But mine is -73
1973 Eldorado convertible

The Tassie Devil(le)

This is how low the front gets with the Torsion Bars at their lowest point.   (I did this to gain height inside the container.  Got even lower by removing the tyres from the rims and ran the car in on the rims riding on a 2" x 2" RHS "rails")

As for the rear Torsion Bar, I made my own with parts from a Holden Vectra, and a bit of fabrication.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Finndorado

Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on November 03, 2020, 07:05:40 PM
This is how low the front gets with the Torsion Bars at their lowest point.   (I did this to gain height inside the container.  Got even lower by removing the tyres from the rims and ran the car in on the rims riding on a 2" x 2" RHS "rails")

As for the rear Torsion Bar, I made my own with parts from a Holden Vectra, and a bit of fabrication.

Bruce. >:D

Ok, Bruce

I have springs for rear suspension, did you replace yours with a torsion bar ?
Or is that the sway bar, or are they same thing ?
I can note that that was not a plug and play thing :)

Mika
1973 Eldorado convertible

The Tassie Devil(le)

Mika,

The pictures are the Sway Bar, which I accidentally described as a Torsion Bar, which it actually is.   Or Anti Roll Bar.

It is placed in addition to the original coil springs, and the Air Shockers, and controls the rolling movement of the car on cornering.

Definitely not Plug and Play, but "hold it up to see if it might fit, then play with the various ways to create the 4 mounting points, then, plug in the electric drill, welder, and in the end, paint."

I used all the pieces from the Holden, and had to make mounts tough enough to not break.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Cadman-iac

#18
Mika,

I would really double check your measurements with the car on a perfectly level and smooth surface.
The problem with just one corner of the car being low, is that unless the car is twisted, the opposite corner should measure as being high, or the same side in the front should also measure lower.
How well does the top line up with the windshield frame when you put it up? If it requires you to move it some in order to latch it down, that would be an indication that the car may be sprung out of shape, twisted, or bent someplace.
How does it look from the front and the rear? Does it appear to be low on one side on either end? If the car is not twisted, the right side in the front should look high, or the left side should also look low from the front.
If opposite corners are off, then I would suspect a weak spring on the left rear. If it's low on the same side,  both front and rear, then I would suspect the torsion bar on the left as weak or in need of adjustment, and also possibly a weak spring on the rear.
Just my observations, I hope they may help you identify the problem.

Rick

  Edit:  Just so I know that I 'splained this right,  when I said earlier if the front of the car was low on one side, that is in respect to the factory specifications. If the car is low on the left rear corner, and it's not been twisted or damaged in some way,  theoretically it should be high on the right front,  and that would give the appearance of being low on the left front, but if the left front is at the correct ride height, then it should measure high on the right front, if it was just a weak rear coil spring on the left side.
However,  if you get a measurement for the right front corner that is within spec, then the left front corner should measure lower than the factory spec.
Look at it this way, the car is going to pivot on one of two axis, either on a diagonal from the left front to the right rear  if you have a weak spring and no frame damage,  or, straight down the center of the car from front to rear, and again,  a weak spring can cause this, but it also would mean that the torsion bar is probably either weak or out of adjustment.
I think I have explained this correctly, and hopefully clearly enough.
CLC# 32373
1956 Coupe Deville A/C car "Norma Jean"

Finndorado

Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on November 04, 2020, 05:49:20 AM
Mika,

The pictures are the Sway Bar, which I accidentally described as a Torsion Bar, which it actually is.   Or Anti Roll Bar.

It is placed in addition to the original coil springs, and the Air Shockers, and controls the rolling movement of the car on cornering.

Definitely not Plug and Play, but "hold it up to see if it might fit, then play with the various ways to create the 4 mounting points, then, plug in the electric drill, welder, and in the end, paint."

I used all the pieces from the Holden, and had to make mounts tough enough to not break.

Bruce. >:D

Respect 👍😎
1973 Eldorado convertible